View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9776
Back to top |
Posted: 12/18/17 9:49 pm ::: Amtrak crash south of Tacoma |
Reply |
|
At least 6 people are dead from the Amtrak commuter train crash south of Tacoma Washingon. It looks like it is going to be the same cause as the May 12, 2015 Amtrak crash near Philadelphia - the engineer failed to slow the train when it went into a curve.
Congress had passed something in 2008 mandating that equipment that would prevent these human errors (and was not new and already used around the world) needed to be in place by 2015. But they extended it to 2018 and may postpone it till 2020.
Besides the deaths and the injuries, the crash could end up costing more in lawsuit payments than it would have cost to install the equipment. Congress somehow limits the damages that Amtrak has to pay from crashes, but they increased the limit to $285 million for the Philadelphia crash. That seems like it would buy a lot of equipment to auto-monitor speeds. In this case, the "positive train control" equipment is supposed to be installed and available on that section of track, but was not being used by Amtrak for some reason.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67122 Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
Posted: 12/18/17 9:58 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
It's a typical government run program. They spend so much money on trains in places where nobody rides them that they can't afford to do maintenance and upgrades where people do.
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
|
|
sambista
Joined: 25 Sep 2004 Posts: 16951 Location: way station of life
Back to top |
Posted: 12/19/17 5:50 am ::: |
Reply |
|
stupid, stupid, stupid. how do you run a high-speed train (in a place that's never had a high-speed train) and not have every available safety measure in place and on line?
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2017/12/a-catastrophic-train-derailment-in-washington-state/548663/
Quote: |
But the new route faced stiff resistance from communities along the rerouted corridor. Some local leaders had specifically expressed concern about the speed of the train, reports The News Tribune, and had called for grade separations to keep trains at a distance from cars and pedestrians. Chillingly, Lakewood Mayor Don Anderson predicted earlier this month that a deadly accident on the new route was only a matter of time. He also criticized the state for not using federal funds to pay for safety improvements. “Come back when there is that accident, and try to justify not putting in those safety enhancements, or you can go back now and advocate for the money to do it, because this project was never needed and endangers our citizens,” Anderson told KOMO News. |
Quote: |
The new Siemens Charger locomotives running on the new Cascades route were equipped for positive train control, the much-touted modern safety system that automatically brakes trains when dangerous situations are detected. But it appears that the sysyem was not yet activated, according to a WSDOT press release. The system was planned to go live corridor-wide in 2018. |
and shame on trump (why do i bother anymore?) for beating his chest about infrastructure spending as his first tweet related to this tragedy.
_________________ no justice, no peace.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67122 Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
Posted: 12/19/17 10:24 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Trump won't do any more for the infrastructure than his predecessors did. Bush and Obama both got massive spending bills that were supposed to be used primarily for that purpose but somehow failed to improve things. Of course if the politicians actually allocated the funds for their stated purpose there would be no justification for the next boondoggle. In short:
Taxpayers = Charlie Brown
Politicians = Lucy
The promise of improving infrastructure = football
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9776
Back to top |
|
calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5167 Location: Carson City
Back to top |
Posted: 12/19/17 11:56 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Already the finger pointing has begun. Amtrak, Sounder (the company that owns the track), local civic groups and politicians, all trying to get their story out first. I certainly can't evaluate the claims, I doubt any of us can. Let the experts do their jobs. I'm sure there are a confluence of issues that caused this tragedy.
|
|
bcdawg04
Joined: 12 Apr 2016 Posts: 582 Location: Seattle
Back to top |
Posted: 12/20/17 12:48 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
All signs currently indicate that this had nothing to do with maintenance or cheap infrastructure. This was the inaugural run on a brand new, poorly designed track. I'm sure there is a lot of blame to go around.
I really feel for the crew and the operator, who were all injured, as well as the three people who were killed, the other passengers, and the I-5 motorists who were also injured. The morning of the crash my co-worker said his friend was on the train and had fortunately escaped with only minor injuries. The fatalities could have been far worse...but it's still three too many.
I grew up in Olympia and I know the stretch of I-5 from Seattle to Olympia really well. I've never taken the Amtrak, but my mom often rides it from Olympia to Portland. The affected stretch of I-5 South remains closed as officials work to clear the trains safely, and then they have to inspect the road for damage. I-5 is the only major North-South route in and out of Seattle. With intermittent closures on eastbound I-90 due to weather, this area kind of feels a bit isolated at this time.
|
|
sambista
Joined: 25 Sep 2004 Posts: 16951 Location: way station of life
Back to top |
Posted: 12/20/17 2:25 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
bcdawg04 wrote: |
All signs currently indicate that this had nothing to do with maintenance or cheap infrastructure. This was the inaugural run on a brand new, poorly designed track. I'm sure there is a lot of blame to go around. |
i've got a bunch of friends around there and watched with interest. cut my teeth at the tacoma news-tribune. (go, huskies! the real huskies!) i don't believe anyone on the freeway was injured, if reports are to be believed. but i also don't think it's true that this was a "new" track. i believe it was either retrofitted and/or connected to the part(s) of the track overseen by amtrak, for the purposes of this run. either way, i would definitely put the positive track control (turned on and functioning properly) under either heading of maintenance or infrastructure. everything available should have been employed for a scenario with obvious contingencies.
_________________ no justice, no peace.
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9776
Back to top |
Posted: 12/20/17 4:21 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
That track is old, originally owned by the BNSF freight railroad and now owned by Sound Transit, but Sound Transit trains don't run as far south as where the crash was. Amtrak and/or Washington department of transportation made some upgrades to the track since the Amtrak trains were planning to run at 79 mph for much of the route, which is faster than freight trains had gone on it. I don't think there has been a definitive statement yet as to whether there is positive train control installed at the location of the crash. Sound Transit has said that PTC is installed for at least some part of their track.
They are talking now about a conductor-in-training that was sitting in the front engine cab with the train engineer to get a view of the route, as the conductor is supposed to have knowledge of the trip. And they are using the word "distracted" with regard to the engineer and a second person in the cab. "Distracted" seems to be a preferred term by the railroads and transit agencies with regard to train engineer caused crashes. I suspect that "distracted" sounds better in court when defending the lawsuits, versus other ways to characterize going 80 mph into a 30 mph curve.
There are cameras (and related data capture devices) that were focused both inside and outside the engine cab, but they are damaged and it is not known if anything can be recovered from them.
Last edited by tfan on 12/20/17 5:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
bcdawg04
Joined: 12 Apr 2016 Posts: 582 Location: Seattle
Back to top |
Posted: 12/20/17 4:42 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
tfan wrote: |
I don't think there has been a definitive statement yet as to whether there is positive train control installed at the location of the crash. |
Locally, it is being reported that this location did not yet have positive train control--but the location is scheduled to within the next several months. The state, however, had financial motivation to open the line this year.
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9776
Back to top |
Posted: 12/22/17 9:19 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Looks like they were able to recover the engine cab video from the crash:
Engineer of Amtrak train was not on cellphone at time of crash
Quote: |
“About six seconds prior to the derailment,” the board said, “the engineer made a comment regarding an over speed condition.” He apparently then tried to brake. |
Quote: |
The report concludes: “The recording ended as the locomotive was tilting and the crew was bracing for impact.” |
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9776
Back to top |
|
|
|