| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8942
Back to top |
|
calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5155
Location: Carson City
Back to top |
 Posted: 11/05/17 5:57 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
At least 25 dead in Texas. Eight dead in New York. 58 dead in Las Vegas. The president cries out about an incident that, while horrific, killed only 2 Americans. "We must act on immigration, he rants." But when the death toll is far higher not a word about guns. And yet imagine how much worse the tragedy in New York would have been if the terrorist had emerged from his truck with a semiautomatic gun with a bumpstock instead of a paint ball gun or a pellet gun.
I feel for all of the dead and their families. You shouldn't have to worry about dying at the hands of someone you don't know when you are at a concert, on vacation or at church. And the sad truth is that we will never end all of these incidents. But if we take sensible steps towards controlling guns we can limit some of these senseless attacks, or at least the scale of them.
For those who think this is not the time to politicize the issue, sorry. You are wrong. If we wait until someone is not murdered by gun violence for even one day we will never be able to act. The time to act was long ago. We must move forward NOW.
|
|
Ay Mate
Joined: 12 Nov 2016
Posts: 1280
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/05/17 6:02 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Welcome to the Trump era. While not directly responsible, this is 100% because of Trump.
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/05/17 6:10 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| cue the gun freak...
_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8942
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/05/17 7:28 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Quote: |
The killer, pursued by a good Samaritan with a gun, was found fatally shot a short time later in a neighboring Texas county, said a law enforcement official who is not authorized to comment publicly.
As the suspect left the church, Martin said, a bystander retrieved his rifle and began firing at the shooter, who dropped his Ruger and drove away. |
The pastor's 14 year old daughter was one of those killed.
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
|
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8225
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/05/17 8:24 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| calbearman76 wrote: |
"We must act on immigration, he rants." But when the death toll is far higher not a word about guns.
For those who think this is not the time to politicize the issue, sorry. You are wrong. If we wait until someone is not murdered by gun violence for even one day we will never be able to act. The time to act was long ago. We must move forward NOW. |
Another horrible tragedy, but everyone needs to understand that there is a vast constitutional and hence political difference between controlling immigration and controlling guns.
There is no constitutional right to migrate into America. Congress has plenary authority to control immigration and has given almost all that authority to the President. Therefore, Congress and the President have unfettered authority over immigration (except in the politicized minds of few rogue lower federal judges who have been and will continue to be slapped down by the Supreme Court).
In contrast, there is very little that Congress, the President or the states can do about controlling guns, because the Second Amendment gives all Americans the right to keep and bear arms. Virtually all controls that are constitutional have already been put in place in the various states. The only remaining possible controls that are constitutional will be tinkerings at the existing margins.
Indeed, the current reports are that it was an armed citizen who stopped the Texas killer today:
Texas Rangers: Armed Citizen ‘Engaged’ Killer, Ending Rampage
| Quote: |
| . . . the suspect dropped his rifle and fled after being confronted by a local man who had grabbed his rifle. |
Ranting in frustration about gun control will not change the constitutional reality. Meanwhile, on the other hand, it is politically possible to put in place all sorts of immigration controls to reduce terror and drug threats, including stopping immigration altogether. |
|
Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
Back to top |
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/05/17 10:41 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
At least until the idiocy that is Heller is looked at again by a saner court. Then perhaps we could get some decent gun control that would actually help something.
As I will say every time this comes up after a big event like this, the reason to have gun control isn't for these mass shootings. They are small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. It is the every day violence that is most likely to harm us. It's the road rage event, the domestic assault, the suicidal child, the accidental shooting, the heat of the moment argument, the escalated fight.
Just like it is beyond stupid to target immigrants over terrorist attacks. While they are high profile events, we are not really in much danger from them. So sacrificing our ideals and compassion for irrational fear for "saftey" is a poor tradeoff.
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5155
Location: Carson City
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/06/17 12:03 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| justintyme wrote: |
At least until the idiocy that is Heller is looked at again by a saner court. Then perhaps we could get some decent gun control that would actually help something.
As I will say every time this comes up after a big event like this, the reason to have gun control isn't for these mass shootings. They are small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. It is the every day violence that is most likely to harm us. It's the road rage event, the domestic assault, the suicidal child, the accidental shooting, the heat of the moment argument, the escalated fight.
