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#9 Oregon at #14 UCLA - 1/7/18
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myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: 01/08/18 10:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Gildon is definitely not a five and shouldn't be playing there and should never be matched up against someone 6 inches taller than her...but I like her tenacity in general. Maley and Sabally are more SF than PF whereas I think of Gildon as a PF and that's where she can be useful. I think of McGwire as Hebard's backup and their starters are fine with Sabally playing the four against most lineups, but when they need a 'tougher' interior player I would go with Gildon. It's a nice problem to have - too many big posts, which is also why I expected at least a couple of them to transfer. JMO. As for guards, when Bando is hitting her shots she's a really important piece. When she's not, they could easily go big with Sabally/Maley at the three. I really haven't seen enough of Malley to form much opinion, but in this game, I thought she was really NOT good and shouldn't have been on the floor as much as she was. But hey, Graves obviously knows what he's doing and it's hard to criticize too much. After all, they won. And maybe he thinks it's that important to get Maley some time/experience. It seems like they need to get one more guard some time on the floor as well, but it's nice to see another P12 team looking competitive again.



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calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 01/09/18 2:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

willtalk wrote:
I think if they ever have to face Baylor or Miss State they will have to use her to keep Brown or McCowan from killing them on the offensive glass. Giomi always puts a body against her man and with her height they wouldn't get all those offensive rebounds and put backs. She is also quick enough for help defense against drives. I certainly hope that is the reason Graves gave her those min. He has to realize that sometimes defense is more important than offense.


I don't know anything about Giomi, but I agree that against a team like Mississippi St they need more beef inside and not just for rebounding. I believe that using McGwire and Giomi's 10 fouls to wear down a big, athletic interior player can also pay dividends. As long as Oregon allows more than 1.3 points per possession, as they did against MSU, even their offense will not be able to keep up.


Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 01/09/18 11:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

willtalk wrote:
myrtle wrote:
----------------------------------------------------
I wonder how Gilden got so far in the doghouse. I thought she used to give them some good minutes but she seems glued to the bench. Not impressed with malley.

Gildon is a tweener who was able to dominate her position in high school via her physical strength against smaller competition thus her #37 Hoopgurls rating. At her listed 6'1" in college her effectiveness depends on match ups. Against Miss. St her defensive liabilities were really exposed against Mc Cowan who scored most of her points off her 12 Offensive rebounds. Even though Gildon had Mcowan blocked out McC still had the height to not only reach over her for the rebound but also to score on the put back.
Gildons is the type of player who often hits their ceiling early in high school and ends up just being a back up in college on a team with a loaded roster. When Sabally came into the program she was pushed down the roster.

Mallory's for her height is not really that effective on the low block but when she is on the floor with Hebard she can play on the high post. She is often a liability on defense against quicker teams. She was in the starting line up because she is a good shooter from mid range and beyond. Which helps spread the floor. Once Sabally came into the picture it was inevitable that she would replace Mallory as a starter. Especially when Mallorys defensive liabilities and offensive limitations were exposed against Miss State.

Sabally is a better all round offensive player and far superior on defense. This is what I saw from her in the Jordan classic. Even though she only scored 3 points she impacted the game with her speed and quickness on the defensive end, so that the coaches started her in the second half. I tend to also notice the impact players have on the defensive end of the game.

I was glad to see Graves give Giomi some none junk time min at the end of the first half, even if it was just because of foul trouble on the other post players. She is not effective offensively but she covers a very large area on defense. She is very fast and can get from point A to point B very quickly. She can also run the floor and would have scored on a break away if Sabrina would not have overthrown that pass. I think if they ever have to face Baylor or Miss State they will have to use her to keep Brown or McCowan from killing them on the offensive glass. Giomi always puts a body against her man and with her height they wouldn't get all those offensive rebounds and put backs. She is also quick enough for help defense against drives. I certainly hope that is the reason Graves gave her those min. He has to realize that sometimes defense is more important than offense.


Unfortunately there is NO defense as they continue to zone, I wonder why Wink Looks just like a WA Neighbors situation to me.


bballjunkie



Joined: 12 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: 01/09/18 11:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It seems this conference is on a downward spiral this year. I don’t think they are the only one. Will it affect recruiting if teams just play zone and players don’t really get better.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/09/18 1:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It makes sense to play zone against a team which can't shoot threes and gets most of its points by driving into the paint. Why not?



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bballjunkie



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PostPosted: 01/09/18 2:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So would the excuse be that all the teams in the conference can’t shoot, as that’s all I have seen and all their out of conference teams too.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/09/18 4:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bballjunkie wrote:
So would the excuse be that all the teams in the conference can’t shoot, as that’s all I have seen and all their out of conference teams too.


In general, I think it is a problem in the P12 this year - lack of consistent outside shooting. And that will be a problem for them when they face teams who do have that because their defenses will be more built to stop (or try to stop) an inside or driving team than a hoisting team. Not to say that all P12 teams have the exact same issues....but there does seem to be some things in common.



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willtalk



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: 01/10/18 11:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Gildon is definitely not a five and shouldn't be playing there and should never be matched up against someone 6 inches taller than her...but I like her tenacity in general. Maley and Sabally are more SF than PF whereas I think of Gildon as a PF and that's where she can be useful. I think of McGwire as Hebard's backup and their starters are fine with Sabally playing the four against most lineups, but when they need a 'tougher' interior player I would go with Gildon. It's a nice problem to have - too many big posts, which is also why I expected at least a couple of them to transfer. JMO. As for guards, when Bando is hitting her shots she's a really important piece. When she's not, they could easily go big with Sabally/Maley at the three. I really haven't seen enough of Malley to form much opinion, but in this game, I thought she was really NOT good and shouldn't have been on the floor as much as she was. But hey, Graves obviously knows what he's doing and it's hard to criticize too much. After all, they won. And maybe he thinks it's that important to get Maley some time/experience. It seems like they need to get one more guard some time on the floor as well, but it's nice to see another P12 team looking competitive again.
I was confused by your spelling now I see you were speaking of the 6'2" guard Maley from Australia. I actually thought you were referring to Mallery McGwire and was just using her first name. I have seen games when Maley looked good. I think what Graves see's in her is a versatile hustler who can shoot and run the floor. She is actually a good rebounder as well. What aided in the confusion is McGwire sort of plays like a small forward on offense.

