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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 5361 Location: Fayetteville
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Posted: 10/17/17 9:50 am ::: Trump falsely says predecessors didn't honor fallen soldiers |
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The record is plain that presidents reached out to families of the dead and to the wounded, often with their presence as well as by letter and phone. The path to Walter Reed and other military hospitals, as well as to the Dover, Delaware, Air Force Base where the remains of fallen soldiers are often brought, is a familiar one to Obama, George W. Bush and others. |
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-trump-fallen-soldiers-20171016-story.html |
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16359 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 10/17/17 10:09 am ::: Re: Trump falsely says predecessors didn't honor fallen sold |
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I am not criticizing you, hyperetic, as I know you are using the language that the media is using. I have seen it all over the place.
But I am so sick of the wishy washy phrases like "falsely says." He lied. He told a blatant, easily refuted lie. Why should we call it anything else.
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 5361 Location: Fayetteville
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Posted: 10/17/17 11:27 am ::: Re: Trump falsely says predecessors didn't honor fallen sold |
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PUmatty wrote: |
I am not criticizing you, hyperetic, as I know you are using the language that the media is using. I have seen it all over the place.
But I am so sick of the wishy washy phrases like "falsely says." He lied. He told a blatant, easily refuted lie. Why should we call it anything else. |
You're "preaching to the choir" on that one. I feel like since he doesn't give a damn about presidential etiquette, why grant him any. |
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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Posted: 10/17/17 12:00 pm ::: |
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He's not only an obvious pathological liar, but a huge chickenshit as well. He immediately engaged his typical strategy when called out for lying- blame others, usually Obama. Here he blamed "his" generals as well as all his predecessors.
The guy is a weak, needy bozo.
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 11188
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 21046
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 5361 Location: Fayetteville
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Posted: 10/17/17 2:14 pm ::: |
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jammerbirdi wrote: |
Meh. I'm more than equally bothered by the fact that while this is all very fresh and a raw moment to be sure for the families of the fallen green berets, the media injected themselves into this by questioning why Trump hadn't 'tweeted' about the dead, and from that have created a firestorm that really centers around these families' loss. I know people can't see anything here but another reason to hate Trump and that's fine. But it's more than a little disgusting to see these very fresh and tragic losses politically weaponized and then Trump's name attached to it, which honestly, the very sound of the guy's name in relation to their loss would have to exacerbate the pain these families are suffering at this time.
I mean don't think that the question hasn't been asked in newsrooms at the nation's most prestigious papers as to whether they should send reporters out to interview families about whether Trump has contacted them, etc.
Because people suck. Not just Trump. LOTS of people. |
I agree its unseemly to tread someone's feelings of heartbreak and loss, especially fresh ones. My only caveat to that would be that documenting his transgressions is one of the ways to build a case against him. Without it, so much would be lost to the ether and many could feign ignorant bliss. He needs to be documented. |
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 19760
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Posted: 10/17/17 7:23 pm ::: |
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"When my brother was killed, Pres Bush listened while I screamed at him & then held me as I sobbed, you fat fucking liar." - Delilia O'Malley
Do you know how fucking awful you have to be to make GW look good?
Three years ago, I thought that man would be the worst President in my lifetime.
_________________ “Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21929
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Posted: 10/17/17 7:27 pm ::: |
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Surely Trump is the one who "politically weaponized" this the moment he decided to try to drag Obama into his mess?
Still waiting for the guy to take responsibility for anything he fucks up.
_________________ Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 21046
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18031 Location: Queens
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Posted: 10/17/17 9:00 pm ::: |
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Upon further review, perhaps the consoling of the survivors should be left to someone with tact, empathy, and diplomatic skills.
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 5361 Location: Fayetteville
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Posted: 10/17/17 9:04 pm ::: |
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Luuuc wrote: |
Surely Trump is the one who "politically weaponized" this the moment he decided to try to drag Obama into his mess?
Still waiting for the guy to take responsibility for anything he fucks up. |
My best advice? Don't hold your breath or buy any bridges. |
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 11188
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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21929
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Posted: 10/17/17 9:29 pm ::: |
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hyperetic wrote: |
Luuuc wrote: |
Surely Trump is the one who "politically weaponized" this the moment he decided to try to drag Obama into his mess?
Still waiting for the guy to take responsibility for anything he fucks up. |
My best advice? Don't hold your breath or buy any bridges. |
Haha, nah, of course not. The guy is obviously well past being a lost cause. My curiosity these days is not his actions - which are fairly predictable - but the responses to his actions (or lack thereof), and the ease with which he is able to keep lowering the bar for what is acceptable for a President.
_________________ Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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Posted: 10/17/17 10:24 pm ::: |
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Luuuc wrote: |
hyperetic wrote: |
Luuuc wrote: |
Surely Trump is the one who "politically weaponized" this the moment he decided to try to drag Obama into his mess?
