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stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 6918 Location: https://womensbasketballdaily.net
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Posted: 11/23/17 9:13 pm ::: Bay Area update...sorta' |
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http://www.sfchronicle.com/warriors/article/WNBA-team-on-Warriors-radar-once-new-arena-is-12380331.php#photo-14587922
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Chase Arena is scheduled to open for the Warriors’ 2019-20 season, but it’s unclear if a WNBA team would play there full time — it would be a great way to fill dates during the offseason — or if a smaller building would be better suited for most of the WNBA season’s 17 home games. |
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Chase Arena will have a capacity of 18,000, and there are few sports venues in San Francisco in the 11,000-seat range; War Memorial at USF holds 5,300; Civic Auditorium 6,000. The Cow Palace, which holds 13,000 for basketball, might be the best bet unless Chase Arena can be creatively reconfigured to accommodate smaller crowds. |
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32335
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Posted: 11/24/17 12:43 am ::: |
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Hopefully the Cow Palace is not really in the mix. That would be beyond gross. The facility is ancient and you can't get there on BART so it's just shooting yourself in the foot. I don't know how Chase is configured but it seems like it would be better to just close off part of the seating if they're worried about lack of audience.
I guess Civic would be ok to start with, then move up to Chase if they get enough fans, or at least use it for 'big' games like vs LA.
But at least they're talking about it.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22474 Location: NJ
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Posted: 11/24/17 6:53 am ::: |
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It's very good it's being talked about. Don't see why they can't play at Chase Arena. Even at 50% capacity would be good for them.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 11/24/17 9:00 am ::: |
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If they aren't locked into Chase Arena, no reason they couldn't get a team before it is ready. I don't buy that they are too busy building the new arena.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11148
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Posted: 11/24/17 10:23 am ::: |
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Both the Cow Palace and the Civic Auditorium are horrible venues for basketball because of the design and age of the arenas.
When Rick Welts, the president, was hesitant about a WNBA playing at Chase, that was not good news. San Francisco itself (as opposed to the Bay Area) has always had an arena problem, and not just for sports, and given the major traffic issues that have gotten worse in recent years, getting there is an issue. (We live about 25 miles from SF, and drove into the City to visit two museums and go to lunch. We left about 3:20, and it took 90 minutes to get home. We could have driven to Sacramento with time to spare in the same amount of time.)
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24355 Location: London
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Posted: 11/24/17 12:40 pm ::: |
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If the owners of the new arena also owned the new team, it would seem bizarre to rent out somewhere else to play. Practically every arena can curtain off a top tier of seats to reduce capacity to something more suitable if necessary. |
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 2544
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Posted: 11/24/17 1:00 pm ::: |
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I had no idea about Azzi being such a cog here for a franchise or that she was involved in the 2010 discussion about the Monarchs...
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32335
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Posted: 11/24/17 2:15 pm ::: |
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You're in Atlanta. They're in San Francisco. You may not understand the depth and width of politics there...and remember that San Francisco is actually a very small footprint so building something this big is taking up a lot of valuable real estate. [imagine this project in Manhattan] Politics, politics, and more politics...to say nothing of building codes you've never even dreamed about (or had nightmares about).
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9624
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Posted: 11/24/17 10:35 pm ::: |
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Lacob was ready to buy the Sparks in January 2014 had there not been a local buyer. He also said:
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"We are not in a rush to do it because we are focused on our primary business with the Warriors and building an arena [in San Francisco]," Lacob said. "But if the opportunity came along, we would definitely do it." |
But the fact that he isn't being mentioned now about the Liberty makes you wonder if he has changed his mind, or if the Liberty have a buyer lined up (like the Stars) so there is no need for Lacob to step in.
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 4231
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Posted: 11/25/17 12:22 am ::: |
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The expectation that there would be a WNBA team was the reason that I was in favor of this arena and much more in favor of their original location, which was more accessible. That said, we definitely need an arena because we have to be the biggest city in the United States if not the entire world that does not have an arena (the Cow Palace is technically just outside city limits).
Bill Graham Civic Auditorium is actually an auditorium so it really can't host modern day basketball. Even after renovations, War Memorial is essentially a gymnasium so that's out of the question even though it would be very convenient for me. The new arena would generally be an hour each way for me from this side of the city. As myrtle mentioned about space and politics, I am actually still shocked that this arena is likely to be built. Every inch of this city that can legally accommodate housing is being earmarked for that.
I wonder if this is possibly a setup for Lacob and some different ownership group eventually setting up outside the city. Cal could probably use any money and rent out Haas while Maples seems less likely. Both of those places will probably be closer to a larger portion of the potential fanbase. The new arena location is not particularly accessible to people coming from outside the city which is important since a relatively large percentage of residents are not really into sports or any kind. The Giants draw heavily from outside the city and the 49ers did too, which is why there was basically no outrage when they moved.
