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Connecticut @ UCLA - 11/21/17
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Who will win this game?
Connecticut
63%
 63%  [ 14 ]
UCLA
36%
 36%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 22

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patsweetpat



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 1:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Okay, so, UConn is really freaking good at basketball, it turns out. They're really good, you guys.


tfan



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 6:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
Not mentioned on this thread was the most obvious. Cori Close could not compete with Geno.

Talent wise, this is a wonderful team she has assembled but they looked completely leaderless.


Did Close have equivalent talent?

UConn has 7 players who played on a USA Basketball national team [Batouly Camara, Napheesa Collier, Crystal Dangerfield, Andra Espinoza-Hunter, Katie Lou Samuelson, Azura Stevens, Megan Walker]j.

UCLA has 4 players who played on a USA Basketball national team [Jordin Canada, Kennedy Burke, Monique BIllings (U24), Lauryn Miller]

At least two players for UConn were #1 recruit and/or national player of the year in high school.


ucbart



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 8:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
I think UCLA has hit the side of backboard more than they've made shots tonight. Shocked


UCLA needs temper some of their hustle and athleticism. They're physical and that's a great thing, but I think some of that is over-exaggerated(especially by Billings). Her and Canada, their two leaders, just don't have a mature smoothness to their games.

Never in a million years did I think this was the Crystal Dangerfield that would be playing for us this season. She's a completely different player.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 8:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I think UCLA has hit the side of backboard more than they've made shots tonight. Shocked


UCLA needs temper some of their hustle and athleticism. They're physical and that's a great thing, but I think some of that is over-exaggerated(especially by Billings). Her and Canada, their two leaders, just don't have a mature smoothness to their games.

Never in a million years did I think this was the Crystal Dangerfield that would be playing for us this season. She's a completely different player.


Oh ye of little faith.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 8:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
ucbart wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I think UCLA has hit the side of backboard more than they've made shots tonight. Shocked


UCLA needs temper some of their hustle and athleticism. They're physical and that's a great thing, but I think some of that is over-exaggerated(especially by Billings). Her and Canada, their two leaders, just don't have a mature smoothness to their games.

Never in a million years did I think this was the Crystal Dangerfield that would be playing for us this season. She's a completely different player.


Oh ye of little faith.


Dangerfield gets no respect. No respect at all, I tell ya.



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 9:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
If UCLA can accomplish these three objectives, UConn will have to win with its interior half court offense, which has not yet been as impressive this season as last.

I was quite pleased with their interior half-court offense last night. Their 3-point game was there too but they made some great baskets underneath.


linkster



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 10:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
[Did Close have equivalent talent?

UConn has 7 players who played on a USA Basketball national team [Batouly Camara, Napheesa Collier, Crystal Dangerfield, Andra Espinoza-Hunter, Katie Lou Samuelson, Azura Stevens, Megan Walker]j.

UCLA has 4 players who played on a USA Basketball national team [Jordin Canada, Kennedy Burke, Monique BIllings (U24), Lauryn Miller]

At least two players for UConn were #1 recruit and/or national player of the year in high school.


Two of the 7 UConn players were out injured for this game. That means that UConn had 5 to UCLA's 4. And UCLA had a senior pg to UConn's sophomore.
I'd say the talent level was fairly even. UConn just played better defense, which is more about effort than talent.


LitePal



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 11:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="tfan"][quote="LitePal"]Not mentioned on this thread was the most obvious. Cori Close could not compete with Geno.

Talent wise, this is a wonderful team she has assembled but they looked completely leaderless.[/quote]

Did Close have equivalent talent?

UConn has 7 players who played on a USA Basketball national team [Batouly Camara, Napheesa Collier, Crystal Dangerfield, Andra Espinoza-Hunter, Katie Lou Samuelson, Azura Stevens, Megan Walker]j.

