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ArtBest23 · Posted: 01/11/18 6:30 pm ::: A new low for Trump

Today, addressing immigration, he referred to Haiti and all of Africa as "shithole nations" and said once people from Nigeria come here, they're never going to go "back to their huts".

And this is the President of the United States talking like this.

And the White House is defending him as "standing up for Americans".https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-referred-haiti-african-countries-shithole-nations-n836946

jammerbirdi · Posted: 01/11/18 7:52 pm :::

toad455 · Posted: 01/11/18 7:59 pm :::

such an embarrassment.

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Genero36 · Posted: 01/11/18 8:11 pm :::

It's low but it's not new for him. He's always been a bigot and anyone who supports him and look the other way in favor of any of his policies are complicit in his racism.

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I'm all for the separation of church and hate.

mercfan3 · Posted: 01/11/18 9:24 pm :::

When your President calls foreign countries "shit holes" and you think to yourself, "..he's said worse."

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pilight · Posted: 01/11/18 9:26 pm :::

Other presidents have likely said similar things. Time was that not every private utterance or off-hand remark made the front page.

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jammerbirdi · Posted: 01/11/18 9:49 pm :::

The internet of outrage, everywhere, has become too many hard blunt objects bouncing everything off of everyone. A person or group of persons does not have to be a supporter of Trump or complicit in his racism to take a more nuanced view of this comment today.

First, yes, if accurate, it is an unfortunate statement to have emanated from mouth of the President of the United States. But that's the easy part. The rest is not so easy. There is the fact that a president, any president, should be able to speak freely and even this graphically and in a way that is this politically incorrect without it quickly being revealed to the public. What is said behind closed doors in the White House should stay there. Of course, we don't know if the White House itself put this information out there in order to gin up his base so that's another component that has to be taken into consideration.

So then there is the content, which is to say the truth or lack there of that is inherent or not in the statement. And then behind that is the question that can anyone even say that Haiti is a shithole country without a mechanism of scorn and rage rising up and accusing that person of being a racist, a bigot, an enabler of racism or bigotry, someone who should be destroyed online and maybe in real life as well.

So let me say this. I despise Rich Lowry. And I don't know why he hasn't been on TV much (TV that I watch anyway) but I have really enjoyed his absence. But he's on CNN today regarding this topic. And CNN has gone full outrage, for like the 20th time since Trump announced his presidency, wherein every single voice must express the shared opinion that Donald Trump has finally gone too far and that this is the ultimate final outrage wherein we all say enough is enough. Oh, and they also throw in that ONLY the most extreme white nationalist of his supporters could possibly stick with him or (where is my fainting couch?) agree with this latest example of a pure racist's bigotry.

Well. I agree with my new BFF Rich Lowry. So let me transcribe his comments and then I'll address from my own perspective what I think of the content of Trump's comments apart from Lowry's response.

Rich Lowry: This is a vulgar way of speaking. You don't want the president of the United States to talk this way especially if it's going to be repeated outside the room... but the level of freak-out about this I think goes to just how the elite on both the right and the left has gotten so disconnected from common sense on immigration.

These countries he was referring to, they are basket cases. They are disaster areas. And the point he was making in the context of the immigration policy discussion is that we'd be much better off with people with higher levels of education and skills coming here.

So the question comes up why Norway? Uh, Lowry points out that the Trump just met with the PM of Norway yesterday. He points out that people from Norway aren't going to be coming here, by the way, because Norway is not a basket case.

To that, Erin Burnett points out that Norway once was a basket case and its citizens migrated to the central part of the United States and did very well here.

To that, I think Lowry really nails it. Really.

When we had a different kind of economy. We had farming and industry. So many people are stuck in nostalgia on immigration policy, where they think that it's just the early 20th century, forever. You can have a lot of low skill people who want to work hard and they'll be fine because there are endless manufacturing jobs for them. That's not the way the American economy works anymore.

So here's what I think.

I don't know if we really need more merit based immigration wherein we import engineers and other highly educated and also maybe wealthy individuals, in masse, to add to our growing inequality in this country, our growing divide between an educated elite and a desperately ill-equipped, under-educated segment of our population, one that is well represented, I should add, in the populace of our most traditional 'minority', black people, but I am absolutely CERTAIN that we don't need to import more uneducated, unskilled, desperate people from shithole countries who will only end up on the streets here in a cold-blooded country that is right now letting massive quantities of black Americans, native born, rot and die in the streets, every single day. This is not even to mention the lack of opportunities, the traditional educational failures, the inevitable pathways to incarceration that have resulted in the epically disproportionate black male representation in the prison populations. Not even going there.