Remember that Lacob is only a part of the ownership group of the Warriors even though he is the public face. Other owners may not be as enthusiastic as him, especially with the uncertainty of upcoming costs for construction, which will almost certainly be above estimates and luxury tax for the Warriors. It is not as toxic a situation as Vivek Ranadive has with the rest of the Kings' ownership group, which is probably an obstacle for a WNBA in Sacramento in the near future, but any disagreement is likely to slow talk of a new for a while. |
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josephkramer44
Joined: 23 Aug 2016 Posts: 136
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Posted: 11/25/17 12:40 am ::: |
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tfan wrote: |
Lacob was ready to buy the Sparks in January 2014 had there not been a local buyer. He also said:
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"We are not in a rush to do it because we are focused on our primary business with the Warriors and building an arena [in San Francisco]," Lacob said. "But if the opportunity came along, we would definitely do it." |
But the fact that he isn't being mentioned now about the Liberty makes you wonder if he has changed his mind, or if the Liberty have a buyer lined up (like the Stars) so there is no need for Lacob to step in. |
Pure speculation but if there was already a buyer in place then the team probably would have already been sold or the intent to sell to a buyer would have been announced. Instead the team was simply put on the market.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11148
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Posted: 11/25/17 10:25 am ::: |
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From my perspective, there is no doubt that the Warriors are all-in for their new arena. They have patiently navigated the treacherous waters of San Francisco politics, dropped their original site and settled on one more acceptable to the powers that be, and have never publicly wavered from their commitment.
And should the arena be built, as awhom points out, it will be the only arena in SF and thus positioned to do well in the competition with Oracle (Oakland) and SAP (San Jose).
That said, the complexity of the process -- not to mention the construction itself -- will take up a lot of administrative time and energy, and that's the ostensible reason for not pursuing a WNBA team. And when Welts said the new arena might not be suitable to the WNBA, to me that was a major red flag because that seemed like the most likely justification for the Warriors to buy a team.
In short, I don't see Joe Lacob as the white knight, at least right now.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22474 Location: NJ
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Nixtreefan
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63778
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Posted: 11/27/17 1:16 pm ::: |
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Will the Warriors arena situation be significantly different than what is happening with MSG?
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11148
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Posted: 11/27/17 4:37 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
Will the Warriors arena situation be significantly different than what is happening with MSG? |
I believe so, because the Bay Area is smaller in population than greater NYC, and there are three major arenas competing for business ... plus a couple outdoor sheds and parks for big music shows.
So I think the lost potential for those 17 dates isn't as important as the security of having 17 dates locked in. But I could be wrong, and that may be why the Warriors' president is backing off from having a WNBA team play in the Chase Center.
And a Warriors'-owned team will not play in one of the other two big arenas because it would be giving business to direct competitors.
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5155 Location: Carson City
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Posted: 11/27/17 5:47 pm ::: |
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The situation in the Bay Area has some similarities to New York, but more differences. The big similarity is the lack of a suitable sized (10,000-12,000 seat facility.) But the much bigger difference is the way people move around. Californians are, for the most part, slaves to their cars.
I actually believe the ideal facility for a WNBA team would be the Oracle Arena, where the Warriors currently play. It is conveniently located along freeway access for drivers in the East Bay and towards San Jose. It also has a BART station. And once Chase opens Oracle will seriously need dates to be filled. They can block off the top level and have a reasonable sized arena. The only issue is whether Oakland and Lacob have seriously bruised feelings over the Warriors leaving.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11148
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Posted: 11/27/17 5:58 pm ::: |
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calbearman76 wrote: |
The situation in the Bay Area has some similarities to New York, but more differences. The big similarity is the lack of a suitable sized (10,000-12,000 seat facility.) But the much bigger difference is the way people move around. Californians are, for the most part, slaves to their cars.
I actually believe the ideal facility for a WNBA team would be the Oracle Arena, where the Warriors currently play. It is conveniently located along freeway access for drivers in the East Bay and towards San Jose. It also has a BART station. And once Chase opens Oracle will seriously need dates to be filled. They can block off the top level and have a reasonable sized arena. The only issue is whether Oakland and Lacob have seriously bruised feelings over the Warriors leaving. |
Oracle would be perfect in so many ways. The East Bay is the focus of girls' basketball in the Bay Area, and also has a thriving lesbian community. The BART station is right there, it's right off the freeway and there's plenty of parking.
