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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 10/16/17 8:04 pm    ::: White, male, non-degree, 55+, GOP Reply Reply with quote
are the dumbest of all U.S. citizens, per Gallup polling:

Gallup on Trump job performance by race; white 47% approve 49% disapprove; black 5% approve 88% disapprove; Hisp 17% approve 77% disapprove

Gallup on Trump job performance: white college graduates 37% approve, 61% disapprove; whites w/no college degree 52% approve, 43% disapprove

Gallup on Trump job performance by age: 18-34 approve 22%, disapprove 73%; 35-54 approve 35%, disapprove 59%; 55+ approve 46% disapprove 50%

Gallup on Trump job performance, by gender: men 42% approve, 53% disapprove; women 29% approve, 65% disapprove

Gallup on Trump job performance, by party: Ds 7% approve 91% disapprove; Inds 26% approve, 61% disapprove; Rs 73% approve 23% disapprove



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 10/17/17 1:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
They appear to be the smartest of USA citizens to me. The number one issue for American workers is jobs and the elite have both exported them and allowed foreigners to come in legally and illegally and take them. Trump semi addresses both issues so it puts him above the other politicians on the number one issue.
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66900
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 10/17/17 6:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
tfan wrote:
They appear to be the smartest of USA citizens to me


Cth equates intelligence with how much you agree with him



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Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18029
Location: Queens


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PostPosted: 10/17/17 7:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
They appear to be the smartest of USA citizens to me


Cth equates intelligence with how much you agree with him


Don't most people?



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ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 10/17/17 9:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
A sign of stupidity to me is the extent to which a person has bought into the bullshit that building a wall has anything whatsoever to do with American jobs.

Or even anything to do stemming immigration.
cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 10/17/17 9:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
tfan wrote:
They appear to be the smartest of USA citizens to me. The number one issue for American workers is jobs and the elite have both exported them and allowed foreigners to come in legally and illegally and take them. Trump semi addresses both issues so it puts him above the other politicians on the number one issue.


Trump hires foreign workers all the time.



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Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 756
Location: Siege Perilous


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PostPosted: 10/17/17 12:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Can't you at least TRY not to be perpetually miserable? I didn't like the last President, it didn't mean I walked around with a scowl on my face for 8 years. Make the best of life. Even Madonna has found her happy place.
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9606



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PostPosted: 10/17/17 4:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
cthskzfn wrote:
tfan wrote:
They appear to be the smartest of USA citizens to me. The number one issue for American workers is jobs and the elite have both exported them and allowed foreigners to come in legally and illegally and take them. Trump semi addresses both issues so it puts him above the other politicians on the number one issue.


Trump hires foreign workers all the time.


Then I guess a wall won't stop Latin Americans from crossing the border.
ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



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PostPosted: 10/17/17 4:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
tfan wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
tfan wrote:
They appear to be the smartest of USA citizens to me. The number one issue for American workers is jobs and the elite have both exported them and allowed foreigners to come in legally and illegally and take them. Trump semi addresses both issues so it puts him above the other politicians on the number one issue.


Trump hires foreign workers all the time.


Then I guess a wall won't stop Latin Americans from crossing the border.


You're right. It won't. That's not how most arrive today, and those that do will simply find another way. Plus two thirds of illegals have been here for over ten years, 85% over five years. A wall doesn't remotely address any of them. Your so called immigration problem is not due to a daily flood of people crossing the Rio Grande. The wall is a meaningless token directed at a non-problem.
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9606



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PostPosted: 10/17/17 4:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
ArtBest23 wrote:
tfan wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
tfan wrote:
They appear to be the smartest of USA citizens to me. The number one issue for American workers is jobs and the elite have both exported them and allowed foreigners to come in legally and illegally and take them. Trump semi addresses both issues so it puts him above the other politicians on the number one issue.


Trump hires foreign workers all the time.


Then I guess a wall won't stop Latin Americans from crossing the border.


You're right. It won't. That's not how most arrive today, and those that do will simply find another way.


You should go on TV and talk about your original research on illegal immigraiton.

Quote:

Plus two thirds of illegals have been here for over ten years, 85% over five years. A wall doesn't remotely address any of them.


You sound like the gun control guys trying to stop gun laws. Who cares if a wall addresses people that already crossed illegally, it addresses people crossing illegally in the future.Are we pretending that Latin American (and Chinese and others are caught at the border) have stopped wanting to economically migrate and that deported criminals don't want back in?


Quote:
Your so-called immigration problem is not due to a daily flood of people crossing the Rio Grande. The wall is a meaningless token directed at a non-problem.


Again, I hope to see you on TV with your original research that you are holding close to the vest.
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9606



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PostPosted: 10/17/17 4:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
ArtBest23 wrote:
A sign of stupidity to me is the extent to which a person has bought into the bullshit that building a wall has anything whatsoever to do with American jobs.


All right, a "dog whistle" pronouncement over an actual thing. You guys can start calling the wall "the whistle".

