| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
scullyfu
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 8859
Location: Niagara Falls
Back to top |
 Posted: 10/20/17 7:35 am ::: |
Reply  |
|
| tfan wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
Again, IMO..dancing is simply sensual. This style of dancing has been around for decades (maybe longer). |
What is new I think, is the musical star dancing like that, versus just professional dancers doing it. |
seems you never saw Ike & Tina Turner. I remember seeing Tina & her dancers on tv shaking their stuff waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back when. I also remember people calling her a slut for her what was then viewed as sexualized clothes & dancing style. of course, back then society had not evolved into the 24/7 MTV influences.
_________________
i'll always bleed Storm green.
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/20/17 9:10 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| cthskzfn wrote: |
Not as disappointed as I am by the inability of some to comprehend the difference between describing someone as "acting" like a slut and calling them a slut. |
Not sure why the distinction matter in this context. The problem is the word's way of shaming the actions of women just because they enjoy (or appear to enjoy) lots of sexual parters. It presupposes that there is something wrong with that, that it somehow makes a woman "dirty".
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21927
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/20/17 9:36 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| [deleted]
_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/20/17 10:42 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| justintyme wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
Not as disappointed as I am by the inability of some to comprehend the difference between describing someone as "acting" like a slut and calling them a slut. |
Not sure why the distinction matter in this context. The problem is the word's way of shaming the actions of women just because they enjoy (or appear to enjoy) lots of sexual parters. It presupposes that there is something wrong with that, that it somehow makes a woman "dirty". |
Lol. The dudes behind her are acting just as slutty and ridiculous, however, they aren't the topic.
Good example of PC run amuck.
_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/20/17 11:00 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Not referring to people who act sexual or enjoy lots of casual sex, or shaming them for a perfectly legitimate lifestyle choice, is hardly PC gone amuck. The fact that "slut" is an incredibly loaded word just makes it worse.
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/20/17 12:46 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| justintyme wrote: |
| Not referring to people who act sexual or enjoy lots of casual sex, or shaming them for a perfectly legitimate lifestyle choice, is hardly PC gone amuck. The fact that "slut" is an incredibly loaded word just makes it worse. |
Did you omit the words "as sluts"?
Anyway, the PC run amok is you telling me i can't refer to this silly titillation routine, done for the sake of fame and fortune, as slutty.
Also, i have no idea why u bring casual sex into the mix. I'm referring to the video and the acting within by Lopez..
_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/20/17 1:02 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Because that is literally the definition of "slut".
By saying what you are here you are propagating the idea that being a "slut" or "slutty" is a negative, and that even the appearance of being sexually "loose" is bad.
And since the term is used to try and shame/control the behavior of women, to minimize their choices as sexual beings, every time it is used with a negative connotation it entrenches that harmful ideology even more.
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/20/17 3:34 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Indeed. I define a woman's ability to be a sexual being by commenting on a video performance by an actress.
That is some seriously specious horseshit.
_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66900
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/20/17 3:35 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| cthskzfn wrote: |
| Indeed. I define a woman's ability to be a sexual being by commenting on a video performance by an actress. |
You define it by using the word "slut"
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15734
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/20/17 5:35 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Howee wrote: |
| I also don't wanna hear about the Standards for Respecting Women when they behave in ways that do NOT command respect. |
I have always respected overtly sexual and/or sexually promiscuous women and badass sexually provocative babes and entertainers. Call them tramps, whores, hoes, sluts... whatever. Sexy skilled manipulators. God dammit! I love them and I do respect them. Whatever that says about me I don't know. Or care. I do also have a healthy self-respect for my own world view. I could just as easily have married an ex-prostitute as I did the good girl that I did.
Just sayin'. To each his own.
#notdisgusted
|
|
Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21927
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/20/17 6:54 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
To me, when "slut" is used as an insult, it's a sign of defeat. It says more about the person saying it than the target they're aiming at. Like resorting to violence when losing a verbal argument, you've already lost once you go there, even if you do hurt the other person. And typically, it's the last cry of someone who's bitter about either being rejected by someone, or having no chance with them to begin with. Which just makes it all the more ironic as an attempted insult.
I'm pretty sure I used the word myself as an immature high schooler, or at least let it slide when hearing it in conversations. Thankfully I wised up over the years.
People should ask themselves what they're really trying to say when throwing that word out there in the context of an insult. What's really at the heart of it that is so bad? I've heard it used plenty, and 19 times out of 20 what it really meant was "Wahh! I'm jealous/bitter/butthurt and lashing out is all I got"
Going back to the original "point", I don't see what's so wrong with J-Lo's dancing either. You don't like it, don't go to her concert. After a quick Youtube search I didn't spot the alleged slutty sex in question though so I can't really comment about what prompted this thread. I'm surprised it was allowed on regular TV though.
