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Taurasi, Parker, Moore
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Which of these three current greats has the best argument as the "greatest of all time"?
Diana Taurasi
46%
 46%  [ 30 ]
Candace Parker
15%
 15%  [ 10 ]
Maya Moore
37%
 37%  [ 24 ]
Total Votes : 64

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chamomile1800



Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: 10/04/17 10:27 am    ::: Taurasi, Parker, Moore Reply Reply with quote

These three, in my opinion, are some of the greatest to ever play. Past greats like Cooper, Swoopes, Leslie, etc. aside, the modern day legacy of these three are still being written and I think it's an interesting discussion about what each of these three have done and may or may not need to do to cement their legacy as the greatest of all time. If you take a look at championships, 7 out of the last 10 WNBA titles have been won by teams including one of these three:

Taurasi: 2007, 2009, 2014
Parker: 2016
Moore: 2011, 2013, 2015

Obviously, each of these players were drafted into different teams with different levels of talent, and each of them have multiple NCAA titles (Taurasi 3, Parker 2, Moore 2) as well as several championships overseas. Taking all of this into consideration, and given that Parker and Moore are playing in another pivotal game 5 for a title tonight, who would you currently consider has the best claim to being the greatest of all time? And does tonight's outcome affect this?



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chamomile1800



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PostPosted: 10/04/17 10:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Obviously, my profile gives away my bias, but I will say that Candace Parker has really impressed me recently. I was very critical of her when she was on a team with Leslie, Thompson, Milton Jones, etc. and failed to win a championship and then struggled for many years, but when she's on there is no one in the world that can do the things she does at her size, and her passing ability is really impressive. I think with a win tonight, she has a great argument for being on the greatest of all time and can cement a really solid legacy. And her team will surely be in the mix for a title for several years after this. Most impressive has been her ability to involve her teammates and lately has demonstrated a knack for performing at her best in crucial games and in late game moments.

Moore, I think, was drafted onto a team with the greatest talent of the three. She is a superstar in her own right, but Minnesota has been loaded with talent every year since her arrival (obviously Moore has something to do with this as well). She has the most titles of the three in the shortest amount of time, but I do think that her losing in multiple WNBA finals is a knock on her legacy, and if she loses tonight that will come to the forefront. With a win tonight, four titles would be hard to argue with, but I do think she's benefited from being on a superbly talented team year after year.

Taurasi, in my opinion, currently has the best argument for greatest of all time out of these three (comparing her to past greats like Cooper, Swoopes, Leslie, Jackson, etc. is another discussion) but her window for winning another title is certainly closing. She's a winner at every level and her performance in clutch situations (11-0 in winner take all games, etc.) is the most impressive of the three. But, she has not won WNBA championships at the consistency that Moore has; and Parker, assuming her current LA roster remains relatively intact, has a chance to really compete for titles and shine in the coming years.

Just my two cents, what are all of your thoughts? Smile



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Aladyyn



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PostPosted: 10/04/17 10:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Right now it's Taurasi but I think Maya will overtake her at some point. Maybe with her 2nd FMVP tonight? Wink


Shades



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PostPosted: 10/04/17 11:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I do believe I inspired this poll after you saw this graphic in another thread.



The fact that you include Maya who is so much younger than the rest should tell you something. When it's all said and done, it's Maya who will be #1. She's already the leader as far as winning championships. If it's points you value, it's only a matter of time. Dan Hughes and Thibault aren't the greatest coaches just because they've been around forever. Same goes for players.

Oh, and there's another new accomplishment that I haven't seen mentioned. Maya is the All Time leader in playoff field goals made, and she's just a pup in her 20's.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 10/04/17 11:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Diana. And I don't think the other two are close to her. As much as I respect their games I wouldn't rank either higher than Catchings.

3x WNBA Champion
4x Olympic Gold Medalist
2x World Champion
2× WNBA Finals MVP (2009, 2014)
WNBA MVP (2009)
8× WNBA All-Star (2005–2007, 2009, 2011, 2013–2014, 2017)
9× All-WNBA First Team (2004, 2006–2011, 2013, 2014)
3× All-WNBA Second Team (2005, 2016, 2017)
WNBA all-time scoring leader
WNBA Rookie of the Year (2004)
5× WNBA scoring champion (2006, 2008–2011)
6× WNBA Peak Performer (2006, 2007, 2009–2011, 2014)
4× USA Basketball Female Athlete of the Year (2006, 2010, 2012, 2016)
6× Euroleague champion (2007–2010, 2013, 2016)
7× Russian National League champion (2007, 2008, 2013–2017)
3× Russian Cup winner (2013–2014, 2017)
3× Russian League Player of the Year (2007, 2008, 2009)
Turkish National League champion (2011)
Turkish Cup winner (2012)
3× NCAA champion (2002–2004)
NCAA Tournament MOP (2003, 2004)
Wade Trophy (2003)
Naismith Award (2003, 2004)
USBWA Women's National Player of the Year (2003)
AP College Player of the Year (2003)
Nancy Lieberman Award (2003, 2004)


<EMBED><iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9VO7aFUMcWc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe></EMBED>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VO7aFUMcWc



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lynxmania



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PostPosted: 10/04/17 12:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
Maybe with her 2nd FMVP tonight? Wink


She'd have to win one first.