UCLA has 4 players who played on a USA Basketball national team [Jordin Canada, Kennedy Burke, Monique BIllings (U24), Lauryn Miller]

At least two players for UConn were #1 recruit and/or national player of the year in high school.[/quote]

Uconn has more talent, no question but UCLA has never won the conference or won the conference tournament. How many USA team members did Scott Rueck have and OSU still won the conference and the conference tourney two years ago. Their victory in the tourney was over UCLA. Rueck has won the conference three years in a row against UCLA's three USA team members.

I think Coach Cori Close is a wonderful lady, very ethical and a fine coach but she has not proven she can get to the next level. If she can't do it with this class, she likely won't be able to do it at all. I'm pulling for her because she's likely the womens coach for the long haul but so far her results have been disappointing. Two S16s are great but I believe the team is capable of more, talent wise. She's also had her assistant coaches with her for all seven years so there's no lack of continuity there either.


patsweetpat



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 1:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just wanna note that ~9,500 folks showed up for yesterday's game, which is the 3rd largest wbb crowd in Pauley history. Not too shabby!


readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 2:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
tfan wrote:
[Did Close have equivalent talent?

UConn has 7 players who played on a USA Basketball national team [Batouly Camara, Napheesa Collier, Crystal Dangerfield, Andra Espinoza-Hunter, Katie Lou Samuelson, Azura Stevens, Megan Walker]j.

UCLA has 4 players who played on a USA Basketball national team [Jordin Canada, Kennedy Burke, Monique BIllings (U24), Lauryn Miller]

At least two players for UConn were #1 recruit and/or national player of the year in high school.


Two of the 7 UConn players were out injured for this game. That means that UConn had 5 to UCLA's 4. And UCLA had a senior pg to UConn's sophomore.
I'd say the talent level was fairly even. UConn just played better defense, which is more about effort than talent.


Please tell me this is a joke. UConn's talent level is light years ahead of UCLA. To deny that blatant FACT is a sign of something. Geno certainly gets his already 'more talented than any other team' playing on an even higher level. But it's downright silly to claim these teams have similar talent.



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 3:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

readyAIMfire53 wrote:
linkster wrote:
tfan wrote:
[Did Close have equivalent talent?

UConn has 7 players who played on a USA Basketball national team [Batouly Camara, Napheesa Collier, Crystal Dangerfield, Andra Espinoza-Hunter, Katie Lou Samuelson, Azura Stevens, Megan Walker]j.

UCLA has 4 players who played on a USA Basketball national team [Jordin Canada, Kennedy Burke, Monique BIllings (U24), Lauryn Miller]

At least two players for UConn were #1 recruit and/or national player of the year in high school.


Two of the 7 UConn players were out injured for this game. That means that UConn had 5 to UCLA's 4. And UCLA had a senior pg to UConn's sophomore.
I'd say the talent level was fairly even. UConn just played better defense, which is more about effort than talent.


Please tell me this is a joke. UConn's talent level is light years ahead of UCLA. To deny that blatant FACT is a sign of something. Geno certainly gets his already 'more talented than any other team' playing on an even higher level. But it's downright silly to claim these teams have similar talent.


In my opinion, UConn had a talent advantage in respect to every player in the top seven of the teams' rotations with the arguable exception of point guard. Even at that position, at least in this game, I thought Dangerfield played a more disciplined and smarter game than Canada.

A teamwork difference on both offense and defense was clearly apparent. UConn could score in and defend the paint effectively, whereas UCLA could do neither. Some of that was surely the talent difference and another part was surely a coaching difference. I've liked Close for a long time because I'm an FSU fan, but she's no Geno.
Shades



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 3:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="320" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dRcgF892TWk" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 5:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ESPN not looking so great dubbing Azura as possibly the best player in the country. I do not and have not seen it not once so far this season . Jumped the gun a bit ya think ?



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Shades



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 5:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Definitely the best sixth person.



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 5:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Definitely the best sixth person.



Vaughn from Notre Dame making a strong case against that notion also .
Laughing



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linkster



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 9:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

readyAIMfire53 wrote:
linkster wrote:
tfan wrote:
[Did Close have equivalent talent?

