RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

The Last Jedi - Spoilers thread
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » Area 51
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Richard 77



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 3845
Location: Lake Mills, Wisconsin


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/25/17 8:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As promised, a fan theory. It is of your own choice on whether to believe or not.

In our human culture, it is said that at the exact moment of our death, our entire life passes before our eyes. And in that one final moment, it is said we find our final peace and contentment before moving on to the next world.

In The Last Jedi, we are with Master Jedi Luke at the moment of his passing into the next world. When he returns/recovers from his ultimate battle with Kylo Ren, He climbs upon the rock he clutches and looks to the horizon. In that moment, he sees the sun of Ahch-to setting across the water. Remember, that film time does not equal real time. When Luke sees the sun setting, Luke has a final vision. Instead of seeing the sun of Ahch-to, he suddenly sees the suns of Tatooine, setting into the water. His look is not one of peace. His look is not one of contentment. His is a look of shock. It is a look of recognition. It is a look of REVELATION. It is the same look he had on Dagobah when realizing that Leia was his sister. It is not the suns of Tatooine he sees, it is not the light or the energy of the Force. It is not the past he sees. It is the future. "Always in motion is the future."

The suns of Tatooine are, as they have always been since their creation. The are the walkers in the sky. They are the Skywalkers. Anakin saw them, he never knew what they meant, except desolation and despair. They and their world created him. Luke watched them as a boy. He wasn't trained in the Force yet to realize what they were, what they represented. The suns of Tatooine are what they have always been: Brother and Sister. And sister has always followed her brother. In Birth. In Death. Even when the sister followed her brother... to Tatooine. (SW IV.)

Luke's vision is one of revelation. Ben Solo and Rey Solo are brother and sister. They are Skywalkers.

"I have seen this power once before. It didn't scare me then. It does now."

The final key to this theory: Ben and Rey are brought together onto Ben's starship by the Force, either by their own will, or by Snoke's manipulation, but they are together, nonetheless. The camera closes in on their fingers as they almost touch. (I do not remember, nor does it matter.) This is the final symbol of their connection. The connection of their fingers is the "KISS" of brother and sister, just as the kiss took place between brother and sister years ago on the planet Hoth.

It is my contention, that Ben and Rey are brother and sister. And brother will be redeemed and die first.

We shall see in Episode IX...



_________________
If you cannot inspire yourself to read a book about women's basketball, or any book about women's sports, you cannot inspire any young girl or boy to write a book about them. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Richardstrek
Hawkeye



Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 567
Location: Houston, TX


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/27/17 8:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So when Han was out galavanting around the galaxy he had an illegitimate kid?

That's a bit of a stretch even for Star Wars.


Richard 77



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 3845
Location: Lake Mills, Wisconsin


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/27/17 9:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hawkeye wrote:
So when Han was out galavanting around the galaxy he had an illegitimate kid?

That's a bit of a stretch even for Star Wars.


The Suns of Tatooine are twins. Ben and Rey are twins.



_________________
If you cannot inspire yourself to read a book about women's basketball, or any book about women's sports, you cannot inspire any young girl or boy to write a book about them. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Richardstrek
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 57601
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/27/17 9:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
So when Han was out galavanting around the galaxy he had an illegitimate kid?

That's a bit of a stretch even for Star Wars.


The Suns of Tatooine are twins. Ben and Rey are twins.


I don't know how you can tell which sun is the brother and which one is the sister



_________________
Make lots of noise
Kiss lots of boys
Or kiss lots of girls
If that's something you're into
When the straight and narrow
Gets a little too straight
Roll up a joint, or don't
Just follow your arrow
Wherever it points, yeah
Follow your arrow
Wherever it points
Richard 77



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 3845
Location: Lake Mills, Wisconsin


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/27/17 11:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
So when Han was out galavanting around the galaxy he had an illegitimate kid?

That's a bit of a stretch even for Star Wars.


The Suns of Tatooine are twins. Ben and Rey are twins.


I don't know how you can tell which sun is the brother and which one is the sister


Supposition. Reverse logic. Symbolism and imagery. Writer's craft. This is after all, theory, but in actuality the suns don't have a gender. But there are too many images, references and symbolic signs throughout all eight films that point to the idea that the sun that sets first over Tatooine represents the male Skywalkers while the one that follows represents the female Skywalkers. Tatooine is a focal point of the Force and in the Star Wars legacy. I wouldn't be surprised if the film makers return there in Episode IX.



