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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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 Posted: 01/08/18 10:35 pm ::: |
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| Gildon is definitely not a five and shouldn't be playing there and should never be matched up against someone 6 inches taller than her...but I like her tenacity in general. Maley and Sabally are more SF than PF whereas I think of Gildon as a PF and that's where she can be useful. I think of McGwire as Hebard's backup and their starters are fine with Sabally playing the four against most lineups, but when they need a 'tougher' interior player I would go with Gildon. It's a nice problem to have - too many big posts, which is also why I expected at least a couple of them to transfer. JMO. As for guards, when Bando is hitting her shots she's a really important piece. When she's not, they could easily go big with Sabally/Maley at the three. I really haven't seen enough of Malley to form much opinion, but in this game, I thought she was really NOT good and shouldn't have been on the floor as much as she was. But hey, Graves obviously knows what he's doing and it's hard to criticize too much. After all, they won. And maybe he thinks it's that important to get Maley some time/experience. It seems like they need to get one more guard some time on the floor as well, but it's nice to see another P12 team looking competitive again.
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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Location: Carson City
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| Posted: 01/09/18 2:22 am ::: |
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| willtalk wrote: |
| I think if they ever have to face Baylor or Miss State they will have to use her to keep Brown or McCowan from killing them on the offensive glass. Giomi always puts a body against her man and with her height they wouldn't get all those offensive rebounds and put backs. She is also quick enough for help defense against drives. I certainly hope that is the reason Graves gave her those min. He has to realize that sometimes defense is more important than offense. |
I don't know anything about Giomi, but I agree that against a team like Mississippi St they need more beef inside and not just for rebounding. I believe that using McGwire and Giomi's 10 fouls to wear down a big, athletic interior player can also pay dividends. As long as Oregon allows more than 1.3 points per possession, as they did against MSU, even their offense will not be able to keep up.
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014
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| Posted: 01/09/18 11:34 am ::: |
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| It seems this conference is on a downward spiral this year. I don’t think they are the only one. Will it affect recruiting if teams just play zone and players don’t really get better.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 01/09/18 1:27 pm ::: |
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| It makes sense to play zone against a team which can't shoot threes and gets most of its points by driving into the paint. Why not?
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For there is always light,
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If only we’re brave enough to be it.
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014
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| Posted: 01/09/18 2:33 pm ::: |
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| So would the excuse be that all the teams in the conference can’t shoot, as that’s all I have seen and all their out of conference teams too.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 01/09/18 4:57 pm ::: |
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| bballjunkie wrote: |
| So would the excuse be that all the teams in the conference can’t shoot, as that’s all I have seen and all their out of conference teams too. |
In general, I think it is a problem in the P12 this year - lack of consistent outside shooting. And that will be a problem for them when they face teams who do have that because their defenses will be more built to stop (or try to stop) an inside or driving team than a hoisting team. Not to say that all P12 teams have the exact same issues....but there does seem to be some things in common.
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For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 1092
Location: NorCal
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| Posted: 01/10/18 11:34 am ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| Gildon is definitely not a five and shouldn't be playing there and should never be matched up against someone 6 inches taller than her...but I like her tenacity in general. Maley and Sabally are more SF than PF whereas I think of Gildon as a PF and that's where she can be useful. I think of McGwire as Hebard's backup and their starters are fine with Sabally playing the four against most lineups, but when they need a 'tougher' interior player I would go with Gildon. It's a nice problem to have - too many big posts, which is also why I expected at least a couple of them to transfer. JMO. As for guards, when Bando is hitting her shots she's a really important piece. When she's not, they could easily go big with Sabally/Maley at the three. I really haven't seen enough of Malley to form much opinion, but in this game, I thought she was really NOT good and shouldn't have been on the floor as much as she was. But hey, Graves obviously knows what he's doing and it's hard to criticize too much. After all, they won. And maybe he thinks it's that important to get Maley some time/experience. It seems like they need to get one more guard some time on the floor as well, but it's nice to see another P12 team looking competitive again. |
I was confused by your spelling now I see you were speaking of the 6'2" guard Maley from Australia. I actually thought you were referring to Mallery McGwire and was just using her first name. I have seen games when Maley looked good. I think what Graves see's in her is a versatile hustler who can shoot and run the floor. She is actually a good rebounder as well. What aided in the confusion is McGwire sort of plays like a small forward on offense.
I wouldn't necessarily say even good coaches always know what they are doing. They often have blindspots that it takes a sledgehammer over the head for them to recognize.