Just like it is beyond stupid to target immigrants over terrorist attacks. While they are high profile events, we are not really in much danger from them. So sacrificing our ideals and compassion for irrational fear for "saftey" is a poor tradeoff. |
I only mildly disagree. Both aspects are important reasons for gun control. Most everyday shootings ( what a horrible concept ) are people that know one another. But these mass shootings like Las Vegas, Texas, Orlando, San Bernardino and so many others are taking so many lives that are unknown to the shooters. I'm not saying this is necessarily worse but it is a distinctly different problem. I agree that the gun problem is far greater than just the mass shootings and it would be incorrect to only try to cure the most recent tragedy, we must start somewhere. Look at the entirety of the problem, but don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good and move forward wherever we can.
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15734
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/06/17 12:33 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| There is no constitutional right to migrate into America. |
Hmm. I wonder if THAT 'omission' resulted from the probability that The Constitution's Composers/signers could all remember their own immigrant ancestors, and therefore never even sought to address such a needless (at that time) concern, i.e., Illegal Immigration might not have even been a *thing* back then.
Now, HAD THEY MAGICALLY KNOWN WHAT PROBLEMS LIE AHEAD....with both Ramped Up Gunpower AND Illegal Immigration...??
My point: just cuz something is IN or NOT IN the Constitution as we now have it, doesn't mean it's written in stone, or to be ignored forevermore. Adaptability is a hallmark feature of a document that's intended to transcend time.
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
taropatch
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 814
Location: Kau Rubbish Dump
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/06/17 7:37 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Quote: |
| President Donald Trump said Monday that Sunday's mass shooting at a Texas church "isn't a guns situation" but instead "a mental health problem at the highest level." |
Our executive branch has a similar problem at the highest level, punk!
|
|
Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/06/17 8:13 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| justintyme wrote: |
At least until the idiocy that is Heller is looked at again by a saner court. Then perhaps we could get some decent gun control that would actually help something.
As I will say every time this comes up after a big event like this, the reason to have gun control isn't for these mass shootings. They are small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. It is the every day violence that is most likely to harm us. It's the road rage event, the domestic assault, the suicidal child, the accidental shooting, the heat of the moment argument, the escalated fight.
Just like it is beyond stupid to target immigrants over terrorist attacks. While they are high profile events, we are not really in much danger from them. So sacrificing our ideals and compassion for irrational fear for "saftey" is a poor tradeoff. |
I pretty much agree. Mass shootings are a very unlikely way to die. Much more likely is to kill yourself (suicides are are almost 3 times as common as murders), or be killed by someone you know (spouse, jilted lover, jealous person whose sex partner you were cheating with, friend you played poker with, etc.) Murder by a stranger is less likely. Car accident fatalities are more common than murder.
Will I would certainly like to see more effective gun control, in a country where there 101 guns per 100 people - it's a little late. My thought is if you want to keep yourself safe from gun violence - don't buy a gun (you might kill yourself or someone else.) Instead buy body armour and where it over your clothing.
|
|
PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16358
Location: Chicago
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/06/17 10:14 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| taropatch wrote: |
| Quote: |
| President Donald Trump said Monday that Sunday's mass shooting at a Texas church "isn't a guns situation" but instead "a mental health problem at the highest level." |
|
Then what are his plans to address mental health problems in a way that will lead to fewer mass shootings?
|
|
Ay Mate
Joined: 12 Nov 2016
Posts: 1280
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/06/17 11:21 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Well, Trump IS an expert on mental health problems.,,,
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/06/17 1:21 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I wonder what it is about America that makes our mentally ill so much more deadly than other countries'. If only I could put my finger on it...
Obviously guns are not the root cause of violence, but what they are is an accelerant. An accelerant that is in need of serious regulation, yet due to SCOTUS rulings, are not able to be in any consequential way.
Our only hope is that people wake up to the reality of guns, or a future court undoes the damage of Heller.
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/06/17 2:34 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| what's wrong with white men? probably a christian, too.
_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 11188
Back to top |
|
Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8942
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/06/17 9:32 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| The Air Force failed to alert the FBI of the shooter's DV conviction which allowed him to by the gun he used.
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
|
|
sambista
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 16951
Location: way station of life
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/07/17 6:18 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| PUmatty wrote: |
| taropatch wrote: |
| Quote: |
| President Donald Trump said Monday that Sunday's mass shooting at a Texas church "isn't a guns situation" but instead "a mental health problem at the highest level." |
|
Then what are his plans to address mental health problems in a way that will lead to fewer mass shootings? |
i'm afraid trump is too slippery and no reporter is adept enough to trap him into answering (then) why he signed h.j.res. 40, rolling back obama's rule directing social security to report mentally impaired beneficiaries. granted, a narrrow segment of potential gun-toters, but still.
_________________
no justice, no peace.
|
|
|
|