Still waiting for the guy to take responsibility for anything he fucks up. |
My best advice? Don't hold your breath or buy any bridges. |
Haha, nah, of course not. The guy is obviously well past being a lost cause. My curiosity these days is not his actions - which are fairly predictable - but the responses to his actions (or lack thereof), and the ease with which he is able to keep lowering the bar for what is acceptable for a President. |
x________
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 5361 Location: Fayetteville
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Posted: 10/18/17 9:21 am ::: |
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Luuuc wrote: |
hyperetic wrote: |
Luuuc wrote: |
Surely Trump is the one who "politically weaponized" this the moment he decided to try to drag Obama into his mess?
Still waiting for the guy to take responsibility for anything he fucks up. |
My best advice? Don't hold your breath or buy any bridges. |
Haha, nah, of course not. The guy is obviously well past being a lost cause. My curiosity these days is not his actions - which are fairly predictable - but the responses to his actions (or lack thereof), and the ease with which he is able to keep lowering the bar for what is acceptable for a President. |
Yep. Part of the problem, I think, is that people are being too reverent to the office even while he isn't being. I also agree with the study that says Republicans have, over time, placed themselves in key strategic positions to shape the political landscape of the country. One example:
http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/07/19/gerrymandering-republicans-redmap |
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 21046
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Posted: 10/18/17 12:33 pm ::: |
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There's not a week that goes by since the inauguration that, three days out of five, I'm not spontaneously wishing for a news alert that Trump has been forced out of office. Till that happens though I'm watching everything and I mean everything. The presidency of the United States is a like a giant organism. Very powerful and dangerous under any circumstances, but the threat of the damage that it can do is very often mitigated by the quality of the people in the administration. (If not necessarily inherent in the character of the president himself.)
Obama and Clinton may not have been the presidents that I would have liked them to be, but knowing they were in office, I felt that I could relax the attention due to the intelligence of the president and the overall benevolence of the policies of the administrations in a way that one could never relax or feel quite safe when Bush, Reagan, or Nixon was in office. Trump has taken all of that anxiety to a completely new level.
So I'm watching Trump's presidency with pretty much every bit of time and attention I can spare, out of wide-eyed fascination, trepidation, at times, horror, etc. But I'm looking at everything as objectively as I possibly can be. Because the media is also a massive living powerful and dangerous organism and the media is engaging Trump in a tango with so many lines crossed by either side that there has become a toxic mix grey area where both are spewing bullshit and any desire for reason and order is strewn aside at every opportunity to re-engage the battle.
I've already said many times that I think Trump will be forced from office (long) before the end of his first term. But, hey, I don't know that. And honestly, the odds aren't actually very good that I'm right in that opinion. So barring that, Trump is the POTUS and therefore the head of this most powerful and potentially dangerous organism on this planet. What do I want to happen, then, with Trump and his presidency?
I think Samantha Bee was asked did she think that Trump's presidency... let me see how it went... did she ever imagine that it would be THIS bad? And quite honestly she said, absolutely not. No way. And I laughed at that because that's exactly my feeling as well. I could have never imagined this. That he would be just simply this bad at the day to day job, the basic functions, etc. of being president.
So my thing is this. I would like Trump to get better at the job of being president and stop disgracing the office and embarrassing our country. And that's just for starters. I want much more than that. I actually don't think Trump has much of his own political ideology that he must adhere to. So I think he's MOST inclined to make deals and be 'seen' as being successful. I would like to see the ACA shored up, gimme some of that tax reform, a trillion dollars stimulus in the form of an infrastructure package. And any other things that Chuck and Nancy and The Donald can agree on.
Unlike many many people who take the part of those resisting Trump with every breath, my opinion is that, barring Mueller somehow bringing about the removal of Trump from office, he will not be removed by being hounded from office by this vast segment of the political aware and committed who seem very much focused on this belief that their attempting to hound him from office is good for the country and might even end up being successful.
I'm a dude who likes to fix things. Not physical mechanical things but interpersonal things, how things work together etc. I might absolutely suck at it. Who knows? I'm not saying I have any capabilities or skills. But I LIKE to think about things being fixed and improving or moving forward in a better manner than they might be at this time. So, as I said, I would like to see Trump get better at this. He probably isn't going anywhere soon. And the presidency is a dangerous thing. This one should keep people awake at night and I'm sure it does.
So one of the points in all this is that I'm very cognizant (I believe anyway, I could be totally delusional) of what the media is doing at all times in relation to Trump. Trump is inarticulate in addition to being a shameless liar. But the media covering him are too often simply more articulate shameless liars. They have been working up controversies out of their own whole-cloth for months.
This controversy is one of them, IMO. Ask a question to the clumsy oaf in the Oval Office. He opens his mouth and inserts both his foot and his ass and then let's go to town on this. It's a tactic. Trump said Obama didn't call the family of every fallen soldier, which, I believe, is true. Because calling the family of every fallen soldier would be a new thing. Very often the shear number of casualties in past administrations would have precluded anything like that. Obama did fine, better than most, I believe.