I wouldn't necessarily say even good coaches always know what they are doing. They often have blindspots that it takes a sledgehammer over the head for them to recognize.


willtalk



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 365
Location: NorCal


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PostPosted: 01/10/18 12:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
willtalk wrote:
I think if they ever have to face Baylor or Miss State they will have to use her to keep Brown or McCowan from killing them on the offensive glass. Giomi always puts a body against her man and with her height they wouldn't get all those offensive rebounds and put backs. She is also quick enough for help defense against drives. I certainly hope that is the reason Graves gave her those min. He has to realize that sometimes defense is more important than offense.


I don't know anything about Giomi, but I agree that against a team like Mississippi St they need more beef inside and not just for rebounding. I believe that using McGwire and Giomi's 10 fouls to wear down a big, athletic interior player can also pay dividends. As long as Oregon allows more than 1.3 points per possession, as they did against MSU, even their offense will not be able to keep up.


Coaches often get locked into their game plans, especially if it is usually successful. Graves seems to focus more on offense and that certainly has worked for him. Nothing wrong with that, however it is important to recognize when to make an adjustment, since winning games is more important than staying true to your system. That was my point about his use of Giomi. With her on the floor they lose McGwires mid-range and out scoring which is considerable, but when you are getting killed by the oppositions centers 12 offensive boards that she uses to score with on putbacks it certainly justifies a trade off for defense. Oregon has enough players who can score but no one seemed to be able to stop McCowans 35pts 19 rb's. Giomi would at the least have kept her from getting those over the back rebounds she got over the shorter players. She is also quick enough and covers enough space to have been able to also help on Vivians drives. He ended up having Gildon and sometimes Maley attempting to block McCowans out. She was just too tall and not only pulled down the offensive rebounds but also was able to put them back for scores over their backs. There comes a point when a player just can not make up a height differential.

As I stated before, if they ever have to play Miss St or Baylor ( Brown is even better than McCowan) they will need to use Giomi to negate their Centers. Quickness can mitigate height but only to a degree. Graves probably recognized that weakness watching film, because it appears he is attempting to use Giomi for defensive purposes. He did so at the end of the first half against UCLA.


bballjunkie



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PostPosted: 01/10/18 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="myrtle"][quote="bballjunkie"]So would the excuse be that all the teams in the conference can’t shoot, as that’s all I have seen and all their out of conference teams too.[/quote]

In general, I think it is a problem in the P12 this year - lack of consistent outside shooting. And that will be a problem for them when they face teams who do have that because their defenses will be more built to stop (or try to stop) an inside or driving team than a hoisting team. Not to say that all P12 teams have the exact same issues....but there does seem to be some things in common.[/quote]

Thanks Myrtle, that helps make sense of what I was seeing.


Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 01/10/18 1:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

willtalk wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
willtalk wrote:
I think if they ever have to face Baylor or Miss State they will have to use her to keep Brown or McCowan from killing them on the offensive glass. Giomi always puts a body against her man and with her height they wouldn't get all those offensive rebounds and put backs. She is also quick enough for help defense against drives. I certainly hope that is the reason Graves gave her those min. He has to realize that sometimes defense is more important than offense.


I don't know anything about Giomi, but I agree that against a team like Mississippi St they need more beef inside and not just for rebounding. I believe that using McGwire and Giomi's 10 fouls to wear down a big, athletic interior player can also pay dividends. As long as Oregon allows more than 1.3 points per possession, as they did against MSU, even their offense will not be able to keep up.


Coaches often get locked into their game plans, especially if it is usually successful. Graves seems to focus more on offense and that certainly has worked for him. Nothing wrong with that, however it is important to recognize when to make an adjustment, since winning games is more important than staying true to your system. That was my point about his use of Giomi. With her on the floor they lose McGwires mid-range and out scoring which is considerable, but when you are getting killed by the oppositions centers 12 offensive boards that she uses to score with on putbacks it certainly justifies a trade off for defense. Oregon has enough players who can score but no one seemed to be able to stop McCowans 35pts 19 rb's. Giomi would at the least have kept her from getting those over the back rebounds she got over the shorter players. She is also quick enough and covers enough space to have been able to also help on Vivians drives. He ended up having Gildon and sometimes Maley attempting to block McCowans out. She was just too tall and not only pulled down the offensive rebounds but also was able to put them back for scores over their backs. There comes a point when a player just can not make up a height differential.

As I stated before, if they ever have to play Miss St or Baylor ( Brown is even better than McCowan) they will need to use Giomi to negate their Centers. Quickness can mitigate height but only to a degree. Graves probably recognized that weakness watching film, because it appears he is attempting to use Giomi for defensive purposes. He did so at the end of the first half against UCLA.


Graves Gonzaga teams were much more defensive minded, he used to bench players for slacking on D. I think he knows he has a slow team who are unable to play man to man. It's not like he doesn't have enough players but I don't think he has the players who are capable. They can't handle athletic teams period as there zone is porous and they don't pressure the ball. How many O boards were UCLA getting, they just can't put the ball in the basket.


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