But I can't see a Lacob-owned team playing there when his arena is available.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9624
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Posted: 11/27/17 8:55 pm ::: |
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Wikipedia only says the Warriors arena is privately financed. It also says that there will be office and retail space as part of the project so I don't know if the Warriors are the owners.
This will be the first NBA arena with "broad use" of Personal Seat Licenses (the Toronto Raptors have PSLs for a small number of seats). The Warriors are putting in a stipulation that the PSL's cannot be sold for a profit in the future.But you get your money back in 30 years if you hang onto them. That PSL refund may signify that the Warriors are the arena owners.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32335
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Posted: 11/28/17 12:28 am ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
calbearman76 wrote: |
The situation in the Bay Area has some similarities to New York, but more differences. The big similarity is the lack of a suitable sized (10,000-12,000 seat facility.) But the much bigger difference is the way people move around. Californians are, for the most part, slaves to their cars.
I actually believe the ideal facility for a WNBA team would be the Oracle Arena, where the Warriors currently play. It is conveniently located along freeway access for drivers in the East Bay and towards San Jose. It also has a BART station. And once Chase opens Oracle will seriously need dates to be filled. They can block off the top level and have a reasonable sized arena. The only issue is whether Oakland and Lacob have seriously bruised feelings over the Warriors leaving. |
Oracle would be perfect in so many ways. The East Bay is the focus of girls' basketball in the Bay Area, and also has a thriving lesbian community. The BART station is right there, it's right off the freeway and there's plenty of parking.
But I can't see a Lacob-owned team playing there when his arena is available. |
Oracle is also in the middle of one of the highest crime neighborhoods in the Bay Area. While I like the walkway they've created from BART and with added game security and surrounded by fans, it feels relatively safe....I and others have had adventures both in BART and leaving a car in the heavily guarded lots around there. My SO worked for quite some time at the building trades office directly across Hegenberger Dr and he said they would hear gunshots on a DAILY basis in the neighborhood. Obviously it has functioned quite well for a long time as a sports' venue, but I'm just not sure it is the best place for women's bball. For one thing, with fewer fans, that feeling of 'safety by numbers' might not be there. And maybe I'm just a bit paranoid...
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11148
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Posted: 11/28/17 10:25 am ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
calbearman76 wrote: |
The situation in the Bay Area has some similarities to New York, but more differences. The big similarity is the lack of a suitable sized (10,000-12,000 seat facility.) But the much bigger difference is the way people move around. Californians are, for the most part, slaves to their cars.
I actually believe the ideal facility for a WNBA team would be the Oracle Arena, where the Warriors currently play. It is conveniently located along freeway access for drivers in the East Bay and towards San Jose. It also has a BART station. And once Chase opens Oracle will seriously need dates to be filled. They can block off the top level and have a reasonable sized arena. The only issue is whether Oakland and Lacob have seriously bruised feelings over the Warriors leaving. |
Oracle would be perfect in so many ways. The East Bay is the focus of girls' basketball in the Bay Area, and also has a thriving lesbian community. The BART station is right there, it's right off the freeway and there's plenty of parking.
But I can't see a Lacob-owned team playing there when his arena is available. |
Oracle is also in the middle of one of the highest crime neighborhoods in the Bay Area. While I like the walkway they've created from BART and with added game security and surrounded by fans, it feels relatively safe....I and others have had adventures both in BART and leaving a car in the heavily guarded lots around there. My SO worked for quite some time at the building trades office directly across Hegenberger Dr and he said they would hear gunshots on a DAILY basis in the neighborhood. Obviously it has functioned quite well for a long time as a sports' venue, but I'm just not sure it is the best place for women's bball. For one thing, with fewer fans, that feeling of 'safety by numbers' might not be there. And maybe I'm just a bit paranoid... |
If you park in the pricy Coliseum lot, you're pretty safe, but the neighborhood around the BART station is not the best. And public transit "adventures" are sadly becoming more and more common.
Still, there will be limited parking at the new site (which the Warriors will operate) and so public transit will be necessary there too.
Nothing is ever as simple as it seems ...
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 11/28/17 11:28 am ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
Oracle is also in the middle of one of the highest crime neighborhoods in the Bay Area. While I like the walkway they've created from BART and with added game security and surrounded by fans, it feels relatively safe....I and others have had adventures both in BART and leaving a car in the heavily guarded lots around there. My SO worked for quite some time at the building trades office directly across Hegenberger Dr and he said they would hear gunshots on a DAILY basis in the neighborhood. Obviously it has functioned quite well for a long time as a sports' venue, but I'm just not sure it is the best place for women's bball. For one thing, with fewer fans, that feeling of 'safety by numbers' might not be there. And maybe I'm just a bit paranoid... |
I can tell you'll just love the Mystics new home.
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