But when I heard the details of this call Trump made to the family of the soldier from Florida, where there was a congresswoman in the car and Trump is alleged to have really fucked that call up, my thought was, jeez, how did we get here? This is all TMI. Ask me honestly how I would think a phone call from Donald Trump to the widow of a fallen soldier would go and I would pretty much IMAGINE exactly something like what is said to have happened. How does anyone think a call like that from this shallow man would go? Off the rails maybe? How about nine time out of ten.
The fixer in me says a better question after hearing the details of this call would be do we really want Donald Trump personally phoning the families of fallen soldiers? To say this isn't in his wheelhouse is a tragic understatement so I’m going to say maybe not. Let's just say that everyone would be better off if this president didn't handle these inevitable losses of life by our military personnel in this personal of a way. And that's just the way it's going to have to be until we have a better president or a president who is better at this part of the job. For the most part, it wasn't done in such a personally presidential way in the past. The media actually dug in on this issue when they really, IMO, shouldn't have. Trump or no Trump, I think it was poor taste and the news media should stay away from the topic of how any president or or administration handles these moments.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66920 Location: Where the action is
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 19760
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Posted: 10/18/17 5:05 pm ::: |
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Honestly, I didn't think Trump would be this bad. I thought he'd be significantly worse. I thought by this point we'd have a god awful tax code, no ACA and maybe a war. Policies that will significantly harm people.
This is why qualifications matter. Why it matters that someone has experience in the field that they are working in. People wouldn't want a non surgeon performing surgery on them. People wouldn't want a non-lawyer defending them in court. Why oh why would we want someone with no clue running the country. Even someone with intelligence and thoughtfulness would struggle. Understanding domestic policy, international relations, law, and military uses (fuck, understanding geography..) is so important.
And I am in full agreement with you Jammer, although maybe not in the way you've described. The media should be ashamed with themselves. They put us all in this position, and they're refusing to reflect and improve. They're still falling for every bait and switch tactic Trump has. They're still making mountains out of mole hills and then forgetting what's important days later.
Trump's bullshit provides ratings, and our news has turned into entertainment.
_________________ “Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 21046
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Posted: 10/20/17 2:56 am ::: |
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So, briefly, I just watched Anderson Cooper lie twice. As I said earlier in this thread, I'm watching everything. Today I was busy but you know what I mean. And I have to agree with whomever came up with the phrase 'fake news' as it applies to an extremely hostile and overtly dishonest national news media. These are scary times. Trump is not just a disaster himself. He's exposed how weak many aspects of our national press coverage is. Strained and attacked as they are, they will bend over backwards to return the fire with lies and manipulation.
I thought General Kelly was unimpeachable today. After he said what he said, if there was anyone with class behind the CNN operation. A Walter Cronkite level of person. They would have looked at the camera when that presser was over and said, "And we'll be right back." And then, sweep any guests ready to politically rumble over the freshly dead bodies of American soldiers out of the studio, and then hastily set up the next segment on tax reform, North Korea, Iran, Trump's wicked appointments, failure to staff up the state dept, etc.
Anything but this. But that’s not what they did. All day and into the night.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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Posted: 10/20/17 9:00 am ::: |
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jammerbirdi wrote: |
So, briefly, I just watched Anderson Cooper lie twice. As I said earlier in this thread, I'm watching everything. Today I was busy but you know what I mean. And I have to agree with whomever came up with the phrase 'fake news' as it applies to an extremely hostile and overtly dishonest national news media. These are scary times. Trump is not just a disaster himself. He's exposed how weak many aspects of our national press coverage is. Strained and attacked as they are, they will bend over backwards to return the fire with lies and manipulation.
I thought General Kelly was unimpeachable today. After he said what he said, if there was anyone with class behind the CNN operation. A Walter Cronkite level of person. They would have looked at the camera when that presser was over and said, "And we'll be right back." And then, sweep any guests ready to politically rumble over the freshly dead bodies of American soldiers out of the studio, and then hastily set up the next segment on tax reform, North Korea, Iran, Trump's wicked appointments, failure to staff up the state dept, etc.
Anything but this. But that’s not what they did. All day and into the night. |
You can't be serious.
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 11188
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 8947
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Posted: 10/23/17 9:49 am ::: |
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"Yes, the president said that he knew what he signed up for, but it hurts anyway. And it made me cry cause I was very angry at the tone of his voice and how he said he couldn’t remember my husband’s name," Myeshia Johnson told the show. |
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But Trump tweeted Monday that he had a respectful conversation with the widow and spoke the soldier's name without hesitation. |
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/10/23/soldiers-widow-still-very-angry-trump-call-says-wilsons-statement-100-correct/789833001/
Anybody believe that there wasn't a recording of this call made? And later destroyed?
_________________ "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 11188
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