_________________
If you cannot inspire yourself to read a book about women's basketball, or any book about women's sports, you cannot inspire any young girl or boy to write a book about them. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Richardstrek
Richard 77



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 3845
Location: Lake Mills, Wisconsin


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/28/17 4:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Allow me to ask this: I have seen news article after news article regarding almost everything about The Last Jedi. Except the imagery of why Luke sees the suns of Tatooine before he dies. Why do fans and more importantly, film dissectors, find this small instant of imagery unimportant that it isn't discussed? Why are the suns in the SAME exact position in Last Jedi as they are when Luke sees them in New Hope, or when Owen and Beru see them holding Luke at the end of Revenge of the Sith? The imagery has to mean something or they wouldn't have bothered putting it in the films.



_________________
If you cannot inspire yourself to read a book about women's basketball, or any book about women's sports, you cannot inspire any young girl or boy to write a book about them. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Richardstrek
Hawkeye



Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 567
Location: Houston, TX


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/28/17 4:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
So when Han was out galavanting around the galaxy he had an illegitimate kid?

That's a bit of a stretch even for Star Wars.


The Suns of Tatooine are twins. Ben and Rey are twins.


Twins? I seriously doubt it. Leia would have 1)recognized who Rey was, and 2) wouldn't have abandoned her as there really wasn't much of an threat between Jedi and Force Awakens. Ben wasn't a child when he rebelled against Luke and destroyed his training center---Ben is obviously older than Rey. It just doesn't hold any water.


Richard 77



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 3845
Location: Lake Mills, Wisconsin


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/28/17 5:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hawkeye wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
So when Han was out galavanting around the galaxy he had an illegitimate kid?

That's a bit of a stretch even for Star Wars.


The Suns of Tatooine are twins. Ben and Rey are twins.


Twins? I seriously doubt it. Leia would have 1)recognized who Rey was, and 2) wouldn't have abandoned her as there really wasn't much of an threat between Jedi and Force Awakens. Ben wasn't a child when he rebelled against Luke and destroyed his training center---Ben is obviously older than Rey. It just doesn't hold any water.


This is what makes theories fun. The controversy. The main question has yet to be answered. What is the meaning of the Tatooine suns in Luke's final image? So many people have focused on everything else in the film except for the sun of Ahch-to turning into the images of the twin Tatooine suns. There's hardly any discussion of this scene anywhere. Trust me, this scene is one of, if not the most important scene of this entire film.



_________________
If you cannot inspire yourself to read a book about women's basketball, or any book about women's sports, you cannot inspire any young girl or boy to write a book about them. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Richardstrek
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7085
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 01/05/18 3:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was thinking about writing a critical essay about The Last Jedi exploring the ways in which the movie deconstructed Luke Skywalker, the Jedi Order, and our assumptions about heroes in general, but never found the time. Luckily, a writer for Tor.com (the major sci-fi/fantasy publisher) did an outstanding job of expressing exactly what I would have.

It is a long essay, but well worth the read if you are into deep exploration of film/literature.

Luke Skywalker Isn’t Supposed to Be “Nice”

Quote:
This is the central theme of The Last Jedi, one that the film tackles with a violent sort of glee. It’s not merely that heroes can make mistakes or occasionally do the wrong thing; the film is examining heroism as a concept, as a systematic construct that binds the very people it should comfort. “Heroes” come with rules and standards, expectations and meaning. “Legends” are not history, they are the stories we tell to elevate history into doctrine.


Quote:
He invites her to learn what it is for herself, to sense its presence throughout the galaxy. And as she observes this balance, the light and the dark, Luke offers her the most important lesson of all:

“The Force does not belong to the Jedi. To say that if the Jedi die, the light dies, is vanity—can’t you see that?”

This is an essential lesson on multiple fronts, but it is also in indictment of heroism and the power granted to those who achieve that designation. The Jedi do not own virtue or good deeds or the key to balancing the galaxy. They are not the arbiters of these things, they do not speak for the Force in any capacity. The stories that grew up around them—the legends—made them believe that they were and they could, and this is ultimately what led to their destruction. Calling yourself a “servant of the Force” at the same time that you are working as the long arm of a government to aid only one side in a gruesome war is well beyond a contradiction, and Luke is in the perfect position to see this long arc for what it is; he caused the same devastation on a smaller scale when he tried to follow their example, losing his temple and students when Ben Solo fell to the dark side.



