| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9604
Back to top |
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21045
Back to top |
 Posted: 11/19/17 3:58 am ::: |
Reply  |
|
| justintyme wrote: |
It is very possible that his motives in this situation were not shady at all and he simply wanted to rehearse the kiss the skit called for with his co-star before they went live (this is not an abnormal request as kissing on stage can be awkward if everyone is not prepared). |
No. This is a USO tour played lightly for shits and grins. Not to the rigorous standards of real show business or Broadway or anything like that. And Leeann Tweeden is not an actress she's a flat out lip smacking piece of human cheesecake. That's not a sexist insult, that's her chosen career.
I've seen her in person. She was a waitress trainee at Chin Chin on Sunset Blvd one brief moment when she must have first landed here. So she was very young. I think I saw her basically ONE time that afternoon. She maybe only came to our table once as she was 'following' whoever was training her that day and I never saw her working there after that. But sometimes, as a guy, or maybe I guess as a girl too, I knew this was someone I would probably remember forever. Maybe almost a decade later I see her in her subsequent role as a swimsuit or bikini model on TV or something and I instantly remembered her from that one solitary afternoon many years prior. That's the kind of whatever you want to call it, talent, lol, I guess, that she brings to the table. At that point, she was a knock your socks off knockout. I just took a quick look, you can't even find pictures of her from that far back.
But then she became kind of augmented by plastic surgery and time but the point here is this, there's no need for the purpose of a skit on a USO tour for actual kissing in rehearsal. But... any heterosexual man this side of 110 years old would be plotting from the minute he laid eyes on Ms Tweeden how he might somehow get his lips attached to her personage. Al should not have given into this basic animal urge that is, in and of itself, totally understandable. Motives not shady? Only if he's gay would that be remotely believable.
He did this. And he did it just three years prior to becoming a US senator which is very problematic IMO. It's workplace behavior and, IMO, that's especially egregious. Does the person running to be a US Senator respect women in the workplace? Uh. How about give me a break!
So I don't buy so much the picture being the most problematic aspect of this incident but it certainly illustrates the attitude and focus Franken had on this woman and her female attributes. But French kissing a woman by surprise and then treating her like shit in retaliation because she rebuffed you is... and doing this shit in your 50s... lol... uh... it's not forgivable or excusable. Unless he has some kind of a freewheeling arrangement with his wife, which I CERTAINLY understand, then I don't know how she would excuse this behavior upon hearing it. It's plain as day and there isn't any cover here. People shouldn't try. Bill Clinton had way more cover with Monica Lewinsky after all the things Monica had said prior to her even becoming a White House Intern. She was gunning for a sexual encounter with the president before she even arrived at the White House.
Anyway, in answer to calbearman76, is YES, she says she rebuffed the shit out of him. Warning him that if he ever did it again she'd ... you know... whatever! lol. And then, according to her, the derision and humiliating comments started as he made the rest of her trip sort of miserable. And again, workplace (even if and maybe especially if the work is volunteering your time for a benefit event or a USO tour) advances, and then retaliation for speaking up or rebuffing those advances, is the worst. I'd rather hear of a lot of things than those kinds of situations.
But in Hollywood, it's that and then some.
Look, some of this is my opinion, some of it is just what I would think of as facts. But I don't want to argue about it. I'm incredibly bummed that Al Franken has been implicated as being one of those who has treated a woman this way. I'm not suprised, though. But, honestly, I wish we could replace every member of Congress and the occupiers of the Oval Office with all Al Franken clones. We would have a different country and world. But as it is, this is what we've got. And Al Franken the man, warts and all, and not the liberal left pipe-dream, is the reality of the situation. We all have to deal with that or we're just not true to the ideal that goddamnit a woman is not to be treated this way.
|
|
scullyfu
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 8857
Location: Niagara Falls
Back to top |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/19/17 10:20 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Just in case you think the rendition of events is politically tinged in any way, I hope you realize Tweeden was a regular on the Sean Hannity's show for a couple of years.
|
|
mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19753
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/19/17 11:02 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| cthskzfn wrote: |
Really, Franken should resign?
