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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63872
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63872
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Posted: 11/25/17 11:31 am ::: |
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She might not make it look easy, but UConn’s Gabby Williams gets it there (video at link)
http://wtnh.com/2017/11/24/she-might-not-make-it-look-easy-but-uconns-gabby-williams-gets-it-there/
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Gabby Williams is well on her way to a WNBA career after she leaves UConn. The senior forward can do it all–lead the break, score in traffic, and pass. Williams is fearless with the ball. Her favorite target with the bounce pass is Kia Nurse. |
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014 Posts: 785
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Posted: 11/25/17 12:10 pm ::: |
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That's what I have been talking about, how many players are willing and able to make those passes. Last year she was by far the best of this group of draftees. This year I think without KLS it has become more difficult as they both click and know the game but once she is back the turnovers will go down.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12572 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 11/25/17 1:48 pm ::: |
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If only she could score & had Candace Parkers height she could be something special in this league. Too many question marks in her game though .
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24397 Location: London
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Posted: 11/25/17 3:24 pm ::: |
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"She can do it all - [lists a whole bunch of things that don't include 'shoot']!" |
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12572 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63872
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11187
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11187
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Posted: 11/26/17 1:34 pm ::: |
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Got a courtside look at Tyra Buss vs. St. Mary's College yesterday ...
Buss is a very good college player, maybe 5-6 and slender. Oddly, she doesn't shoot threes well at all and is an average free-throw shooter. She gets almost all her points in the lane, with great body control, the ability to finish with either hand and a variety of floaters.
That said, she has almost no chance to succeed in the WNBA, because instead of going against 6-2 kids who can't jump to score inside, the posts will be 6-4 or taller. And she had at least three shots blocked against a St. Mary's team that no one would accuse of being exceptionally athletic.
A camp invite for the Fever, pretty blonde gets a couple TV segments, but despite her collegiate and high school scoring, it's hard to see her finding a home in the WNBA.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5400 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 11/26/17 4:32 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
Got a courtside look at Tyra Buss vs. St. Mary's College yesterday ...
Buss is a very good college player, maybe 5-6 and slender. Oddly, she doesn't shoot threes well at all and is an average free-throw shooter. She gets almost all her points in the lane, with great body control, the ability to finish with either hand and a variety of floaters.
That said, she has almost no chance to succeed in the WNBA, because instead of going against 6-2 kids who can't jump to score inside, the posts will be 6-4 or taller. And she had at least three shots blocked against a St. Mary's team that no one would accuse of being exceptionally athletic.
A camp invite for the Fever, pretty blonde gets a couple TV segments, but despite her collegiate and high school scoring, it's hard to see her finding a home in the WNBA. |
ClayK, you have been making the same statement for years now. Size and athleticism is what separates college girls from WNBA women.
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5400 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 11/26/17 4:41 pm ::: |
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Dennis Rodman could not shoot the ball at all but he was one of the best defensive players to ever play in the NBA. He helped two teams win several NBA championships. There is a certain WNBA team that I know that can use a relentless and tenacious defender.
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24397 Location: London
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Posted: 11/26/17 4:59 pm ::: |
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Rock Hard wrote: |
Dennis Rodman could not shoot the ball at all but he was one of the best defensive players to ever play in the NBA. He helped two teams win several NBA championships. There is a certain WNBA team that I know that can use a relentless and tenacious defender. |
Hey, I expect Gabby Williams to be a good - possibly very good - WNBA player. It just seemed a little comical to say she 'can do it all' when there's one particular glaring weakness in her game. |
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 11/26/17 5:34 pm ::: |
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Rock Hard wrote: |
Dennis Rodman could not shoot the ball at all but he was one of the best defensive players to ever play in the NBA. He helped two teams win several NBA championships. There is a certain WNBA team that I know that can use a relentless and tenacious defender. |
Rodman was picked in the second round, #27.
Some people ultimately find a niche and succeed. Doesn't mean they should be a lottery pick.
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 2559
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Posted: 11/27/17 10:55 am ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
Got a courtside look at Tyra Buss vs. St. Mary's College yesterday ...