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 57601
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 01/05/18 8:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luke Skywalker is a fascinating character because he was born out of metatextual friction. Mark Hamill never quite understood the character.

In the original STAR WARS, Luke sees his uncle and aunt incinerated. He watches Obi-Wan slice off a man's arm. He's aboard the Falcon when it comes out into Alderaan's orbit and they find scattered rubble where there were once several billion people. Luke shoots at least 50 stormtroopers. There is no reaction that you'd expect for a boy making his first kill. Later, Luke sees all his comrades in Rogue Squadron aside from Wedge killed by TIE Fighters; Luke then blows up the Death Star, presumably killing about 800,000 to 1 million people.

And there is no trauma, no survivor's guilt, no discomfort with taking life. On one level, Luke was very thinly written. He wasn't a character in STAR WARS; he was an audience surrogate and that audience, as envisioned by Lucas writing STAR WARS as a FLASH GORDON knockoff, was adolescent boys who wanted to imagine themselves having all these adventures and engaging in all these battles. But looking at Luke more seriously, the simplest explanation is: Luke is a killer.

More specifically: Luke grew up in a desert wasteland with little law enforcement, predatory wildlife and people looking to rob, steal and kill their victims. So, at an early age, Luke probably had to learn to defend himself. He had to learn how to hunt, how to fight, how to carry a weapon and how to survive -- and, living in the desert, Luke also became acclimatized to violence and death and accepted it as the cycle and circle of life. Luke probably had to kill people who attacked the farm for its equipment. He must have seen friends and neighbors die. Luke specifically says he used to "bullseye womprats," which could have been for sport -- but I think it's more likely that Luke was hunting for food. Luke must have killed people long before he shot his first stormtrooper.

However, because none of that is in the scripts and George Lucas does not direct actors, Mark Hamill couldn't and doesn't see any of that. Luke Skywalker was a blank slate in the scripts, so Hamill's attitude was to project his own personality into the role. Mark Hamill is a gentle, thoughtful, sweet-natured Californian, so he played Luke as himself. And the result is a fascinatingly multi-faceted character because through Mark's performance, Luke becomes this young survivalist who has developed combat and piloting skills simply to stay alive, but his innate personality is the warmth and tenderness of the actor playing the character. The warrior is who he had to become, but the vegetarian charity worker is who he is inside.

We have an interesting conflict in EMPIRE STRIKES BACK where Luke severs the arm of the wampa with his lightsaber. Mark Hamill was furious when he saw the movie; he'd been told on set that the lightsaber would merely scare the animal away. But the slashed-off-arm was added in editing to liven up the scene. "Luke would never do this!" Hamill protested, worrying that the poor wampa would be maimed, die of an infection or worse, be unable to hunt for food or defend itself against other predators. But Hamill's wrong; Mark Hamill would never hurt a wild animal. Luke would. Luke has had to kill to survive and STAR WARS would indicate he killed people long before he brought the droids to Obi-Wan.

And Hamill not really being in tune with the Luke Skywalker character is precisely why he's the best actor to play him. He's a very nice man in conflict with a very violent role and that, onscreen, produces a fascinating personality conflict between the farmer and the soldier inside Luke and it's what made him so iconic and memorable.



_________________
Make lots of noise
Kiss lots of boys
Or kiss lots of girls
If that's something you're into
When the straight and narrow
Gets a little too straight
Roll up a joint, or don't
Just follow your arrow
Wherever it points, yeah
Follow your arrow
Wherever it points


Last edited by pilight on 03/28/18 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7085
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 01/05/18 12:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Outstanding interpretation, pilight.



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 15767
Location: Queens


Back to top
PostPosted: 01/05/18 1:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Indeed. Now I wonder how another actor, one who did recognize the violence implied in Luke's background, would have played the role. Would the connection between Luke and Vader have been more obvious if Luke showed more signs of enjoying, or at least not not enjoying, the violence?



_________________
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.
Hawkeye



Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 567
Location: Houston, TX


Back to top
PostPosted: 01/05/18 5:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Of course Luke did celebrate his first kill of a TIE fighter when the Falcon came under attack...Han had to bring him down a notch saying, "Don't get cocky."


Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » Area 51 All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin