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pilight



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PostPosted: 11/02/17 7:42 am    ::: AP Poll Reply Reply with quote

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/ap-womens-basketball-poll-preseason

1 UConn (unanimous
2 Texas
3 Baylor
4 South Carolina
5 Ohio State
6 Notre Dame
7 Mississippi State
8 UCLA
9 Louisville
10 Stanford
11 Oregon
12 Duke
13 West Virginia
14 Tennessee
15 Maryland
16 Missouri
17 Marquette
18 Florida State
19 Oregon State
20 California
20 Texas A&M
22 Oklahoma
23 South Florida
24 Michigan
25 DePaul



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PostPosted: 11/02/17 9:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It must be a bad year if Cal and Oregon State are in the top 20.

Remember, Cal lost to Baylor by 40 last year and was 6-12 in the Pac-12.

Oregon State lost a lot to graduation.

And though I have a high opinion of Kelly Graves, for Oregon to be No. 11 after just one year of production is further evidence that there's just not a lot of depth, in terms of quality teams, in women's basketball.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/02/17 10:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I suspect it also reflects a general lack of knowledge and interest by the media. Something tells me that many of these voters have no clue, and certainly haven't been studying or analyzing teams before games start being played, and that many votes are based principally on name recognition and history.


mzonefan



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PostPosted: 11/02/17 12:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
I suspect it also reflects a general lack of knowledge and interest by the media. Something tells me that many of these voters have no clue, and certainly haven't been studying or analyzing teams before games start being played, and that many votes are based principally on name recognition and history.


At least the media did better at this than the USA Today Coaches. USATC put Washington at #25. The PAC-12's Media poll put Washington at the very bottom of that conference!


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PostPosted: 11/02/17 12:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Don't even LOOK at the Sports Illustrated poll then! Rolling Eyes Of course they don't even cover the sport, so.... But it looks like they either put a bunch of teams in a hat and pulled them out, or put names on a wall and threw darts or knives or balls of mud at them.....



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linkster



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PostPosted: 11/02/17 3:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

14. Tennessee
15. Maryland

Last year Maryland was ranked 4th in the final AP poll with 725 votes while Tennessee finished in a tie for 35th, with 3 votes. Both teams lost several players. Maryland lost more and their drop from 4th to 15th isn't undeserved. Tennessee brings back Russell, Nared and needs to replace about 110 of their 200 minutes. And the media moves them up 21 positions in the rankings?

The same media that for the last 7 years has promoted Deshields as one of the very best talents in all wbb, a potential No 1 draft pick, suddenly realizes that she was in reality a poisonous cancer on her team and that her departure will cure the things that ailed the LV's last year?


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 11/02/17 4:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
14. Tennessee
15. Maryland

Last year Maryland was ranked 4th in the final AP poll with 725 votes while Tennessee finished in a tie for 35th, with 3 votes. Both teams lost several players. Maryland lost more and their drop from 4th to 15th isn't undeserved. Tennessee brings back Russell, Nared and needs to replace about 110 of their 200 minutes. And the media moves them up 21 positions in the rankings?


Quote:
The same media that for the last 7 years has promoted Deshields as one of the very best talents in all wbb, a potential No 1 draft pick, suddenly realizes that she was in reality a poisonous cancer on her team and that her departure will cure the things that ailed the LV's last year?


Tennessee would most likely be Top 5 This year if Diamond & Tea' had stayed so your argument does not have any validation .



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linkster



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PostPosted: 11/02/17 5:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:


Tennessee would most likely be Top 5 This year if Diamond & Tea' had stayed so your argument does not have any validation .


Maybe 5th in the preseason polls. The facts support my view that as far as Tenn is concerned the AP preseason poll has been grossly wrong.

During the Deshields era at Tenn the LVs started each year ranked 4th in the AP poll. They ended 2016 ranked 32 and in 2017 ended at 35th.
Those are the facts and there is little to support that another year of Deshields would have ended any differently.

When a team finishes back to back seasons ranked 32nd and 35th it's time to realize that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes. Don't you think?


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PostPosted: 11/02/17 5:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:


Tennessee would most likely be Top 5 This year if Diamond & Tea' had stayed so your argument does not have any validation .


Maybe 5th in the preseason polls. The facts support my view that as far as Tenn is concerned the AP preseason poll has been grossly wrong.

During the Deshields era at Tenn the LVs started each year ranked 4th in the AP poll. They ended 2016 ranked 32 and in 2017 ended at 35th.
Those are the facts and there is little to support that another year of Deshields would have ended any differently.

When a team finishes back to back seasons ranked 32nd and 35th it's time to realize that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes. Don't you think?


Your basing Tennessee's preseason rank off past failures not accounting for the new players who have had no part in the past. With the past talent included with this years #1 Class and returning of Tea' they would be a Top 5 team thats without question. Im not contesting your statement of the NCAA being idiots with the way they rank teams before they play but i am contesting how you used Tennessee as a benchmark when there are other teams like Maryland, UCLA , West Virginia , Duke ect ..



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linkster



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PostPosted: 11/02/17 7:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
linkster wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:


Tennessee would most likely be Top 5 This year if Diamond & Tea' had stayed so your argument does not have any validation .


Maybe 5th in the preseason polls. The facts support my view that as far as Tenn is concerned the AP preseason poll has been grossly wrong.

During the Deshields era at Tenn the LVs started each year ranked 4th in the AP poll. They ended 2016 ranked 32 and in 2017 ended at 35th.
Those are the facts and there is little to support that another year of Deshields would have ended any differently.

When a team finishes back to back seasons ranked 32nd and 35th it's time to realize that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes. Don't you think?


Your basing Tennessee's preseason rank off past failures not accounting for the new players who have had no part in the past. With the past talent included with this years #1 Class and returning of Tea' they would be a Top 5 team thats without question. Im not contesting your statement of the NCAA being idiots with the way they rank teams before they play but i am contesting how you used Tennessee as a benchmark when there are other teams like Maryland, UCLA , West Virginia , Duke ect ..


The fact is that Deshields, Cooper, et al aren't there and yet the AP voters have the LV's improving 21 rankings from where they finished last year. With their loss of players Maryland's rank dropped 11 slots. If you don't see the obvious incongruity I don't have anything else to say.


willtalk



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PostPosted: 11/02/17 9:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It seems that the press is somewhat enamored with the Tenn. Name.


Jlcarter



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PostPosted: 11/02/17 9:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
linkster wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:


Tennessee would most likely be Top 5 This year if Diamond & Tea' had stayed so your argument does not have any validation .


Maybe 5th in the preseason polls. The facts support my view that as far as Tenn is concerned the AP preseason poll has been grossly wrong.

During the Deshields era at Tenn the LVs started each year ranked 4th in the AP poll. They ended 2016 ranked 32 and in 2017 ended at 35th.
Those are the facts and there is little to support that another year of Deshields would have ended any differently.

When a team finishes back to back seasons ranked 32nd and 35th it's time to realize that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes. Don't you think?


Your basing Tennessee's preseason rank off past failures not accounting for the new players who have had no part in the past. With the past talent included with this years #1 Class and returning of Tea' they would be a Top 5 team thats without question. Im not contesting your statement of the NCAA being idiots with the way they rank teams before they play but i am contesting how you used Tennessee as a benchmark when there are other teams like Maryland, UCLA , West Virginia , Duke ect ..


The fact is that Deshields, Cooper, et al aren't there and yet the AP voters have the LV's improving 21 rankings from where they finished last year. With their loss of players Maryland's rank dropped 11 slots. If you don't see the obvious incongruity I don't have anything else to say.

Maryland lost the top three leading scorers. Tenn brought in the top recruiting class.


linkster



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PostPosted: 11/02/17 11:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jlcarter wrote:
linkster wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
linkster wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:


Tennessee would most likely be Top 5 This year if Diamond & Tea' had stayed so your argument does not have any validation .


Maybe 5th in the preseason polls. The facts support my view that as far as Tenn is concerned the AP preseason poll has been grossly wrong.

During the Deshields era at Tenn the LVs started each year ranked 4th in the AP poll. They ended 2016 ranked 32 and in 2017 ended at 35th.
Those are the facts and there is little to support that another year of Deshields would have ended any differently.