UConn has 7 players who played on a USA Basketball national team [Batouly Camara, Napheesa Collier, Crystal Dangerfield, Andra Espinoza-Hunter, Katie Lou Samuelson, Azura Stevens, Megan Walker]j.

UCLA has 4 players who played on a USA Basketball national team [Jordin Canada, Kennedy Burke, Monique BIllings (U24), Lauryn Miller]

At least two players for UConn were #1 recruit and/or national player of the year in high school.


Two of the 7 UConn players were out injured for this game. That means that UConn had 5 to UCLA's 4. And UCLA had a senior pg to UConn's sophomore.
I'd say the talent level was fairly even. UConn just played better defense, which is more about effort than talent.


Please tell me this is a joke. UConn's talent level is light years ahead of UCLA. To deny that blatant FACT is a sign of something. Geno certainly gets his already 'more talented than any other team' playing on an even higher level. But it's downright silly to claim these teams have similar talent.


I'm taking your lead that somehow a font size describes the level of my disagreement. Smile

Light years? That's ridiculous. While there MAY be a difference the big reason UConn won by the margin they did had to do with their defense, which has a lot less to do with talent and more to do with effort and practice. I can't find the quote but one UCLA player said in a postgame comment that her defensive effort was poor, mostly because she didn't work hard enough in practice while her UConn counterpart made far fewer mistakes on both ends of the court.

I apologize to you because this isn't a response to you as much as a response to all the posts over the years that say that UConn wins because they "get all the best players". I'm sure that makes some feel better than to admit that UConn was simply better prepared. Sure they get more talent than other schools over a period of years but not to the extent some think. UConn wins to the extent they do in large part because they work harder, because they EXECUTE. Only a few months ago the general consensus about Dangerfield was that she wouldn't start. Why? Her talent? Impossible!! Suddenly she is at or above Canada's talent level. It's unfathomable how all this talent looks so inept as freshmen in the 4th quarter of games but then transform into uber-talented players after 2 years in the UConn system. Maybe the NCAA should have them all pee in a cup? Not one of UConn's starters last year was on even one preseason AA list. I think that both Canada and Billings made some of those lists. Did they suddenly lose some of their talent?


"UConn has all the No 1 recruits"
Yup. KLS. Oops, she didn't play. Walker? She played 25 minutes but up to last night has been described on this board as having no outside game. Hardly up to Stewart or Moore standards (according to some).

The starting five last night? Not a No 1 recruit among them. Oh yeah. Let's not forget Kia Nurse. I remember a thread several years ago where she was relegated to being an end of bencher. Why? Obviously, after watching her in videos several posters confidently said she didn't have enough talent to ever be a starter. And yet here she is, a premier defensive player, an efficient enough scorer to start for 4 years and a likely 1st round WNBA pick. Why? Because she was given the tools by the coaches, worked her butt off in practice and on her own and gave everything in games.


I don't think UConn's players are blessed with significantly more talent than many of the elite level teams. And yet do we ever hear how S Carolina/Notre Dame/Baylor/etc ONLY beat some #30 team because they had "all the talent"? Nope, not once. Only UConn wins on talent superiority.

What I think UConn has in abundance over most other teams is a willingness to work hard and relinquish their personal goals in favor of their team's goals. UConn simply gets more out of the talent they have.



Rant over Very Happy


tfan



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 9:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kpGfxlN2NbI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 11/22/17 10:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
readyAIMfire53 wrote:
linkster wrote:
tfan wrote:
[Did Close have equivalent talent?

UConn has 7 players who played on a USA Basketball national team [Batouly Camara, Napheesa Collier, Crystal Dangerfield, Andra Espinoza-Hunter, Katie Lou Samuelson, Azura Stevens, Megan Walker]j.

UCLA has 4 players who played on a USA Basketball national team [Jordin Canada, Kennedy Burke, Monique BIllings (U24), Lauryn Miller]

At least two players for UConn were #1 recruit and/or national player of the year in high school.