Shades



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PostPosted: 10/04/17 1:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

lynxmania wrote:
Aladyyn wrote:
Maybe with her 2nd FMVP tonight? Wink


She'd have to win one first.


Who do you think won in 2013?



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pilight



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PostPosted: 10/04/17 1:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It hardly seems fair to compare people whose careers are around the mid-point to those who are done or close to done.



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Speebs56



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PostPosted: 10/04/17 1:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

While I agree that all three are remarkable talents, I think an element of attitude also plays a role in assessing each.

Whatever the accomplishments are among each of them, I've seen Parker and DT "take nights off." And I don't mean literally sit on the bench, as DT has done occasionally. I mean not play all out. Parker when she's disgruntled, has checked out. DT has in more recent years, although rarely, if ever, when the game really mattered (playoffs etc). Maya NEVER takes a night off. She may have poor playing nights -- and we've seen a few this season that were uncharacteristically poor, at least by the standards we've come to expect from her -- but she plays all out every game. The only other player of this caliber who played that way (again, in my opinion) was Catchings.

Many, if not most of you, may disagree that this is a factor worth noting. I think it is. I was a DT fan from the time she stepped on the UCONN campus and for years loved her game above all others. But in the past few years I've really come to dislike the attitude she displays in Merc games. I do not see the same rancor demonstrated by her in USA games. She plays with the old joy she once did in college and WNBA. I miss that. And it colors my perception of her in every respect.

Parker played for Lady Vols -- already a mark against her in my book! She is a phenomenal player, as long as she's on. And in this years' finals she's been all in -- in ways I've not seen consistently from her. But even she checks out - much mentioned on this board when it has occurred. And that may/may not have affected LA's chances for a title before that which was secured last season. If LA wins this year and Parker is a major force in tonight's game, she rises. And she still has some good years ahead, so could pull away from any others who are great players.

Maya has time....and tonight will factor in to assessments of her - now and going forward.

All above is just opinion. We all have 'em, and you know what they say about that. I am just happy that we've had the good fortune to watch these amazing players and may be lucky enough to watch and enjoy their games for a few more years. Very Happy


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 10/04/17 2:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Taurasi has been in the lottery the most - 5 times, but only played 8 games in the tank year. Parker has been on 2 lottery teams, but played only 10 and 17 games due to injury. Moore has never played on a lottery team.


barryi22



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 462
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PostPosted: 10/04/17 5:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Individual skill wise, I think Parker may be the best ever. She's proven she can dominate inside on the low block, hit midrange, extend to 3pt and she's one of the best passers in the league in a 6-4 frame.

The last two years she has also impressed me with her ability to lead the Sparks to be a dominant team. I think they have another 2-3 years are glory ahead if they can keep Nneka/Candace/Gray/Sims in tact.

When she played with Leslie/Thompson/DMJ, all were way past their prime and she barely missed out on the finals in 2 consecutive years. In 2008, San Antonio pulled a miracle out of their butts to force a game 3 in the western finals, and in game 3 it was close but they caught a few breaks down the stretch. In 2009, Parker only played half the season after having her daughter and they lost in game 3 at Phoenix (who went on to win it all).

After that, she sat out most of 2010 and 2011 when they had down years. In 2012 and 2013 they had stellar season but the west was loaded. 2014 was a bad year for the Sparks, in 2015 the team was very good once she returned, and in 2016 they finally won it all.

When looking at best ever on paper, it's really hard not to go with Maya Moore IMO. Taurasi has the scoring stats, 3 titles, All-WNBA awards, and Gold Medals...but Maya is just flat out the best winner out there. She rarely loses and she breeds success:
-In college she went 150-4 and was a 4x 1st Team All American and 3x POY
-In the pros she's been in the league for 7 years and has made it to 6 Finals. --In 7 years as a pro, she's a 5x 1st team All-WNBA player, 1x 2nd team in 7 seasons
-Prior to Maya, the Lynx had made the playoffs twice in 12 years, losing both times in the first round. With Maya, they've finished 1st in the West 6 of the 7 years and have played in 6 of 7 Finals.
-Her record in the pros is 182-56, good for a 76.5% winning percentage
-Her record in the playoffs is 39-15, good for 72% winning percentage


For all of Taurasi's successes, her teams have underperformed throughout her career. Her teams in 2006, 2008, 2013, 2016 and 2017 all underperformed considering the talent she had on her team. She's played with some of the best players in the world (Cappie, Penny, Griner), and if you look at full seasons played (we'll scratch 2012 since she was only there for 8 games), her numbers are:
-12 years in the pros and 3 Finals appearances (and wins)
-12 years in the pros and 9x 1st Team All WNBA, 3x 2nd Team All WNBA
-Team record over 12 years is 229-179, good for 56% winning percentage
-Her record in the playoffs is 31-21, good for 59.6%

Give Maya 3-4 more years and I don't think there'll be much doubt that she surpasses Taurasi in individual awards and successes.