Quote:
Or even anything to do stemming immigration.


It is to stem ILLEGAL immigration, not immigration. The infinite legal flow will be unaffected. 20% of the country is now immigrants and that percentage will continue to increase to the delight of the indoctrinated.
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66900
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 10/17/17 4:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
tfan wrote:
It is to stem ILLEGAL immigration, not immigration. The infinite legal flow will be unaffected. 20% of the country is now immigrants and that percentage will continue to increase to the delight of the indoctrinated.


98% of the country is either immigrants or descended from immigrants.



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ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



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PostPosted: 10/17/17 4:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
tfan wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
tfan wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
tfan wrote:
They appear to be the smartest of USA citizens to me. The number one issue for American workers is jobs and the elite have both exported them and allowed foreigners to come in legally and illegally and take them. Trump semi addresses both issues so it puts him above the other politicians on the number one issue.


Trump hires foreign workers all the time.


Then I guess a wall won't stop Latin Americans from crossing the border.


You're right. It won't. That's not how most arrive today, and those that do will simply find another way.


You should go on TV and talk about your original research on illegal immigraiton.

Quote:

Plus two thirds of illegals have been here for over ten years, 85% over five years. A wall doesn't remotely address any of them.


You sound like the gun control guys trying to stop gun laws. Who cares if a wall addresses people that already crossed illegally, it addresses people crossing illegally in the future.Are we pretending that Latin American (and Chinese and others are caught at the border) have stopped wanting to economically migrate and that deported criminals don't want back in?


Quote:
Your so-called immigration problem is not due to a daily flood of people crossing the Rio Grande. The wall is a meaningless token directed at a non-problem.


Again, I hope to see you on TV with your original research that you are holding close to the vest.


So you don't like the Pew Foundation?



Pew also wrote,:

"More Mexican immigrants have returned to Mexico from the U.S. than have migrated here since the end of the Great Recession, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of newly available government data from both countries. . . .

From 2009 to 2014, 1 million Mexicans and their families (including U.S.-born children) left the U.S. for Mexico, according to data from the 2014 Mexican National Survey of Demographic Dynamics (ENADID). U.S. census data for the same period show an estimated 870,000 Mexican nationals left Mexico to come to the U.S., a smaller number than the flow of families from the U.S. to Mexico."

So no, we're not "pretending" that Latin Americans have stopped wanting to migrate to the US. Latin Americans HAVE stopped wanting to migrate to the US. And this was pre-Trump.

I hope to see you on TV with your original research for your fanciful theories.
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9606



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PostPosted: 10/17/17 6:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
It is to stem ILLEGAL immigration, not immigration. The infinite legal flow will be unaffected. 20% of the country is now immigrants and that percentage will continue to increase to the delight of the indoctrinated.


98% of the country is either immigrants or descended from immigrants.


If we used the logic that "because it happened in the past, it must happen in the future" to justify things, women wouldn't be able to vote. We also have the situation in which the non-immigrants, besides being American culturally, are mostly white, and the immigrants are mostly non-white and have adopted American culture and the language to varying degrees. So the two groups are not equivalent.
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9606



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PostPosted: 10/17/17 6:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
ArtBest23 wrote:


So you don't like the Pew Foundation?


I don't like Pew Foundation. For one thing, they give annual estimates (which they don't adequately couch as estimates or wild ass guesses) for illegal border migration, and then don't cite anything other than US Border patrol stoppages as a
source of annual data. Border control stoppings won't tell you how many crossed in either direction which they give figures for. They also cite the US every-10-years US census as a source of data. Is there a question on the US census "are you an illegal from Latin America?" I don't believe so. And would they all answer that yes if they were? They also talk about occasional surveys in Mexico (they can have a question "did you just come back from an illegal stay in USA" and hope people admit it, but they can't ask "are you in USA illegally"? and expect an answer), but never say a peep about Central America.

Quote:


Pew also wrote,:

"More Mexican immigrants have returned to Mexico from the U.S. than have migrated here since the end of the Great Recession, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of newly available government data from both countries. . . .

From 2009 to 2014, 1 million Mexicans and their families (including U.S.-born children) left the U.S. for Mexico, according to data from the 2014 Mexican National Survey of Demographic Dynamics (ENADID). U.S. census data for the same period show an estimated 870,000 Mexican nationals left Mexico to come to the U.S., a smaller number than the flow of families from the U.S. to Mexico."

So no, we're not "pretending" that Latin Americans have stopped wanting to migrate to the US. Latin Americans HAVE stopped wanting to migrate to the US. And this was pre-Trump.

I hope to see you on TV with your original research for your fanciful theories.


Your claim was that most people coming here illegally were not coming via border crossings. While you made no mention of how many came from Central America, you made a statement that 870,000 Mexicans left Mexico to come to the US in a six year period. You gave no figures for how many are coming via other means. In what way do you think you backed up your claim that most illegal immigrants are not coming via border crossings?




