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M.S.G. Group Intends To Sell The Liberty!!!
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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 4:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ugh. I’m really upset. Losing the Liberty would be devastating to me. I could be wrong about this but I felt there were times that if they opened the upper bowl and even donated some tickets they could have made more money. I could be wrong though.

Hopefully there will be a way for them to stay. Timing is weird. Just hired Katie Smith. Maybe there’s a buyer they have in mind but they’re not making it public till later. Allan Houston?

Anyway. I’m disappointed but anger is worthless. I know it’s a business. Owners can do what they want with them.



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Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 4:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is this the year of "The Becky Hammon Curse"?

First San Antonio now New York ?



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GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 11/14/17 5:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
I don't see why the league "has" to have a team in NYC. They only "need" to be in a place where they can consistently sell whatever number of tickets is required to make a business profit.

When it comes to drawing sponsors and driving other income streams, being a truly national enterprise is a big thing. You want eyes on the product, exposure, and interest where it matters and people have disposable income. That means being in major markets.


Okay, but that still doesn't mean to me that NYC "has" to be one of them.

Here's a list as of 2015 of the 50 most populous cities in America. I've asterisked the ones that currently have WNBA teams. (The CT Sun don't play in a top 50 city.) There seem to be lots of major markets left other than NYC, especially when the sport is so niche.

City size rank; City; Population est. 2015

*1 New York 8,550,405
*2 Los Angeles 3,971,883
*3 Chicago 2,720,546
4 Houston 2,296,224
5 Philadelphia 1,567,442
*6 Phoenix 1,563,025
7 San Antonio 1,469,845
8 San Diego 1,394,928
*9 Dallas 1,300,092
10 San Jose 1,026,908
11 Austin 931,830
12 Jacksonville 868,031
13 San Francisco 864,816
*14 Indianapolis 853,173
15 Columbus 850,106
16 Fort Worth 833,319
17 Charlotte 827,097
*18 Seattle 684,451
19 Denver 682,545
20 El Paso 681,124
21 Detroit 677,116
*22 Washington 672,228
23 Boston 667,137
24 Memphis 655,770
25 Nashville 654,610
26 Portland, Ore. 632,309
27 Oklahoma City 631,346
*28 Las Vegas 623,747
29 Baltimore 621,849
30 Louisville 615,366
31 Milwaukee 600,155
32 Albuquerque 559,121
33 Tucson 531,641
34 Fresno 520,052
35 Sacramento 490,712
36 Kansas City, Mo. 475,378
37 Long Beach 474,140
38 Mesa 471,825
*39 Atlanta 463,878
40 Colorado Springs 456,568
41 Virginia Beach 452,745
42 Raleigh 451,066
43 Omaha 443,885
44 Miami 441,003
45 Oakland 419,267
*46 Minneapolis 410,939
47 Tulsa 403,505
48 Wichita 389,965
49 New Orleans 389,617
50 Arlington, Texas 388,125

Staying in NYC may be symbolically and emotionally desirable but it isn't necessary, especially if, as suggested above by Calbearman, NYC has a hard to overcome cost structure. For example, if MSG has cost problems when it owns it's own arena, how could any non-arena Liberty owner afford to rent an arena in NYC, which really boils down to MSG and the Barclay Center?
toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 11/14/17 6:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Really hoping we get some inside info from someone (Voepel?) about this. Like, will Dolan just pull the plug if a new owner isn't found? Is there an interested party activity looking to buy the Liberty? Will they stay in NY? MSG?



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WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: 11/14/17 6:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Swin cash live on IG sounding very optmistic that New york are not going anywhere as though she has some type of inside information in which i would believe. She stated look out for the next few days or weeks for new information regarding the liberty . Makes me think something is in the works !



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Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 11/14/17 7:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Swin cash live on IG sounding very optmistic that New york are not going anywhere as though she has some type of inside information in which i would believe. She stated look out for the next few days or weeks for new information regarding the liberty . Makes me think something is in the works !