When a team finishes back to back seasons ranked 32nd and 35th it's time to realize that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes. Don't you think?


Your basing Tennessee's preseason rank off past failures not accounting for the new players who have had no part in the past. With the past talent included with this years #1 Class and returning of Tea' they would be a Top 5 team thats without question. Im not contesting your statement of the NCAA being idiots with the way they rank teams before they play but i am contesting how you used Tennessee as a benchmark when there are other teams like Maryland, UCLA , West Virginia , Duke ect ..


The fact is that Deshields, Cooper, et al aren't there and yet the AP voters have the LV's improving 21 rankings from where they finished last year. With their loss of players Maryland's rank dropped 11 slots. If you don't see the obvious incongruity I don't have anything else to say.

Maryland lost the top three leading scorers. Tenn brought in the top recruiting class.


Apples and oranges. Tenn lost their starting 1, 2 and 3, one of which was their top scorer. In addition they lost their projected starting pg who was coming off an injury. In any case even if MD lost more the fact remains that they dropped 11 ranks while Tenn rose 21 ranks. That's a difference of 32 rankings that is hard to justify with an untested freshman class.

If you go back through the last 9 years you'll see an obvious pattern of Tenn rarely living up to their preseason ranking and in more than a couple of years failing badly. The voters seem blinded by a logo that no longer lives up to it's legacy.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/03/17 10:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So back in the day, AP sent someone to every game by a top 25 team and to every major conference game. Now they only send someone to top 10 games.

On top of that, due to staff cuts, most of those who cover women's basketball are not full-timers, but stringers.

When it comes to the poll, however, only full-time employees can vote (or at least that's how it was), so when I was covering colleges on a regular basis, I couldn't vote. Instead, the staffers would vote -- though at that time they probably saw a few games.

But now, overworked AP staffers -- who are justifiably completely focused on football and men's basketball -- have to throw together a women's top 25, and basically, they just don't want to look stupid. So Tennessee is a great vote, because it's easy and it's justifiable to the vast majority of casual sports fans.

Ideally, AP would create a separate group of non-staffers who cover women's basketball on a regular basis (if they could find very many) and have them do the poll, but that's way too much trouble for a sport not many people care about deeply.



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 11/03/17 11:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
So back in the day, AP sent someone to every game by a top 25 team and to every major conference game. Now they only send someone to top 10 games.

On top of that, due to staff cuts, most of those who cover women's basketball are not full-timers, but stringers.

When it comes to the poll, however, only full-time employees can vote (or at least that's how it was), so when I was covering colleges on a regular basis, I couldn't vote. Instead, the staffers would vote -- though at that time they probably saw a few games.

But now, overworked AP staffers -- who are justifiably completely focused on football and men's basketball -- have to throw together a women's top 25, and basically, they just don't want to look stupid. So Tennessee is a great vote, because it's easy and it's justifiable to the vast majority of casual sports fans.

Ideally, AP would create a separate group of non-staffers who cover women's basketball on a regular basis (if they could find very many) and have them do the poll, but that's way too much trouble for a sport not many people care about deeply.


In truth even the most informed individuals are generally not the best predictors. Once you get past Connecticut there are a basket of teams (Baylor, South Carolina, Ohio State) that are very likely to be top 10 by the end of the season. The rest of the top 12 should be in the top 25. When it comes to predictions, I think the more accurate are the media predictions for individual conferences, but even those are suspect.

As for Oregon St. and Cal, I believe both have Sweet 16 potential so I have no problem with their rankings. I see the Pac 12 this year as once again the best, most balanced conference top to bottom, albeit without a true national championship contender. Going into the season only Arizona and Washington seem incapable of getting into the NCAA tournament.


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PostPosted: 11/03/17 11:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
So back in the day, AP sent someone to every game by a top 25 team and to every major conference game. Now they only send someone to top 10 games.

On top of that, due to staff cuts, most of those who cover women's basketball are not full-timers, but stringers.

When it comes to the poll, however, only full-time employees can vote (or at least that's how it was), so when I was covering colleges on a regular basis, I couldn't vote. Instead, the staffers would vote -- though at that time they probably saw a few games.