Two of the 7 UConn players were out injured for this game. That means that UConn had 5 to UCLA's 4. And UCLA had a senior pg to UConn's sophomore.
I'd say the talent level was fairly even. UConn just played better defense, which is more about effort than talent.


Please tell me this is a joke. UConn's talent level is light years ahead of UCLA. To deny that blatant FACT is a sign of something. Geno certainly gets his already 'more talented than any other team' playing on an even higher level. But it's downright silly to claim these teams have similar talent.


I'm taking your lead that somehow a font size describes the level of my disagreement. Smile

Light years? That's ridiculous. While there MAY be a difference the big reason UConn won by the margin they did had to do with their defense, which has a lot less to do with talent and more to do with effort and practice. I can't find the quote but one UCLA player said in a postgame comment that her defensive effort was poor, mostly because she didn't work hard enough in practice while her UConn counterpart made far fewer mistakes on both ends of the court.

I apologize to you because this isn't a response to you as much as a response to all the posts over the years that say that UConn wins because they "get all the best players". I'm sure that makes some feel better than to admit that UConn was simply better prepared. Sure they get more talent than other schools over a period of years but not to the extent some think. UConn wins to the extent they do in large part because they work harder, because they EXECUTE. Only a few months ago the general consensus about Dangerfield was that she wouldn't start. Why? Her talent? Impossible!! Suddenly she is at or above Canada's talent level. It's unfathomable how all this talent looks so inept as freshmen in the 4th quarter of games but then transform into uber-talented players after 2 years in the UConn system. Maybe the NCAA should have them all pee in a cup? Not one of UConn's starters last year was on even one preseason AA list. I think that both Canada and Billings made some of those lists. Did they suddenly lose some of their talent?


"UConn has all the No 1 recruits"
Yup. KLS. Oops, she didn't play. Walker? She played 25 minutes but up to last night has been described on this board as having no outside game. Hardly up to Stewart or Moore standards (according to some).

The starting five last night? Not a No 1 recruit among them. Oh yeah. Let's not forget Kia Nurse. I remember a thread several years ago where she was relegated to being an end of bencher. Why? Obviously, after watching her in videos several posters confidently said she didn't have enough talent to ever be a starter. And yet here she is, a premier defensive player, an efficient enough scorer to start for 4 years and a likely 1st round WNBA pick. Why? Because she was given the tools by the coaches, worked her butt off in practice and on her own and gave everything in games.


I don't think UConn's players are blessed with significantly more talent than many of the elite level teams. And yet do we ever hear how S Carolina/Notre Dame/Baylor/etc ONLY beat some #30 team because they had "all the talent"? Nope, not once. Only UConn wins on talent superiority.

What I think UConn has in abundance over most other teams is a willingness to work hard and relinquish their personal goals in favor of their team's goals. UConn simply gets more out of the talent they have.



Rant over Very Happy


LOL Linkster. My only quibble was describing the two teams as having equal talent. That is simply not the case. I think I did mention that Geno then takes that superior talent and bumps them all up a notch or two. I'm actually delighted to watch Azura working with a good coach. When it became clear how good she was at Duke, I thought "too bad nobody (WNBA scouts) won't see it due to how bad Duke coaching is. Not saying she's #1 in the country but I do think she'll make first team AA. Wait until her three pointer starts going in when she gets more comfortable in the UConn offense.



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linkster



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PostPosted: 11/23/17 12:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

readyAIMfire53 wrote:


LOL Linkster. My only quibble was describing the two teams as having equal talent. That is simply not the case. ....


I said FAIRLY equal. I was responding to a post that said UConn had 7 USA players to 4 for UCLA. I merely pointed out the poster forgot that UConn was without 2 of those players(and now notice that a third UConn player on the list didn't even play). So the USA players on the court last night were even for the two teams.

