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josephkramer44



Joined: 23 Aug 2016
Posts: 109



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PostPosted: 09/29/17 2:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
justintyme wrote:
tfan wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
If 1 in 4 people shot by police is black, that is arguably still disproportionate when 12% of the US population is black.


35% of the US jail and prison population is black males. 25% is not disproportionate to 35%, so it is probably the 35% incarceration situation that should be in debate and being protested.

These are not mutually exclusive figures. Both of these are troubling statistics that point to staggering inequality. Thus both of these statistics are being protested...


It has appeared to me like the focus is on the shootings.

I would like to see a strong focus on improving economic conditions in black or mostly black areas that have low income and high crime. It is striking to hear about the crime and violence in black neighborhoods of Chicago, while I also see the mayor fighting hard for the illegal aliens working illegally for illegal wages in the city. We also give our manufacturing jobs to Chinese and Mexican workers, rather than say, unemployed or underemployed or low-wage Chicago workers.


I totally agree we as a nation could do a lot more to provide more opportunity for poorer people in the nation and it wouldn't hurt our nation's bottom line. I don't have all the answers though. If I did my psychic hotline would have done better.


Quietstorm1124



Joined: 18 Feb 2017
Posts: 4



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PostPosted: 09/29/17 9:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Responding to Mr. Kramer's request above:

Richard Wright, Native Son
Richard Wright, Black Boy
Alice Walker, The Color Purple
Alice Walker, In Love and Trouble
Ralph Ellison, Invisible Man
Lorraine Hansberry, A Raisin in the Sun
Lorraine Hansberry, To Be Young, Gifted, and Black
James Baldwin, The Fire Next Time
James Baldwin, Giovanni's Room
James Baldwin, Notes of a Native Son
Gloria Naylor, The Women of Brewster Place
Alex Haley, The Autobiography of Malcolm X
Malcolm X Speaks
Nella Larsen, Passing
Nella Larsen, Quicksand
Ta-Nehisi Coates, Between the World and Me
Anne Moody, Coming of Age in Mississippi
Chinua Achebe, Things Fall Apart
Chinua Achebe, No Longer at Ease
Zadie Smith, White Teeth
Charles Johnson, Middle Passage
Harriet Jacobs, Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl
James McBride, The Color of Water
Roxane Gay, Bad Feminist
Ellis Cose, Rage
Arma Bontemps (ed.), American Negro Poetry
Stokely Carmichael and Charles Hamilton, Black Power
James Weldon Johnson, The Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man
Lynn Nottage, Ruined
Lynn Nottage, Intimate Apparel
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Where Do We Go From Here?
Dominique Morisseau, Skeleton Crew
Richard X. Clark, The Brothers of Attica
Jamaica Kinkaid, A Safe Place
E.R. Braithwaite, To Sir, With Love
Audre Lorde, Sister Outsider
Langston Hughes, Selected Poems
Chimimanda Ngozi Adichie, Half of a Yellow Sun
Chimimanda Ngozi Adichie, We Should All Be Feminists
August Wilson, Fences
August Wilson, Joe Turner's Come and Gone
August Wilson, Jitney
Kim Williams, 40 Hours and an Unwritten Rule
Barack Obama, Dreams from My Father
Crystal Feimster, Southern Horrors

These are in no particular order. I've focused here on African American writers, with a few black writers from other countries thrown in. I've tried to limit it to a maximum of three works per writer. Everyone should feel to add to and improve this list.
I'd like to add
Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness
Harriet A. Washington, Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present
Sudhir Venkatesh, Gang Leader for a Day: A Rogue Sociologist Takes to the Streets
Frantz Fanon, The Wretched of the Earth



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“...There are too many idiots in this world. And having said it, I have the burden of proving it.”
― Frantz Fanon
justinabina



Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 121



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PostPosted: 09/29/17 11:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
What is so "absurd" about asking you to pinpoint a source of this bigotry that you are protesting about? Could it be you can't name an Institution? If you give a list of books I'd be happy to look into it, so long as its not done by Toni Morrison and nothing off of Oprah's book club. I'm more of a Alexandre Dumas and James Michener guy myself, but it never hurts to broaden one's horizons. Speaking of broadening one's horizons didn't the cannibal Carib indians orginially from what is now Venezuela invade Antigua and kill all the Arawaks before the Spanish and English arrived? Not excusing the horrific sugar industry of the Carribean in any way, just saying that many different groups of people over the years have committed terrible crimes and no one's ancestors hands are clean. Thank goodness we are moving past that.


I did mention a good source earlier that looks at specific oppressive institutions. If you are genuinely interested in learning more about institutions that oppress people of color in the U.S., consider watching the documentary 13th on Netflix. It argues that the 13th Amendment, which abolishes involuntary servitude except as punishment for a crime, has allowed for the mass incarceration of African American men (1 in 3 will be jailed in their lifetime, vs. 1 in 17 white American men) and the continued exploitation of African American labor in the prison system. It examines convict leasing and the Jim Crow laws, the civil rights era, and the criminalization of young African American men as "super predators" in politics and the media during the 1970s-1980s-1990s. It looks at legislation like mandatory minimums and three strikes that helps private companies profit off the prison system, which contains disproportionate numbers of people of color. It connects all of this to racial profiling and police murdering black Americans today, with footage of the murders of Oscar Grant, Eric Garner, Philando Castile, Tamir Rice, and others. The film includes interviews with a range of speakers, both liberal and conservative (e.g. Newt Gingrich, who states in the film that white people can't understand the challenge of being black in America). It is critical of Republican and Democratic administrations.