Thanks for reporting this. Hoping for good news.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 7:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Putting on rose colored glasses for a change, perhaps the deal is in the works and MSG got worried word might leak out so they put this out there. Of course, it goes without saying "No deal is done until it's done."

BTW - maybe this is just a money making scheme. Perhaps Dolan thinks he can actually get a little something for the team, and then make more collecting rent from the new owners for use of MSG for games than he makes now on the team.


toad455



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 7:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Swin cash live on IG sounding very optmistic that New york are not going anywhere as though she has some type of inside information in which i would believe. She stated look out for the next few days or weeks for new information regarding the liberty . Makes me think something is in the works !


Thanks for reporting this. Hoping for good news.


Agreed. I don't think Dolan would simply fold the team without getting something for it. A team that draws 10k should be able to make money, even at MSG. I really hope Swin has inside info that someone is buying the team (soon) and hopefully keeping them at MSG.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 7:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I like Richyyy's barge idea. The 2011 Carrier Classic drew 8,100 fans to the USS Vinson for a basketball game. The Intrepid is permanently docked in Manhattan. It's a smaller ship, but since it's not active maybe we can rearrange the deck chairs so to speak --create more useful space. Hey, if the realistic options suck, you gotta think outside the box.Very Happy



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willtalk



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: 11/14/17 8:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Randy wrote:
pilight wrote:
Separation from NBA owners is a long, slow, painful process. However, it is essential for the long term success of the league.


Aren't you concerned that if all or nearly all the teams are non-NBA owners, the NBA owners will decide to stop subsidizing the WNBA?


They're not subsidizing the WNBA now.

The W separating from the NBA will be like when Billie Jean King and the rest of the Original Nine left the men's tour and started what eventually became the WTA. Women's tennis grew enormously once it wasn't being run as a side show to the men's game. Within 10 years, prize money for women increased to more than 40 times what it had been under the men's governance.


What helped make that separation successful was the promotion women's tennis got when King beat Riggs. I seriously doubt that something of that would happen in the game of Basketball. The fans that follow Tennis are also much different that those that follow basketball. We are talking about two distinct socioeconomic groups and far less sexist.

I would respectfully disagree with your assessment on this issue. The NBA logo adds respectability to the WNBA in only by association. Take that away and the leagues promote-ability would suffer. There just are not enough women basketball fans in this country to support the league the way many of us would want.


Ay Mate



Joined: 12 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: 11/14/17 8:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Swin cash live on IG sounding very optmistic that New york are not going anywhere as though she has some type of inside information in which i would believe. She stated look out for the next few days or weeks for new information regarding the liberty . Makes me think something is in the works !


Where can I view this?


Ay Mate



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 8:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I heard a few rumors that Isaiah Thomas is purchasing the team and keeping them in NY.


StevenHW



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 8:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I hope the Liberty can find another owner soon. I do not want the lack of interested potential buyers to wreck the timing of when the 2018 WNBA schedule comes out.



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toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 11/14/17 8:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Sparks' announcement happened around the same time of year, which delayed the schedule release that year. If a schedule gets released before a change of ownership, we know Dolan won't be shutting the team down (hopefully).



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jmvcity



Joined: 21 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: 11/14/17 8:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

MSG CEO has just stepped down without warning.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-13/madison-square-garden-ceo-steps-down-abruptly-dolan-takes-over


pilight



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 9:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
The Sparks' announcement happened around the same time of year, which delayed the schedule release that year. If a schedule gets released before a change of ownership, we know Dolan won't be shutting the team down (hopefully).


The Sparks announcement was in January



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tfan



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 9:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe Dolan read this message board, saw fans weren't happy with him owning the team, and decided it wasn't worth it to hang onto a money-losing venture.

I think those New York attendance figures have to be total fiction in order for the Liberty to be losing money. They keep MSG so dark you can never see from pictures of video how big the crowd is.


Queenie



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 10:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
I heard a few rumors that Isaiah Thomas is purchasing the team and keeping them in NY.