Buss is a very good college player, maybe 5-6 and slender. Oddly, she doesn't shoot threes well at all and is an average free-throw shooter. She gets almost all her points in the lane, with great body control, the ability to finish with either hand and a variety of floaters.
That said, she has almost no chance to succeed in the WNBA, because instead of going against 6-2 kids who can't jump to score inside, the posts will be 6-4 or taller. And she had at least three shots blocked against a St. Mary's team that no one would accuse of being exceptionally athletic.
A camp invite for the Fever, pretty blonde gets a couple TV segments, but despite her collegiate and high school scoring, it's hard to see her finding a home in the WNBA. |
I thought the same thing when I saw her play last year on TV a few times. Nice college player - could see her playing overseas in Ireland or lower level Euro leagues for a few years at most.
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 2559
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Posted: 11/27/17 10:57 am ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
Got a courtside look at Tyra Buss vs. St. Mary's College yesterday ...
Buss is a very good college player, maybe 5-6 and slender. Oddly, she doesn't shoot threes well at all and is an average free-throw shooter. She gets almost all her points in the lane, with great body control, the ability to finish with either hand and a variety of floaters.
That said, she has almost no chance to succeed in the WNBA, because instead of going against 6-2 kids who can't jump to score inside, the posts will be 6-4 or taller. And she had at least three shots blocked against a St. Mary's team that no one would accuse of being exceptionally athletic.
A camp invite for the Fever, pretty blonde gets a couple TV segments, but despite her collegiate and high school scoring, it's hard to see her finding a home in the WNBA. |
I thought the same thing when I saw her play last year on TV a few times. Nice college player - could see her playing overseas in Ireland or lower level Euro leagues for a few years at most.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5400 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 11/27/17 11:12 am ::: |
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If there is a specific player in any draft that a team really want they should not wait to get that player late in the draft but draft that player as early as possible.
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Posts: 6885 Location: Home
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Posted: 11/27/17 11:13 am ::: |
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Kelsey Mitchell
A great college scorer and elite college athlete. She's a poor defender and challenged somewhat in height but is fast and illusive. Is she the player most needed by the Indiana Fever now? She'll be hard to pass up.
*She's a 2 guard who can play the 1, but basically, she's a 2.
*The 2 guard position is the least important of the 5 positions on a pro team, unless the pro team has a full complement of very good to great players at the 5, 4, 3 and 1 positions.
A 2 guard is unlikely to be the main leader and player on a poor/mediocre team in desperate need of talent. In general, a 2 cannot carry a team with few exceptions, i.e., Diggins. But Diggins is a PG and a truly proven leader who can play both offensively, defensively and lead. Diggins has good talent around her.
To play Mitchell at the 1, reduces her offensive output. She can play the point but she's really not a point and would need more training, i.e., Lady Plum. Best PG in the Draft is Canada.
I'm not stating that Indy shouldn't draft Mitchell @ two, but their needs are much greater in the more key positions like the 3, 4 and 5.
Mitchell would work better on a solid team with key player talent, i.e.. Phoenix, Chicago, Minnesota etc. Basically, Mitchell is a rich-mans Epiphany Prince. But Indy needs to start somewhere and Mitchell might be that player.
Who other than Mitchell?
*Russell is a slothful stiff that shoots free throws like Shaq. Definitely no.
*Gabby is a greatly talented athlete, inspirational and can defend well. Is she the best pro prospect? Might be but there are some questions.
*Billings will be a good big/rebounder and defender but currently has a poor offensive mid-range game and no long game. She hustles and is listed as 6'4". Might be able to trade down for her.
*Canada is a talented inspirational PG, a leader, go-getter and plays defense. The best PG in the Draft and maybe the country (college) currently. Don't think she's the most needed player for Indy with January onboard?
*DeShields has not shown leadership, ability to get along with coaches/players and seems contrary and unhappy wherever she plays. Can she change? Could Pokey control her? No coach yet has.
*Nurse is an all-around 6' solid player offensively, defensively, leadership, pro-ready body, trained ready to go. A proven winner world-wide.