Get a grip on reality. There is no comparison between fuckers like Moore, Trump, Spacey, and Weinstein, to Franken.
And fuck the Democrats if they cave here. |
Of course they are different. I'm just saying Franken should resign. Moore, Trump, and Weinstein should be in jail.
Democrats are supposed to be better than what Franken did. As Jon Stewart said, on Comedy's best day it isn't good to women. This was disgusting. "Liberals" have shown a trend towards sexism as of late (or at least let their true colors show). This isn't caving, this is cleaning out our party.
And yeah, put a woman in his place. I don't think having a vagina is what makes a person qualified, but you know..if boys will be boys and they just can't help it, clearly a dick is disqualifying. Can't have someone who is too tied to their biology making important decisions. 
seriously though, and I say this all the time..a majority of the teenagers I know seem to understand this shit is a "no no," what the fuck is wrong with the 50+ club?
_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/20/17 10:09 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
Really, Franken should resign?
Get a grip on reality. There is no comparison between fuckers like Moore, Trump, Spacey, and Weinstein, to Franken.
And fuck the Democrats if they cave here. |
Of course they are different. I'm just saying Franken should resign. Moore, Trump, and Weinstein should be in jail.
Democrats are supposed to be better than what Franken did. As Jon Stewart said, on Comedy's best day it isn't good to women. This was disgusting. "Liberals" have shown a trend towards sexism as of late (or at least let their true colors show). This isn't caving, this is cleaning out our party.
And yeah, put a woman in his place. I don't think having a vagina is what makes a person qualified, but you know..if boys will be boys and they just can't help it, clearly a dick is disqualifying. Can't have someone who is too tied to their biology making important decisions.
seriously though, and I say this all the time..a majority of the teenagers I know seem to understand this shit is a "no no," what the fuck is wrong with the 50+ club? |
Was there a laying of the hands on the sleeping woman's uniform-covered breasts?
If not, then Franken should stand firm and remain in the Senate.
Sophomoric poor taste, especially given the circumstances, does not preclude sitting in the US Senate, in my 50+ yr old white guy's opinion. 
and furthermore  , Jon Stewart did a great disservice, and forever sullied his rep, imo, with his asinine and inaccurate "both sides do it" comment prior to, or at, the Washington march a few years ago.
_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
Last edited by cthskzfn on 11/20/17 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 6916
Location: https://womensbasketballdaily.net
Back to top |
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9604
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/20/17 11:46 am ::: |
Reply |
|
"Was there a laying of the hands on the sleeping woman's uniform-covered breasts?"
That hasn't been reported, but it hasn't stopped people on TV (I think I heard at least one Democrat say that - likely one of the ones who are calling for him to resign) refer to it as "groping" not "simulated groping".
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/20/17 1:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Better shoot the fucker.
_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/20/17 3:31 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| stever wrote: |
| https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/20/us/politics/a-second-woman-accuses-al-franken-of-inappropriate-touching.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0 |
Seriously? So her belief is that Franken, as a sitting Senator, decided to play grab-ass with her while her husband took a picture. Her, out of the multitudes of women who have taken said pictures, he decided to risk his career and reputation over.
I guess I have sexually molested numerous women over the years during pictures when my hand has ended up on their butts (usually because of missing the hips, where one's hand often rests during pictures).
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/20/17 6:39 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
We're not seriously at a point where patting somebody on the ass disqualifies an otherwise perfectly suitable individual from elective office, are we.
The rest of the world is probably laughing at our prudishness once again.
That people are somehow equating this to forcing a 14 year old's face into one's crotch manifests just how absurd this has become.
Reading Miller's "The Crucible" should become a mandatory prerequisite to voting.
|
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21045
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/20/17 8:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| We're not seriously at a point where patting somebody on the ass disqualifies an otherwise perfectly suitable individual from elective office, are we. |
I would hope so.
|
|
mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19753
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/20/17 9:46 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
I would hope so. |
I like being on the same side.