But now, overworked AP staffers -- who are justifiably completely focused on football and men's basketball -- have to throw together a women's top 25, and basically, they just don't want to look stupid. So Tennessee is a great vote, because it's easy and it's justifiable to the vast majority of casual sports fans.

Ideally, AP would create a separate group of non-staffers who cover women's basketball on a regular basis (if they could find very many) and have them do the poll, but that's way too much trouble for a sport not many people care about deeply.


In truth even the most informed individuals are generally not the best predictors. Once you get past Connecticut there are a basket of teams (Baylor, South Carolina, Ohio State) that are very likely to be top 10 by the end of the season. The rest of the top 12 should be in the top 25. When it comes to predictions, I think the more accurate are the media predictions for individual conferences, but even those are suspect.

As for Oregon St. and Cal, I believe both have Sweet 16 potential so I have no problem with their rankings. I see the Pac 12 this year as once again the best, most balanced conference top to bottom, albeit without a true national championship contender. Going into the season only Arizona and Washington seem incapable of getting into the NCAA tournament.


I disagree , Oregon state might have trouble even making the tournament this year. Oregon is this conferences strongest team followed by Stanford then theres a major drop off. SEC will be the strongest possibly even the Big 10 depending on Rutgers performance this season with Scaife returning. Maryland & Ohio State will keep there conference afloat .



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/03/17 11:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
So back in the day, AP sent someone to every game by a top 25 team and to every major conference game. Now they only send someone to top 10 games.

On top of that, due to staff cuts, most of those who cover women's basketball are not full-timers, but stringers.

When it comes to the poll, however, only full-time employees can vote (or at least that's how it was), so when I was covering colleges on a regular basis, I couldn't vote. Instead, the staffers would vote -- though at that time they probably saw a few games.

But now, overworked AP staffers -- who are justifiably completely focused on football and men's basketball -- have to throw together a women's top 25, and basically, they just don't want to look stupid. So Tennessee is a great vote, because it's easy and it's justifiable to the vast majority of casual sports fans.

Ideally, AP would create a separate group of non-staffers who cover women's basketball on a regular basis (if they could find very many) and have them do the poll, but that's way too much trouble for a sport not many people care about deeply.


In truth even the most informed individuals are generally not the best predictors. Once you get past Connecticut there are a basket of teams (Baylor, South Carolina, Ohio State) that are very likely to be top 10 by the end of the season. The rest of the top 12 should be in the top 25. When it comes to predictions, I think the more accurate are the media predictions for individual conferences, but even those are suspect.

As for Oregon St. and Cal, I believe both have Sweet 16 potential so I have no problem with their rankings. I see the Pac 12 this year as once again the best, most balanced conference top to bottom, albeit without a true national championship contender. Going into the season only Arizona and Washington seem incapable of getting into the NCAA tournament.


Again, Cal -- a team I follow -- was 6-12 in the conference last year and lost by 40 to Baylor. They lost a three-year starter (maybe four) and cannot shoot from the perimeter.

They have a couple nice freshmen who should be solid Pac-12 players and they have a legit all-American in Kristine Anigwe, but it's hard for me to see them making the Sweet 16. I think just making the tournament would be achievement enough.

All that said, the Pac-12 is a very balanced league this year, and, especially at home, Cal could beat anyone because if the threes are dropping -- which they will on occasion -- Anigwe will go into beast mode in the paint.

Oregon State is extremely well coached, I expect Mark Trakh to make an immediate impact at USC, and Washington State is sneaky good, especially in Pullman.

So I would expect the teams to beat each other up, to an extent, but come postseason, the teams most likely to succeed are Stanford, UCLA and maybe Oregon.

The rest have exploitable weaknesses that quality teams like Baylor will take full advantage of.



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PostPosted: 11/03/17 12:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
linkster wrote:
14. Tennessee
15. Maryland

Last year Maryland was ranked 4th in the final AP poll with 725 votes while Tennessee finished in a tie for 35th, with 3 votes. Both teams lost several players. Maryland lost more and their drop from 4th to 15th isn't undeserved. Tennessee brings back Russell, Nared and needs to replace about 110 of their 200 minutes. And the media moves them up 21 positions in the rankings?