Trade possibilities?
Indy has a tough choice. Could depend on any free agent acquisitions.
Mitchell, Gabby, Nurse, DeShields, Billings or trade down/across.
The choice may become clearer in April 2018.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11187
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Posted: 11/27/17 11:32 am ::: |
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Good analysis ...
I think the second half of the question is whether any other player brings more value than Mitchell? In other words, yes, she plays the wrong position, but would you rather have a player who is potentially above average or better at the two, or a player who is potentially average or above average at a more important position?
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16379 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 11/27/17 11:46 am ::: |
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RavenDog wrote: |
Kelsey Mitchell
A great college scorer and elite college athlete. She's a poor defender and challenged somewhat in height but is fast and illusive. Is she the player most needed by the Indiana Fever now? She'll be hard to pass up.
*She's a 2 guard who can play the 1, but basically, she's a 2.
*The 2 guard position is the least important of the 5 positions on a pro team, unless the pro team has a full complement of very good to great players at the 5, 4, 3 and 1 positions.
A 2 guard is unlikely to be the main leader and player on a poor/mediocre team in desperate need of talent. In general, a 2 cannot carry a team with few exceptions, i.e., Diggins. But Diggins is a PG and a truly proven leader who can play both offensively, defensively and lead. Diggins has good talent around her.
To play Mitchell at the 1, reduces her offensive output. She can play the point but she's really not a point and would need more training, i.e., Lady Plum. Best PG in the Draft is Canada.
I'm not stating that Indy shouldn't draft Mitchell @ two, but their needs are much greater in the more key positions like the 3, 4 and 5.
Mitchell would work better on a solid team with key player talent, i.e.. Phoenix, Chicago, Minnesota etc. Basically, Mitchell is a rich-mans Epiphany Prince. But Indy needs to start somewhere and Mitchell might be that player.
Who other than Mitchell?
*Russell is a slothful stiff that shoots free throws like Shaq. Definitely no.
*Gabby is a greatly talented athlete, inspirational and can defend well. Is she the best pro prospect? Might be but there are some questions.
*Billings will be a good big/rebounder and defender but currently has a poor offensive mid-range game and no long game. She hustles and is listed as 6'4". Might be able to trade down for her.
*Canada is a talented inspirational PG, a leader, go-getter and plays defense. The best PG in the Draft and maybe the country (college) currently. Don't think she's the most needed player for Indy with January onboard?
*DeShields has not shown leadership, ability to get along with coaches/players and seems contrary and unhappy wherever she plays. Can she change? Could Pokey control her? No coach yet has.
*Nurse is an all-around 6' solid player offensively, defensively, leadership, pro-ready body, trained ready to go. A proven winner world-wide.
Trade possibilities?
Indy has a tough choice. Could depend on any free agent acquisitions.
Mitchell, Gabby, Nurse, DeShields, Billings or trade down/across.
The choice may become clearer in April 2018.
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That makes some sense, but you don't pass on a player as good as Kelsey Mitchell because you want someone who plays a different position, especially if you in need of rebuilding as the Fever are. Tamika Catchings covered a lot of holes, and they don't have any players that should feel safe, and no one nearly as good as K Mitchell should be.
Tiffany Mitchell and Shenise Johnson are nice players that would like to keep, but if you can get a potential Olympian, you take her and figure the rest out. The existing players with value would have value to other teams as well if you really need to move one of them.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63872
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Posted: 11/27/17 12:02 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
Shades wrote: |
Any chance a team like PHX might be interested in her?
All Ivy League first team and she's from Tempe, AZ |
To repeat myself, the hometown connection means almost nothing, especially from such a small school that lost 13 games when she was a senior. |
I know it doesn't matter to you, but it can matter to the player and sometimes even to the GM. The Lynx's successful GM always has an eye on the Gophers as prospects. Happy players can lead to a happy locker room. Shae Kelley won a WNBA championship because she was a Gopher. She wasn't a true Minnesotan, but I think Reeve liked her because she would go to all the Gopher games.