Also, I tend to put less emphasize on All-WNBA awards since being 1st Team All-WNBA as a forward is much more competitive than making it as a guard (hence how Moore and Taurasi made their teams this year over more deserving forwards) and number of gold medals also isn't as significant to me...the US is a virtual lock for gold each Olympic run so if you make the team, you can have Olympic gold medal on your resume. Leading the team in scoring like Taurasi did this last run is a distinguishable piece that could be used in a debate like this.

If Parker has a big game and wins tonight, plus brings home another title in the next 2-3 years, I think she stakes a strong case for best ever. I do think she's the most unique player on the women's side with her skill set but she needs another title or two to have a strong case.

If Maya wins tonight and continues to lead the Lynx to final appearances/wins over the next 5 years, she'll go out the best ever.


Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 10/04/17 7:38 pm    ::: Re: Taurasi, Parker, Moore Reply Reply with quote

chamomile1800 wrote:
These three, in my opinion, are some of the greatest to ever play. Past greats like Cooper, Swoopes, Leslie, etc. aside, the modern day legacy of these three are still being written and I think it's an interesting discussion about what each of these three have done and may or may not need to do to cement their legacy as the greatest of all time. If you take a look at championships, 7 out of the last 10 WNBA titles have been won by teams including one of these three:

Taurasi: 2007, 2009, 2014
Parker: 2016
Moore: 2011, 2013, 2015

Obviously, each of these players were drafted into different teams with different levels of talent, and each of them have multiple NCAA titles (Taurasi 3, Parker 2, Moore 2) as well as several championships overseas. Taking all of this into consideration, and given that Parker and Moore are playing in another pivotal game 5 for a title tonight, who would you currently consider has the best claim to being the greatest of all time? And does tonight's outcome affect this?


I'm not fond of the notion of using championships in a team sport as a metric for determining who the greatest player is, as there are too many moving parts involved in winning a championship, too many factors that are out of the control of the player. I mean, I can't imagine that any of the people using "RINGZ~!" as the crux of their argument would ever fix their mouths to make the case that Ruth Riley was better than Candice Dupree, or that Katie Douglas was better than Angel McCougthry, or even Becky Hammon.

Taurasi is the weakest defender of the three players brought up in this thread, and I tend to be biased against players who aren't good defenders, but she probably has the strongest argument for being called the Greatest. Her post-season record pushes her past Parker, even though I consider Parker to be a better player overall, or at least more talented.

I find myself of the opinion that Maya Moore may be overrated. Not, like, massively overrated, but overrated nonetheless. I feel like I won't have a good sense of how good she actually is, until after I see her play with a sub-par team. Even going back to when she was in high school, she played with as many as three teammates that also went on to play in Division I (Four, if you count Carmen Fowler); she's never really played on a team that wasn't loaded. She's also the only one of the three to fail to win a championship, when they had the best record.

Personally, I don't think any one of these three women can be considered the Greatest of All Time. Of the three, Taurasi has the best claim to being the GOAT, and she's arguably the greatest offensive player of all time, but because of my personal bias for players who are great on both sides of the ball, I put her at fifth, behind (in no particular order) Swoopes, Leslie, Jackson and Catchings. I think that Moore has the potential to become the Greatest, but even that remains to be seen: I think that a lot of people are taking for granted that she's going to continue to keep winning championships, once Augustus, Whelan and Brunson all retire. And, if she finishes her career with three, I don't think that I can say she's the Greatest. Now, if she finishes with three, but wins multiple MVP's and breaks the scoring record, that would have to put Greatest back on the table, but I'm firmly in 'wait and see' mode when it comes to Moore.



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 10/04/17 8:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
It hardly seems fair to compare people whose careers are around the mid-point to those who are done or close to done.


Agree 100%.

I still believe that Lisa Leslie is the GOAT, or at least in the WNBA era. I voted for Diana only because she has the closest to a full career. Maya Moore is the best non-center now, and has been the best player by far for this decade. Candace Parker may be the best in a single series, but has not shown that she can play a full season at a top level for many years and I doubt she ever will again. I suspect that by 2025 the debate for GOAT will be between Moore and Griner (she is not there yet but still has the greatest upside), if anyone, Taurasi would be on my starting 5 and Parker would be a backup to Lauren Jackson.


mercfan3



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PostPosted: 10/04/17 9:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Taurasi (although I agree with pilight that the comparison is unfair.)