_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15734
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/21/17 12:34 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Luuuc wrote: |
| To me, when "slut" is used as an insult, it's a sign of defeat.....Going back to the original "point", I don't see what's so wrong with J-Lo's dancing either. |
I still missed anyone invoking "slut" here as an insult. And no one I saw declared JLo's dancing as 'wrong'. At least, I didn't. She has my full blessing to do it as much as she needs. But I do still contend that there is a double standard wherein High Profile Women are glorified for the sexiest/sluttiest performances they can muster AT THE SAME TIME men are being chastised for treating women as mere sex objects. No, Weinstein didn't assault JLo or Beyoncé (I don't believe, at least)....it's not that direct a link. But there's a dissonance that resonates like fingernails on a chalkboard.
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/21/17 12:56 am ::: |
Reply |
|
While it might not be a negative to you, the word is freighted with years upon years of ugly, negative connotations.
Take something like black face, for example. Say I dress up as Obama for Halloween because he is a personal hero of mine. So I throw on black face to get the look down. My intention is good, I'm not mocking, I am legitimately trying to honor him. But, because black face is so weighted with an ugly, racist history, my intention becomes irrelevant.
Perhaps there will come a time when the word os no longer freighted by patriarchal oppression and puritanical ideology, but we really aren't even close to that yet.
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21927
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/21/17 2:14 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Howee wrote: |
| I still missed anyone invoking "slut" here as an insult. And no one I saw declared JLo's dancing as 'wrong'. At least, I didn't. She has my full blessing to do it as much as she needs. But I do still contend that there is a double standard wherein High Profile Women are glorified for the sexiest/sluttiest performances they can muster AT THE SAME TIME men are being chastised for treating women as mere sex objects. No, Weinstein didn't assault JLo or Beyoncé (I don't believe, at least)....it's not that direct a link. But there's a dissonance that resonates like fingernails on a chalkboard. |
Ok, so just so I understand your point correctly, you're disgusted enough by J-Lo dancing that you use her name in the same sentence as Harvey Weinstein. (I watched a couple of minutes of the video you linked and I am still not following what you're on about). You mention the "slutty red sequined thing" she was wearing in another clip that prompted your disgust, and use the word again as an example of "Glorifying Females Emulating Sluts For Fame and Fortune"
But you're now claiming that you didn't use the word in a derogatory manner? Is that right??  I'm really struggling to find any shred of credibility to attach to that claim.
What's far worse though:
| Quote: |
| The dance moves are EXPLICITELY inviting and encouraging the kind of behaviors that (other) women are claiming to have unwillingly forced upon them. |
WTF??? Dance moves on a stage invite and encourage sexual assault / rape and just general abuse and degrading treatment?
I think you've lost the plot here. It's 2 very different things at play here and the supposed link is beyond tenuous IMO based on all the reports I have read of normal working situations (which I feel pretty safe in assuming did not all consist of actresses wearing slutty numbers and emulating sluts) turning into getting Weinsteined.
| Howee wrote: |
LADEEEEZ......Don't forget that y'all use slutty sex to sell, and it has to be an extraordinarily mixed message being received by young men.
Yes. Disgust. |
Going back to the slut well for a 3rd time, but once again, no derogatory meaning implied, right? I mean, I probably can't even argue on that one. What even is slutty sex and how does it differ from regular sex?
But really, as much as I think using the word "slut" is sad, it's definitely not the most worrying part of the post.
_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15734
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/21/17 8:17 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Luuuc wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| I still missed anyone invoking "slut" here as an insult. And no one I saw declared JLo's dancing as 'wrong'. At least, I didn't. She has my full blessing to do it as much as she needs. But I do still contend that there is a double standard wherein High Profile Women are glorified for the sexiest/sluttiest performances they can muster AT THE SAME TIME men are being chastised for treating women as mere sex objects. No, Weinstein didn't assault JLo or Beyoncé (I don't believe, at least)....it's not that direct a link. But there's a dissonance that resonates like fingernails on a chalkboard. |
Ok, so just so I understand your point correctly, you're disgusted enough by J-Lo dancing that you use her name in the same sentence as Harvey Weinstein. (I watched a couple of minutes of the video you linked and I am still not following what you're on about). You mention the "slutty red sequined thing" she was wearing in another clip that prompted your disgust, and use the word again as an example of "Glorifying Females Emulating Sluts For Fame and Fortune"
But you're now claiming that you didn't use the word in a derogatory manner? Is that right?? I'm really struggling to find any shred of credibility to attach to that claim. |
Yes, that remains my 'claim'. I believe I know WHY you're struggling: you (YOU!) can't let go of "slutty" as a pejorative. So maybe this is coming down to semantics: Let's substitute the term Highly Provocative for Slutty.