Last edited by tfan on 10/17/17 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



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PostPosted: 10/17/17 6:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
It is to stem ILLEGAL immigration, not immigration. The infinite legal flow will be unaffected. 20% of the country is now immigrants and that percentage will continue to increase to the delight of the indoctrinated.


98% of the country is either immigrants or descended from immigrants.


Actually, that's 100%. It's only a matter of what you pick as a cutoff date.
ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



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PostPosted: 10/17/17 6:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
tfan wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:


So you don't like the Pew Foundation?


I don't like Pew Foundation.


Now there's a shock. Rolling Eyes

Of course you don't. They do actual research and strangely it always contradicts your nonsense.

For someone who so constantly demands facts and research from others, you never seem to provide a shred of support for your own pontification. Oh you say you don't have any? Shocked
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN


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PostPosted: 10/17/17 7:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
ArtBest23 wrote:
pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
It is to stem ILLEGAL immigration, not immigration. The infinite legal flow will be unaffected. 20% of the country is now immigrants and that percentage will continue to increase to the delight of the indoctrinated.


98% of the country is either immigrants or descended from immigrants.


Actually, that's 100%. It's only a matter of what you pick as a cutoff date.

If we get pedantic, I don't think 100% is correct. For someone to be an immigrant, technically there needs to be a claim on the land to which they are immigrating, otherwise they are just migrants. So the indigenous peoples, who arrived before anyone was here wouldn't be immigrants.

Also, the original colonists weren't really immigrants since they were not moving to a foreign country.

That all said if we continue with the pedancy, 2% is in all likelihood too high. Most people, even if they are almost fully of indigenous descent, will have at least someone in their direct family tree who was an immigrant.



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 10/17/17 8:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
ArtBest23 wrote:
tfan wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:


So you don't like the Pew Foundation?


I don't like Pew Foundation.


Now there's a shock. Rolling Eyes

Of course you don't. They do actual research and strangely it always contradicts your nonsense.

For someone who so constantly demands facts and research from others, you never seem to provide a shred of support for your own pontification. Oh you say you don't have any? Shocked


So you couldn't back up your statement that most illegal immigration was coming by non-border crossings and actually felt an ad hominem attack would get you off the hook?

I don't have to provide figures to show that a wall would stop illegal immigration because you provided a large number coming from just Mexico alone.

One thing I forgot to mention about Pew Research, in all their guesses about illegal flows, I have never seen them mention visa-overstays. So they are probably the wrong source for data about what percentage over illegal immigration is from visa-overstays.

The other thing about a wall that hasn't been discussed is that it keeps out drug and criminals. I was in a courtroom and actually heard a judge say this surreal thing - "You will be deported. If you should return to this country you will need to check in with...". Now maybe he was talking about some kind of legal return, but he can certainly come back illegally at any time - clearly, the border patrol alone is insufficient to stop illegal border crossings. They have failed tens of millions of times.
ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



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PostPosted: 10/17/17 8:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/visa-overstays-outnumber-illegal-border-crossings-trend-expected-continue-n730216


Amazing that you write "I don't have to provide figures to show that a wall would stop illegal immigration because you provided a large number coming from just Mexico alone. "

I can't really tell why you think everyone else needs to prove every syllable beyond a reasonable doubt while you are free to just spew phony bullshit.

Why don't you just be honest and say you CAN'T provide support for your assertions because there isn't any.
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9606



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PostPosted: 10/18/17 9:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
ArtBest23 wrote:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/visa-overstays-outnumber-illegal-border-crossings-trend-expected-continue-n730216


That does say that more illegal immigrants are now coming more from visa overstays. Unfortunately, it is coming from a pro-illegal immigration "think tank". But, the Department of Homeland Security has big numbers for visa overstays for fiscal year 2015. The good news from them is that only .9% had overstayed visa by Jan 2016. The bad news is that is .9% of about 45 million, which leaves 416,500. Which is above current Pew Research guesses for illegals from Mexico. I don't know what their current guess is for all of Latin America coming across the border. There are also people from China that have been caught crossing.

But it is irrelevant to building a wall if more people come from Visa overstays. They are still coming over the border. And not just economic migrants. Criminals and drug runners as well.

Quote:
Amazing that you write "I don't have to provide figures to show that a wall would stop illegal immigration because you provided a large number coming from just Mexico alone. "

I can't really tell why you think everyone else needs to prove every syllable beyond a reasonable doubt while you are free to just spew phony bullshit.


Amid your get-off-my-lawn noise you made a claim that is not mainstream. The only time I recall someone talking about visa overstays (Pew doesn't appear to) is Marco Rubio who said in a debate that 40% of the illegal immigrants were visa overstays. Therefore it behooves you to back up your statement that the majority are. On the other hand, no one denies that they are still pouring over the border. And claiming that "more are going back" does not change how many are coming in.

Quote:
Why don't you just be honest and say you CAN'T provide support for your assertions because there isn't any.


What assertions are you referring to?
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