No. This, for me, is solely about the men and women on the streets. Freezing. Wet. Filthy. Homeless. And yeah, not just black but black to a ridiculous and cringe-worthy degree. We haven't solved this problem. It is all too disgustingly real. We are a nation that has proven that it cannot handle this particular problem. We can't fix it, we can't effect it, it seems, even, in any meaningful way. And it's growing every single day.

So there are countries where people are also poor and desperate. And black. Should we be allowing immigration from those countries? Of course. But should we have a swinging open door welcoming the poor and desperate from those countries? Yeah. Where? Exactly, are they going to be welcomed in this modern United States of America? You tell me.

How many of you people here in this thread live in a major American city? Did you walk or drive past a homeless person today? 50 of them? Were you appalled and did you invite every single last homeless person you saw today home to eat and sleep and share your own home or apartment? No you didn't. YOU can't handle this problem. Your country can't handle this problem. It is everywhere and it's just one ugly egregious example of a broken society in a great nation that is on a long downward spiral.

We should be helping other countries. We should be marshaling the wealth of other well-off nations like Norway to help with world-wide desperation. This is what I would hope from our country. But the truth is that we are so far from solving some of our most basic long standing problems that in so many respects our country mirrors this shit hole countries Trump is referring to. You want shithole? We got shithole.

I have to say. This is a great example. If we fucking can't talk turkey about issues like this we're never going to solve them. We will become a culture of fainting couch meme-makers that are so busy being triggered in some WAY by something that was said that we just stop talking about the most painful of our problems.

And lastly. My god. How many times can the mainstream media do this? How many times can they get on national television and present the information to the American people that the guy in the White House says things that they the media find to be too reprehensible for them to continue normal breathing. Official Washington finds this to be too reprehensible. Republicans find this to be too reprehensible. That, I'm sure, impresses absolutely no one.

Shithole? Seriously. I've been calling countries shitholes my entire life. That hasn't made me any less of an outspoken progressive person who advocates for a more humane world where solutions are found to the age-old problems of inequality and racial and ethnic strife. But a shithole is a shithole. And If you can't handle the word shithole as it is applied to shithole countries then I'd be seriously wondering what the hell you can handle in this life.

Genero36 · Posted: 01/11/18 9:55 pm :::

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I'm all for the separation of church and hate.

Genero36 · Posted: 01/11/18 9:57 pm :::

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ArtBest23 · Posted: 01/11/18 10:58 pm :::

By Daily News cover tomorrow morning.

https://twitter.com/NYDailyNews/status/951609805512331264?s=09

BTW, this wasn't some private conversation, this was a big meeting attended by a bunch of Senators and Representatives. There were cameras and pictures and video. It was public.

tfan · Posted: 01/12/18 2:20 am :::

I agree that unskilled immigration is contra-indicated, and has been for a long time. And I think that about skilled immigration as well. But immigration has been a sacred cow for as long as I have been alive, and I would actually call the whole matter an indoctrination.

We live in a time when:

sambista · Posted: 01/12/18 6:59 am :::

randomly,

love me some ana navarro. she never holds back. bless her heart.

i'd rather gag myself with a fork, knife and spoon all at once than listen to chris cuomo for one second.

so some folks'll say trump's only being real, saying aloud what others are thinking. ok, then let's get all the way real and round up everyone who wasn't born here and send them away en masse, like the nazis did with another group of outcasts. let's see how the well-to-do fare. and let's see how willing trump would be to pay fair wages to a bunch of norwegians to work at his florida properties, instead of the haitians he has there now working for slave wages.

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pilight · Posted: 01/12/18 7:48 am :::

sambista · Posted: 01/12/18 9:23 am :::

PUmatty · Posted: 01/12/18 10:33 am :::

I am really confused by the collective freak-out about this. Is there anyone who is surprised?

Genero36 · Posted: 01/12/18 10:40 am :::

Genero36 · Posted: 01/12/18 11:35 am :::

Time to Say It: Trump Is a Racist

jammerbirdi · Posted: 01/12/18 12:28 pm :::

When people pull out the ‘we’re a nation of immigrants’ stuff I understand why gorillas throw their shit at people.

Randy · Posted: 01/12/18 12:37 pm :::

This is just Trump pandering to his base yet again. He speaks their minds.

jammerbirdi · Posted: 01/12/18 1:01 pm :::

Genero36 · Posted: 01/12/18 1:10 pm :::

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I'm all for the separation of church and hate.

sambista · Posted: 01/12/18 1:38 pm :::

StevenHW · Posted: 01/12/18 1:56 pm :::

Stonington_QB · Posted: 01/12/18 2:40 pm :::

Stonington_QB · Posted: 01/12/18 2:45 pm ::: Re: A new low for Trump

Randy · Posted: 01/12/18 2:45 pm :::

So - on the one hand you deny he said it and on the other you want people to answer the question he asked when he said it.