| Luuuc wrote: |
What's far worse though:
| Quote: |
| The dance moves are EXPLICITLY inviting and encouraging the kind of behaviors that (other) women are claiming to have unwillingly forced upon them. |
WTF??? Dance moves on a stage invite and encourage sexual assault / rape and just general abuse and degrading treatment? |
"Invite/encourage"? That's not a hard stretch. THOSE DANCE MOVES ARE MEANT TO ENOURAGE AND INVITE SEXUAL THOUGHTS. Not a bad thing. But it IS their purpose, which could only be lost on the most hopelessly Asexual person. What would YOU suggest is the purpose of those (slutty/highly provocative) dance moves??
| Luuuc wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
LADEEEEZ......Don't forget that y'all use slutty sex to sell, and it has to be an extraordinarily mixed message being received by young men.
Yes. Disgust. |
Going back to the slut well for a 3rd time, but once again, no derogatory meaning implied, right? I mean, I probably can't even argue on that one. What even is slutty sex and how does it differ from regular sex? |
Correct.
Regular sex is Good. Slutty sex is Fantastic. Married Mormon Girl vs. High End Call Girl. Married Couple vs. Hedonistic Orgy. (disclaimer: NONE of these 'definitions' are offered here in any judgmental way, but just as points of contrast/comparison)
| Luuuc wrote: |
| But really, as much as I think using the word "slut" is sad, it's definitely not the most worrying part of the post. |
Then just don't use it, and we're good. And also....try hard to NOT see it as a negative, or substitute "highly provocative" in its place. 
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21927
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/21/17 8:32 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Howee wrote: |
| Luuuc wrote: |
| But you're now claiming that you didn't use the word in a derogatory manner? Is that right?? I'm really struggling to find any shred of credibility to attach to that claim. |
Yes, that remains my 'claim'. I believe I know WHY you're struggling: you (YOU!) can't let go of "slutty" as a pejorative. So maybe this is coming down to semantics |
Howee, mate, seriously, come on. Either own your opinion, or don't, but this gymnastic routine is not scoring highly with the judges.
It's not my interpretation that is faulty here. You're saying something is bad enough to start a thread about, titled "disgusting", and bad enough that you claim it is "EXPLICITELY inviting and encouraging" (your words, your emphasis) abuse, sexual assault, etc. You can't then turn around and claim "oh, but I didn't mean anything derogatory by it! That's your interpretation, Luuuc"
| Howee wrote: |
| "Invite/encourage"? That's not a hard stretch. THOSE DANCE MOVES ARE MEANT TO ENOURAGE AND INVITE SEXUAL THOUGHTS. Not a bad thing. But it IS their purpose, which could only be lost on the most hopelessly Asexual person. What would YOU suggest is the purpose of those (slutty/highly provocative) dance moves?? |
I don't get how this still isn't clear after everything that has been explained in Area 51 lately, aside from just being common sense for anyone who leaves their house and interacts with real people.
It's a ridiculous stretch. Sexual thoughts are not the same as assault!!! It's that simple.
Aside from the fact that I'm far from asexual, I also know that I'm not the one unique male in the world who is capable of having sexual thoughts without interpreting that as an invitation. I can watch a music video without assaulting someone, and I know you can too.
People are bombarded with intentionally provocative stimuli. It's everywhere, and it happens today way more than ever in the past. Both more frequently, and more blatantly. Yet somehow society hasn't descended into an uncontrolled rapefest. (Or has it? I don't know the statistics to be honest, but would expect to have heard about it if it had.)
So maybe re-think what it is you're actually trying to postulate.
And I still stand by my thoughts on the word "slut". People are obviously free to go ahead and use it at will, but I maintain that most times it doesn't reflect well on them. Whether they even care about that is up to them, but I wish more people did think more about what they're really saying, and take into account the effect that their words can have on people.
| Howee wrote: |
| Let's substitute the term Highly Provocative for Slutty. |
Yes, let's. Especially if that term better describes your intended meaning.
That's the whole reason I first posted words in this thread, so to me that would be a great outcome.
_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15734
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
|
Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 16464
Location: Holland
Back to top |
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
Back to top |
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15734
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
|
Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 16464
Location: Holland
Back to top |
|
|
|
), and DON'T judge people who behave that way....but I also don't wanna hear about the Standards for Respecting Women when they behave in ways that do NOT command respect.
Have you?