If it's him, that's fine; maybe that means we can swing a deal for Kelsey Plum. Wink

If it's the sleazebag... fine, I can tolerate him as long as he doesn't fuck it up. If he does fuck it up, Imma sharpen the pitchfork.



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bballgrl



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PostPosted: 11/15/17 1:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Ugh. I’m really upset. Losing the Liberty would be devastating to me. I could be wrong about this but I felt there were times that if they opened the upper bowl and even donated some tickets they could have made more money. I could be wrong though.

Hopefully there will be a way for them to stay. Timing is weird. Just hired Katie Smith. Maybe there’s a buyer they have in mind but they’re not making it public till later. Allan Houston?

Anyway. I’m disappointed but anger is worthless. I know it’s a business. Owners can do what they want with them.


I think every fan whose city has lost their team has been upset, myself included. When we lost the Rockers I was really upset. Dan Gilbert who is the owner of the Cleveland Cav's as well as several casinos in the city could easily afford to bring a wnba team back to Cleveland. People say there aren't enough fans interested in the WNBA to support it. Afterall, there are only 12 teams currently so if there were more teams in more states there would be more fans who could support it. I love the W but can't go to a game because there is not a team close enough for me to attend a game. There are more fans than there are teams. I get League Pass EVERY year.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 11/15/17 2:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Marc Berman in the New York Post:

http://nypost.com/2017/11/14/liberty-sale-puts-team-isiah-thomas-future-in-limbo/



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Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships. Now she is part of the Senior Management Team of UNICEF USA.
toad455



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PostPosted: 11/15/17 8:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Owner James Dolan announced Tuesday he’s selling the Liberty and Thomas is probably not going to remain when new ownership arrives. Nobody from the Garden will say Thomas is definitely done, but the writing is on the wall.


so it does appear as though a new ownership group is in place, but it's not Thomas.

Quote:
Sources told The Post Dolan was on the verge of selling the Liberty three years ago before the idea hatched of having Thomas run the women’s team.


Interesting.

Quote:
Now the Garden — and perhaps New York City — will be without WNBA basketball. The warning signs were there when coach Bill Laimbeer jumped ship for the new Las Vegas franchise last month.... The Liberty’s average attendance this season of 9,889 was fourth in the WNBA but still not a moneymaker for Dolan, who could fill the Garden with other entertainment events. Attendance went up 8 percent across Thomas’ three seasons.


So more than likely the new ownership group won't keep the team at MSG, or even in New York.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/15/17 9:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting ... and scary.

First, New York is more than just a big market -- it's a media and cultural center that draws the attention of major corporations and elite individual achievers. (Note Taylor Swift's song on "1989.")

Second, if Dolan had a buyer lined up, why not just announce the sale? Which leads me to believe there is no buyer, especially given Dolan's quotes in the story, which try to make the product more attractive.

Finally, if there is no buyer -- though I would hope some rich females might step forward if all seemed lost -- it's a devastating blow to the WNBA, and perhaps even fatal. If a franchise that draws 7,500 or so actual bodies each night, in New York no less, has zero value, then the league's 20 years have accomplished very little in terms of creating a viable sports enterprise.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 11/15/17 9:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the Liberty were to fold, it would be the near death of the league. Similar to if the Sparks were to fold. Not having a team in New York would bring the league down a tier and basically make it look like a start-up league. For a league that's been around for 22 seasons, it doesn't seem like they've made much progress in terms of solid ownerships.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 11/15/17 11:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Madison Square Garden's CEO has been ousted:

https://nypost.com/2017/11/14/madison-square-garden-ceo-ousted-over-beef-with-irving-azoff/



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Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships. Now she is part of the Senior Management Team of UNICEF USA.
Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 11/15/17 11:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Marc Berman in the New York Post:

http://nypost.com/2017/11/14/liberty-sale-puts-team-isiah-thomas-future-in-limbo/


Yes, poor poor Isiah. His future is in limbo. My heart bleeds. His is the fate that is most important in this scenario.



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