Without talent a championship program is impossible. UCLA has sufficient talent to beat UConn. If you ranked wcbb teams by whatever measure of talent the difference between UConn and UCLA would be a lot less than the difference between UCLA and say, any team in the bottom 2/3's of the SEC or any B12 team other than Texas & Baylor, etc.


Davis4632



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PostPosted: 11/23/17 2:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I see the Lou Holtz class of poor mouthing talent is still in session. I thought Nurse was the number one ranked player coming out of Canada her senior year in HS and would have been a top 20 player if she lived in the US. There were times I thought Dolson and Stokes literally started playing organized basketball a year before they came UConn the way their talents were downplayed. When was the last time UConn lost to a team that had more talent than them?


tfan



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PostPosted: 11/24/17 3:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:


What I think UConn has in abundance over most other teams is a willingness to work hard and relinquish their personal goals in favor of their team's goals. UConn simply gets more out of the talent they have.


UConn goes years without losing a game and has almost none of their wins be within 10 points in that period. That's hard to do with equivalent talent to other top 10 teams, but superior coaching.

The fact that they go years without losing is why people talk about their superior talent more often. Let Baylor or Notre Dame or South Carolina go undefeated for years with almost no close games and you will hear the same things about their superior talent.

If UCLA had equivalent numbers of National Team members for the game, it also needs to be seen who started on those teams (and the reserves ranked). A WNBA lottery pick (equivalent to a national team starter), is usually notably better than a WNBA #6-#12 pick.

One area, besides coaching, where Auriemma could be superior to other coaches is recruiting. Both in charming the recruits (over and above the tremendous past results advantage) and also being able to judge their talent - which ones to accept and which ones to reject.


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PostPosted: 11/24/17 7:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

after reading the postgame comments, it's clear the WCB world is in its proper order.



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linkster



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PostPosted: 11/24/17 4:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
linkster wrote:


What I think UConn has in abundance over most other teams is a willingness to work hard and relinquish their personal goals in favor of their team's goals. UConn simply gets more out of the talent they have.


UConn goes years without losing a game and has almost none of their wins be within 10 points in that period. That's hard to do with equivalent talent to other top 10 teams, but superior coaching.

The fact that they go years without losing is why people talk about their superior talent more often. Let Baylor or Notre Dame or South Carolina go undefeated for years with almost no close games and you will hear the same things about their superior talent.

If UCLA had equivalent numbers of National Team members for the game, it also needs to be seen who started on those teams (and the reserves ranked). A WNBA lottery pick (equivalent to a national team starter), is usually notably better than a WNBA #6-#12 pick.

One area, besides coaching, where Auriemma could be superior to other coaches is recruiting. Both in charming the recruits (over and above the tremendous past results advantage) and also being able to judge their talent - which ones to accept and which ones to reject.


You made a number of good points. I guess that I have just gotten tired of reading that UConn's tremendous success is due simply to overwhelming talent. UConn's MOV vs UCLA had a lot more to do with the Bruin's defensive mistakes in the last couple of minutes in the 1st & 2nd periods and in the 3rd period. In that 3rd period UConn started getting a lot of easy drives through the lane that were due mostly to defensive lapses. That isn't a talent issue. More a stamina gap. Or a mental gap.
This weekend is filled with mismatched talent games and there will be upsets because some players will be more interested in the warm sun and ocean breezes than the games. The reason UConn goes on long winning streaks is because they rarely play a crappy game. An opponent that is losing to UConn 50-14 at the half may only be behind by a dozen against another elite-talent team. Why? because the elite team didn't execute anywhere near the level at which they are capable. Is sloppy play by the superior team what makes those games more entertaining? Because that is what I think some posters are saying.


Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 11/24/17 4:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I see UCLA have lived up to their underwhelming in consistency tag. Seems there is no change from the prior 3 years in fact could they be worse. How many years have the PAC pundits called them the team to beat. I am sure no coach is afraid to tackle them again this year. Great crowd, the crowd was the best part of this game but I wasn't particularly impressed with the game. Not your typical Uconn performance. There were moments when I was thinking this is such sloppy game from both teams.


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