With Zimmerman, it's not just about being from Phoenix. She has nice size, guard skills and is a big time scorer.... all nice qualities for a prospect. The Arizona aspect might be a tipping point in a decision, that's all. I know you're new at this, but it can help to look for those tipping points when deciding who might draft who.
ClayK wrote: |
She'd definitely be worth an invite to camp, though, and hopefully generate a couple local media stories. |
Wait, you're on record saying that she won't be be drafted? Is she that bad?
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11187
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Posted: 11/27/17 12:25 pm ::: |
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I'm officially saying she will not be drafted, yes. Right now, she has twice as many turnovers as assists and is shooting 25% from three. Last year, bigger sample size, bad A/TO, mediocre three-point shooting.
If Princeton's Naveen Rasheed couldn't get a look, I don't think this young woman will.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 6918 Location: https://womensbasketballdaily.net
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Posted: 11/27/17 12:35 pm ::: |
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Add up the number of Ivy League players who've had extended WNBA careers, you'll only need one hand, most likely. That being said, Bella Alarie could prove to be an exception in a couple of years. |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63872
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Posted: 11/27/17 12:40 pm ::: |
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RavenDog wrote: |
To play Mitchell at the 1, reduces her offensive output. She can play the point but she's really not a point and would need more training, i.e., Lady Plum. Best PG in the Draft is Canada. |
Who was the best PG last year? You can't say Plum, because Mitchell is more of a PG than she was in college. Plum realized she was too short to be a serious SG prospect so she went to work her senior year packaging herself as a PG. That's why Plum's agent got pissed when SAN drafted a "PG" when they already had a PG in Jefferson.
People put too much energy into trying to label who is a PG and who is not. It's whatever works for you. Katie Smith is "not a PG", but she led the Shock to a championship. Nobody saw Schimmel as a PG in the WNBA, but she definitely displayed the skills (now she just needs the desire). Like I've said before, the days of the "true PG" are past. You need every position to be able to score.
RavenDog wrote: |
Mitchell would work better on a solid team with key player talent, i.e.. Phoenix, Chicago, Minnesota etc. Basically, Mitchell is a rich-mans Epiphany Prince. But Indy needs to start somewhere and Mitchell might be that player. |
Hey, if you guys want to let Mitchell drop to #12, I'm sure she'll get snapped up real quick and the Lynx might consider throwing a parade bigger than the WNBA championship parade.
RavenDog wrote: |
Canada is a talented inspirational PG, a leader, go-getter and plays defense. The best PG in the Draft and maybe the country (college) currently. Don't think she's the most needed player for Indy with January onboard? |
You're certainly drinking the Canada kool-aid in this post. I'm more skeptical than you at this point. More data and less cheerleading could help sway me.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 11/27/17 12:50 pm ::: |
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Thanks RavenDog. Now I don't feel so bad about trading away the Dream lottery pick.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 8192
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Posted: 11/27/17 1:12 pm ::: |
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RavenDog wrote: |
Who other than Mitchell?
*Russell is a slothful stiff that shoots free throws like Shaq. Definitely no.
*Gabby is a greatly talented athlete, inspirational and can defend well. Is she the best pro prospect? Might be but there are some questions.
*Billings will be a good big/rebounder and defender but currently has a poor offensive mid-range game and no long game. She hustles and is listed as 6'4". Might be able to trade down for her.
*Canada is a talented inspirational PG, a leader, go-getter and plays defense. The best PG in the Draft and maybe the country (college) currently. Don't think she's the most needed player for Indy with January onboard?
*DeShields has not shown leadership, ability to get along with coaches/players and seems contrary and unhappy wherever she plays. Can she change? Could Pokey control her? No coach yet has.
*Nurse is an all-around 6' solid player offensively, defensively, leadership, pro-ready body, trained ready to go. A proven winner world-wide.
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No disrespect, but this is a bias post....You went negative on DeShields/Russell...while kissing the asses of Gabby,Canada,and Nurse.
Deshields is greatly talented,is a legit 6'0,can defend,and create her own shot....but you said none of this.
Last edited by zune69 on 11/27/17 2:41 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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