Maya can't do as much as Diana and Candace on the court, and Candace doesn't have the accomplishments Diana has.

She's got an argument for GOAT. I don't think Maya or Candace do (yet).



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pilight



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PostPosted: 10/04/17 9:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just counting championships would make Rebekkah Brunson the greatest WNBA player ever



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miller40



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: 10/04/17 9:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
Taurasi (although I agree with pilight that the comparison is unfair.)

Maya can't do as much as Diana and Candace on the court, and Candace doesn't have the accomplishments Diana has.

She's got an argument for GOAT. I don't think Maya or Candace do (yet).


Uh, such as?

I'm also assuming you are speaking entirely of offence.


Shades



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PostPosted: 10/04/17 9:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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ucbart



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PostPosted: 10/04/17 10:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It’s Diana....and it’s not close.


blaase22



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PostPosted: 10/04/17 11:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
It’s Diana....and it’s not close.

Her and ace are neck and neck for biggest whiners.


YlwJckt999



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PostPosted: 10/04/17 11:18 pm    ::: Maya is adding to her tally Reply Reply with quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_Moore

Her list is not quite as long as Dirty Diana but it is growing at an incredibly fast rate.

Smile
2x Olympic Gold
2x Gold World Championship
4× WNBA champion (2011, 2013, 2015, 2017)
WNBA Finals MVP (2013)
WNBA MVP (2014)
5× WNBA All-Star (2011, 2013–2015, 2017)
2× WNBA All-Star Game MVP (2015, 2017)
5× All-WNBA First Team (2013–2017)
All-WNBA Second Team (2012)
2× WNBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014, 2017)
WNBA scoring leader (2014)
WNBA Rookie of the Year (2011)
WNBA All-Rookie Team (2011)
WNBA Top 20@20 (2016)
FIBA World Championship MVP (2014)
EuroLeague Women champion (2012)
Liga Femenina champion (2012)
3× WCBA champion (2013–2015)
2× NCAA champion (2009–2010)
4× AP All-America First Team (2008-2011)
3× CoSIDA Academic All-America First Team (2009-2011)
4× WBCA Coaches' All-America Team (2008-2011)
4× USBWA All-America Team (2008-2011)
3× Wade Trophy (2009-2011)
2× Naismith College Player of the Year (2009, 2011)
2× John R. Wooden Award (2009, 2011)
2× AP College Player of the Year (2009, 2011)
2× USBWA Women's National Player of the Year (2009, 2011)
2x Honda Sports Award for basketball (2010, 2011)
3× Big East Player of the Year (2008, 2009, 2011)
2× Academic All-America of the Year (2010-2011)
All-sports Academic All-America of the Year (2011)
NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Player (2010)
USBWA National Freshman of the Year (2008)


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PostPosted: 10/05/17 9:30 am    ::: Re: Taurasi, Parker, Moore Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
Personally, I don't think any one of these three women can be considered the Greatest of All Time.


Agreed. Hard for me to rank anyone of these three the GOAT when the one in Minnesota played for a Hall of Fame coach in Connecticut with a great system surrounded by great players and proceeded to have the same environment in Minnesota. While Taurasi does have three rings, she's also been in the lottery five times, technically four if we're not counting 2012. Parker doesn't really have a strong resume in part due to injuries and not giving a full 100% effort day in and out.


adamj95



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PostPosted: 10/05/17 10:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, according to Kaela Davis on twitter, it’s Parker and apparently she was cheated out a title last night.

Quote:
@Candace_Parker is and always will be the 🐐. Don't @ me. ✋🏾


Quote:
Lol far from salty, just hate to see someone I love get cheated out of something they worked so hard to earn. 🤷🏾‍♀️ #Dismissed



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miller40



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PostPosted: 10/05/17 10:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

adamj95 wrote:
Well, according to Kaela Davis on twitter, it’s Parker and apparently she was cheated out a title last night.

Quote:
@Candace_Parker is and always will be the 🐐. Don't @ me. ✋🏾


Quote:
Lol far from salty, just hate to see someone I love get cheated out of something they worked so hard to earn. 🤷🏾‍♀️ #Dismissed


She certainly takes after her mother.


Shades



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PostPosted: 10/05/17 11:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Kaela Davis is trying to get herself on the Sparks team. Probably wouldn't be that bad of a fit.



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PostPosted: 10/05/17 1:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
I think Kaela Davis is trying to get herself on the Sparks team. Probably wouldn't be that bad of a fit.


Could become AB 2.0 honestly would not be a bad fit at all. No We do not want Lavender or Riquana Or Wiese so before it starts. #NO



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