_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
|
mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19753
Back to top |
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21045
Back to top |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/21/17 2:15 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Of course this stupidity that Franken is being accused of here isn't even "patting on the ass". It's his hand touching her butt while a photo was taken. Have you all even seen the picture of the non-incident? Two smiling people in a normal looking photo.
I mean, how would you all feel if some random person you took a picture with 10 years ago suddenly accused you of grabbing their butt because your hand rested there briefly and you didn’t realize it?
And then people wanted you fired for it.
It is shit like this that will derail the whole movement, as people are going to start saying WTF to some of these charges. And then the legitimate complaints are going to get swept up and lost in the idiocy.
Hell, just look at the "story" the NY Post was running with today where they had pictures of Franken supposedly grabbing Arianna Huffinton's chest. Yet Huffington herself said there was nothing wrong with what he was doing and provided context for the pictures. You would figure that as soon as she said that it would be a non-story....but nope, they still went to press with their salacious headline.
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21925
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/21/17 2:51 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| A chest-groping photo pose is more in the category of "Who exactly did you think would find this funny???" IMO. But that's not the problem here anyway. It's just an unfortunate bonus chapter to the story, and I am pretty sure you know that.
_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/21/17 10:34 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| But it is a chapter to an entirely different story. The Huffington photo, as explained by her, was an homage to a skit they did together years before on SNL. They are very good friends and she was not uncomfortable or pressured in the least. That means that it shares nothing at all in context with the other allegations. To even allude to it like it does is defamatory and dangerous.
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/21/17 12:20 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I guess the way I look at some of this stuff is by internalizing the situations, and extrapolating them to things that have happened in my own life. I then ask myself if I felt that I was being inappropriate, or what my reaction to this would be if someone accused me.
Take the photograph. I know for a fact that on at least a few occasions my hand has ended up on a butt by accident for a few seconds. And once that I know of, I ended up with a hand on a boob. The circumstances around the latter involved me in a group picture with my arm resting on a friend's shoulder with my hand draped in front of them. It was just the position we ended up in as people pushed into the photo. I eventually realized where my hand was, apologized and moved it. My friend laughed, and it was no big deal. However, it had been there for some time before I became aware. If the picture had been taken quickly, I likely would never have realized it and wouldn't have apologized. It is very conceivable that she could have interpreted that as me trying to take advantage of the situation in order to cop a feel, even though that was absolutely not the case. In other times I have had my hand on what I thought was their hip, but when thinking about it later realized that I might have grabbed ass when I pulled them into me for the picture. No nefarious thoughts on my part, just an honest mistake. Again, it is possible that this woman thought I was doing it on purpose. And if I had realized it at the time I would have apologized and made sure she knew it was an accident. But here is the thing, I am sure it has happened other times and I haven't realized it even after the fact.
All this said, what would I feel, and how would I respond if these women came forward and accused me of sexual misconduct? What if it threatened my job?
Where is this line drawn? Does believing women mean that we can't also allow for innocent explanations for events that could easily have them? Is it possible for two people to experience the same circumstances, but walk away with two entirely different, honestly held beliefs about what just occurred? These are some serious questions that I think we need to examine about these things or we risk over-correcting and ultimately undoing some of our progress.
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
Back to top |
|
Stonington_QB
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 756
Location: Siege Perilous
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/21/17 3:18 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| cthskzfn wrote: |
Really, Franken should resign?
Get a grip on reality. There is no comparison between fuckers like Moore, Trump, Spacey, and Weinstein, to Franken.
And fuck the Democrats if they cave here. |
Totally agree. There's no comparison with Franken to any of these other guys you mentioned. The other guys have allegations whereas Franken's accusers have photographic evidence.
I agree with your other point too. Don't cave. Stay in there! In fact, he should not only stay on as senator, but he should run for re-election too. It would be the gift that keeps on giving!
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
|
StevenHW
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 10980
Location: Sacramento, California
Back to top |
|
|
|