Quote:
The same media that for the last 7 years has promoted Deshields as one of the very best talents in all wbb, a potential No 1 draft pick, suddenly realizes that she was in reality a poisonous cancer on her team and that her departure will cure the things that ailed the LV's last year?


Tennessee would most likely be Top 5 This year if Diamond & Tea' had stayed so your argument does not have any validation .


Meh. Far as I'm concerned, those two are most responsible for ruining the chemistry of the entire team. They're better off gone. Razz



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PostPosted: 11/03/17 7:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think UCLA has the strongest roster in the Pac and also the deepest. However, they also have Cori Close.


Phil



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PostPosted: 11/06/17 3:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think the high-ranking of Texas either is an end of year projection or someone missed that Joyner Holmes won't be back until December 23.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 11/06/17 3:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
linkster wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:


Tennessee would most likely be Top 5 This year if Diamond & Tea' had stayed so your argument does not have any validation .


Maybe 5th in the preseason polls. The facts support my view that as far as Tenn is concerned the AP preseason poll has been grossly wrong.

During the Deshields era at Tenn the LVs started each year ranked 4th in the AP poll. They ended 2016 ranked 32 and in 2017 ended at 35th.
Those are the facts and there is little to support that another year of Deshields would have ended any differently.

When a team finishes back to back seasons ranked 32nd and 35th it's time to realize that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes. Don't you think?


Your basing Tennessee's preseason rank off past failures not accounting for the new players who have had no part in the past. With the past talent included with this years #1 Class and returning of Tea' they would be a Top 5 team thats without question. Im not contesting your statement of the NCAA being idiots with the way they rank teams before they play but i am contesting how you used Tennessee as a benchmark when there are other teams like Maryland, UCLA , West Virginia , Duke ect ..


The fact is that Deshields, Cooper, et al aren't there and yet the AP voters have the LV's improving 21 rankings from where they finished last year. With their loss of players Maryland's rank dropped 11 slots. If you don't see the obvious incongruity I don't have anything else to say.


Either the pollsters are
A) currently uninformed and lazy, but with some name recognition of teams with past glory, leading to a respectable Tenn ranking, or
B) well-informed with keen analytic and mathematical abilities, recognizing that the departure of DeShields is addition (of about 12-15 poll spots) by subtraction, and ditto for Cooper (another 8 poll spots), and therefore Tenn's ranking is based on sound arithmetic and wholly justified.

My personal opinion is that I do believe in the the addition by subtraction phenomenon, and while I think a preseason ranking of 14 is too high for a team with a preponderance of untested freshmen, by the end of the season, I expect Tenn's ranking to be higher than this.


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PostPosted: 11/06/17 5:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Phil wrote:
I think the high-ranking of Texas either is an end of year projection or someone missed that Joyner Holmes won't be back until December 23.


Or they knew that Rellah Booth would be suiting up also . Both those 2 on the court at the same time will be unstoppable imo.



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PostPosted: 11/07/17 12:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

With this poll AND the coaches' poll having Oklahoma in the top 25, I'm scratching my head. A Lot. Shocked I'd love for someone to tell me it's legit.



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PostPosted: 11/07/17 10:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Phil wrote:
I think the high-ranking of Texas either is an end of year projection or someone missed that Joyner Holmes won't be back until December 23.


Or they knew that Rellah Booth would be suiting up also . Both those 2 on the court at the same time will be unstoppable imo.


If Rellah Boothe plays hard all the time, she'll be a force. Unfortunately, that has not been her trademark up to this point in her career ...



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willtalk



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PostPosted: 11/07/17 4:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
.

-----------I disagree , Oregon state might have trouble even making the tournament this year..-----.


The Oregon St.coach's always seem to over achieve in respect to the teams talent. They were not projected to win the Pac 12 last year as well. I did think he made coaching mistakes that cost them the FS simi final game in the West Regionals. They should have won that game. Hey Wiese was 1 for 11 on three's and they were still leading until the end. They were too reliant of Sidney. When she went cold their offense sputtered.

Now this season might bear out your prediction, but until they fail I will continue to expect them to overachieve in respect to their talent level.


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