So I will - why can't we get people from Norway - they probably wouldn't want to come here.

As for the notion that the opposition should get over it - when did the Trump crowd ever get over Obama? Never - they claimed he was not an American. When did the GOP ever get over Clinton - never they impeached him.

pilight · Posted: 01/12/18 2:48 pm :::

Stonington_QB · Posted: 01/12/18 3:00 pm :::

pilight · Posted: 01/12/18 3:16 pm :::

GlennMacGrady · Posted: 01/12/18 3:18 pm :::

This incident reflects one thing that is seriously wrong with our culture, our politics and our media -- a hysterical focus on one noun used by one person in days of meetings on an immigration bill that is of vital importance to this nation. No analytical reporting on the substance of the bill, or on its hugely important economic effects, but just politically motivated clickbait derangement about the use of one vulgar noun.

And an accurately descriptive noun, at that.

Virtually everyone I know has described being in restaurants, basketball gyms, bars, homes, neighborhoods, towns, cities and countries that they have called shitholes or something equivalent. These people were not being racist or xenophobic, but truthful and accurate.

So, so shocking that vulgarity is used to describe various people, places and things in meetings of business men and women, soldiers, Indian chiefs, lawyers, doctors, teachers, athletes, coaches, butchers, bakers, candlestick makers, your family, my family -- and, who knew, politicians too. WOW, WHAT NEWS!!!

The fact is that many of our Presidents have been world-class vulgarians, famously including the military ones, Truman and LBJ. It's just that the press once had the good judgment and taste not to report such irrelevant trivialities. They reported on substantive news.

If Trump said this in front of left wing Democrats, even in private, he was foolish. But the substance of what he was referring to is crucially important to U.S. immigration policy:

Should the U.S be soliciting legal immigrants from among the billions and billions of impoverished, uneducated, illiterate, innumerate, and unskilled people in the world, or should we have a selective legal immigration policy that admits into the U.S. only those people who can contribute quickly to the U.S. GDP rather than to the national debt.

The answer to this question, for any rational person of any political persuasion, should be obvious. The U.S. doesn't need any more bodies to fill up the empty wild west. We can't be the savior for every shit-out-of-luck illiterate in every shithole gin joint in the world. We have enough poverty, illiteracy, innumeracy, and joblessness among our own citizenry. We don't need to import more.

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Genero36 · Posted: 01/12/18 3:49 pm :::

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I'm all for the separation of church and hate.

Genero36 · Posted: 01/12/18 3:59 pm :::

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I'm all for the separation of church and hate.

sambista · Posted: 01/12/18 4:10 pm ::: Re: A new low for Trump

sambista · Posted: 01/12/18 4:14 pm :::

people from countries like norway have universal health care, free higher education, maternal and paternal leave (with job protection), governments that want to protect people and the environment . . . they don't wanna come to a shithole country like the united states.

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no justice, no peace.

Stonington_QB · Posted: 01/12/18 4:30 pm ::: Re: A new low for Trump

Genero36 · Posted: 01/12/18 4:33 pm :::

Overt racism, foolish racism or tone deaf racism. It's still racism.

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I'm all for the separation of church and hate.

Stonington_QB · Posted: 01/12/18 4:37 pm :::

pilight · Posted: 01/12/18 4:43 pm :::

tfan · Posted: 01/12/18 5:07 pm :::

tfan · Posted: 01/12/18 5:11 pm :::

sambista · Posted: 01/12/18 5:18 pm :::

tfan · Posted: 01/12/18 5:35 pm :::

cthskzfn · Posted: 01/12/18 7:49 pm :::

"new low".

Laughing

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stever · Posted: 01/12/18 8:38 pm :::

Howee · Posted: 01/13/18 2:13 am :::

Richard 77 · Posted: 01/13/18 8:49 am :::

To get respect, you have to earn respect. I can't respect this president.

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If you cannot inspire yourself to read a book about women's basketball, or any book about women's sports, you cannot inspire any young girl or boy to write a book about them. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Richardstrek

jammerbirdi · Posted: 01/13/18 11:27 am :::

The “pretty Korean lady” who was actually a CIA analyst assigned to briefing him. Or, as I like to think of it, this morning.

tfan · Posted: 01/14/18 12:17 pm :::

bballgrl · Posted: 01/14/18 9:34 pm :::

Genero36 · Posted: 01/15/18 10:18 pm ::: Re: A new low for Trump

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