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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Location: NorCal
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| Posted: 01/10/18 12:39 pm ::: |
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| calbearman76 wrote: |
| willtalk wrote: |
| I think if they ever have to face Baylor or Miss State they will have to use her to keep Brown or McCowan from killing them on the offensive glass. Giomi always puts a body against her man and with her height they wouldn't get all those offensive rebounds and put backs. She is also quick enough for help defense against drives. I certainly hope that is the reason Graves gave her those min. He has to realize that sometimes defense is more important than offense. |
I don't know anything about Giomi, but I agree that against a team like Mississippi St they need more beef inside and not just for rebounding. I believe that using McGwire and Giomi's 10 fouls to wear down a big, athletic interior player can also pay dividends. As long as Oregon allows more than 1.3 points per possession, as they did against MSU, even their offense will not be able to keep up. |
Coaches often get locked into their game plans, especially if it is usually successful. Graves seems to focus more on offense and that certainly has worked for him. Nothing wrong with that, however it is important to recognize when to make an adjustment, since winning games is more important than staying true to your system. That was my point about his use of Giomi. With her on the floor they lose McGwires mid-range and out scoring which is considerable, but when you are getting killed by the oppositions centers 12 offensive boards that she uses to score with on putbacks it certainly justifies a trade off for defense. Oregon has enough players who can score but no one seemed to be able to stop McCowans 35pts 19 rb's. Giomi would at the least have kept her from getting those over the back rebounds she got over the shorter players. She is also quick enough and covers enough space to have been able to also help on Vivians drives. He ended up having Gildon and sometimes Maley attempting to block McCowans out. She was just too tall and not only pulled down the offensive rebounds but also was able to put them back for scores over their backs. There comes a point when a player just can not make up a height differential.
As I stated before, if they ever have to play Miss St or Baylor ( Brown is even better than McCowan) they will need to use Giomi to negate their Centers. Quickness can mitigate height but only to a degree. Graves probably recognized that weakness watching film, because it appears he is attempting to use Giomi for defensive purposes. He did so at the end of the first half against UCLA.
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014
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| Posted: 01/10/18 1:05 pm ::: |
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[quote="myrtle"][quote="bballjunkie"]So would the excuse be that all the teams in the conference can’t shoot, as that’s all I have seen and all their out of conference teams too.[/quote]
In general, I think it is a problem in the P12 this year - lack of consistent outside shooting. And that will be a problem for them when they face teams who do have that because their defenses will be more built to stop (or try to stop) an inside or driving team than a hoisting team. Not to say that all P12 teams have the exact same issues....but there does seem to be some things in common.[/quote]
Thanks Myrtle, that helps make sense of what I was seeing.
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 2539
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| Posted: 01/10/18 1:11 pm ::: |
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| willtalk wrote: |
| calbearman76 wrote: |
| willtalk wrote: |
| I think if they ever have to face Baylor or Miss State they will have to use her to keep Brown or McCowan from killing them on the offensive glass. Giomi always puts a body against her man and with her height they wouldn't get all those offensive rebounds and put backs. She is also quick enough for help defense against drives. I certainly hope that is the reason Graves gave her those min. He has to realize that sometimes defense is more important than offense. |
I don't know anything about Giomi, but I agree that against a team like Mississippi St they need more beef inside and not just for rebounding. I believe that using McGwire and Giomi's 10 fouls to wear down a big, athletic interior player can also pay dividends. As long as Oregon allows more than 1.3 points per possession, as they did against MSU, even their offense will not be able to keep up. |
Coaches often get locked into their game plans, especially if it is usually successful. Graves seems to focus more on offense and that certainly has worked for him. Nothing wrong with that, however it is important to recognize when to make an adjustment, since winning games is more important than staying true to your system. That was my point about his use of Giomi. With her on the floor they lose McGwires mid-range and out scoring which is considerable, but when you are getting killed by the oppositions centers 12 offensive boards that she uses to score with on putbacks it certainly justifies a trade off for defense. Oregon has enough players who can score but no one seemed to be able to stop McCowans 35pts 19 rb's. Giomi would at the least have kept her from getting those over the back rebounds she got over the shorter players. She is also quick enough and covers enough space to have been able to also help on Vivians drives. He ended up having Gildon and sometimes Maley attempting to block McCowans out. She was just too tall and not only pulled down the offensive rebounds but also was able to put them back for scores over their backs. There comes a point when a player just can not make up a height differential.
As I stated before, if they ever have to play Miss St or Baylor ( Brown is even better than McCowan) they will need to use Giomi to negate their Centers. Quickness can mitigate height but only to a degree. Graves probably recognized that weakness watching film, because it appears he is attempting to use Giomi for defensive purposes. He did so at the end of the first half against UCLA. |
Graves Gonzaga teams were much more defensive minded, he used to bench players for slacking on D. I think he knows he has a slow team who are unable to play man to man. It's not like he doesn't have enough players but I don't think he has the players who are capable. They can't handle athletic teams period as there zone is porous and they don't pressure the ball. How many O boards were UCLA getting, they just can't put the ball in the basket.
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Looks just like a WA Neighbors situation to me.