If you are open to learning this history and understanding other perspectives on institutionalized racism, the resources are there. It's up to you - you may not actually want to learn, and that is your choice. But don't pretend these opportunities to learn don't exist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V66F3WU2CKk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ogdgddvqG4[/url]


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 2017
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 09/30/17 6:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quietstorm1124 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Responding to Mr. Kramer's request above:

Richard Wright, Native Son
Richard Wright, Black Boy
Alice Walker, The Color Purple
Alice Walker, In Love and Trouble
Ralph Ellison, Invisible Man
Lorraine Hansberry, A Raisin in the Sun
Lorraine Hansberry, To Be Young, Gifted, and Black
James Baldwin, The Fire Next Time
James Baldwin, Giovanni's Room
James Baldwin, Notes of a Native Son
Gloria Naylor, The Women of Brewster Place
Alex Haley, The Autobiography of Malcolm X
Malcolm X Speaks
Nella Larsen, Passing
Nella Larsen, Quicksand
Ta-Nehisi Coates, Between the World and Me
Anne Moody, Coming of Age in Mississippi
Chinua Achebe, Things Fall Apart
Chinua Achebe, No Longer at Ease
Zadie Smith, White Teeth
Charles Johnson, Middle Passage
Harriet Jacobs, Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl
James McBride, The Color of Water
Roxane Gay, Bad Feminist
Ellis Cose, Rage
Arma Bontemps (ed.), American Negro Poetry
Stokely Carmichael and Charles Hamilton, Black Power
James Weldon Johnson, The Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man
Lynn Nottage, Ruined
Lynn Nottage, Intimate Apparel
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Where Do We Go From Here?
Dominique Morisseau, Skeleton Crew
Richard X. Clark, The Brothers of Attica
Jamaica Kinkaid, A Safe Place
E.R. Braithwaite, To Sir, With Love
Audre Lorde, Sister Outsider
Langston Hughes, Selected Poems
Chimimanda Ngozi Adichie, Half of a Yellow Sun
Chimimanda Ngozi Adichie, We Should All Be Feminists
August Wilson, Fences
August Wilson, Joe Turner's Come and Gone
August Wilson, Jitney
Kim Williams, 40 Hours and an Unwritten Rule
Barack Obama, Dreams from My Father
Crystal Feimster, Southern Horrors

These are in no particular order. I've focused here on African American writers, with a few black writers from other countries thrown in. I've tried to limit it to a maximum of three works per writer. Everyone should feel to add to and improve this list.
I'd like to add
Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness
Harriet A. Washington, Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present
Sudhir Venkatesh, Gang Leader for a Day: A Rogue Sociologist Takes to the Streets
Frantz Fanon, The Wretched of the Earth


Thanks for these great additions. Fanon's book, of course, is a classic. His book Black Skin, White Masks is also valuable.



_________________
Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 2017
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 09/30/17 6:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justinabina wrote:
josephkramer44 wrote:
What is so "absurd" about asking you to pinpoint a source of this bigotry that you are protesting about? Could it be you can't name an Institution? If you give a list of books I'd be happy to look into it, so long as its not done by Toni Morrison and nothing off of Oprah's book club. I'm more of a Alexandre Dumas and James Michener guy myself, but it never hurts to broaden one's horizons. Speaking of broadening one's horizons didn't the cannibal Carib indians orginially from what is now Venezuela invade Antigua and kill all the Arawaks before the Spanish and English arrived? Not excusing the horrific sugar industry of the Carribean in any way, just saying that many different groups of people over the years have committed terrible crimes and no one's ancestors hands are clean. Thank goodness we are moving past that.


I did mention a good source earlier that looks at specific oppressive institutions. If you are genuinely interested in learning more about institutions that oppress people of color in the U.S., consider watching the documentary 13th on Netflix. It argues that the 13th Amendment, which abolishes involuntary servitude except as punishment for a crime, has allowed for the mass incarceration of African American men (1 in 3 will be jailed in their lifetime, vs. 1 in 17 white American men) and the continued exploitation of African American labor in the prison system. It examines convict leasing and the Jim Crow laws, the civil rights era, and the criminalization of young African American men as "super predators" in politics and the media during the 1970s-1980s-1990s. It looks at legislation like mandatory minimums and three strikes that helps private companies profit off the prison system, which contains disproportionate numbers of people of color. It connects all of this to racial profiling and police murdering black Americans today, with footage of the murders of Oscar Grant, Eric Garner, Philando Castile, Tamir Rice, and others. The film includes interviews with a range of speakers, both liberal and conservative (e.g. Newt Gingrich, who states in the film that white people can't understand the challenge of being black in America). It is critical of Republican and Democratic administrations.

If you are open to learning this history and understanding other perspectives on institutionalized racism, the resources are there. It's up to you - you may not actually want to learn, and that is your choice. But don't pretend these opportunities to learn don't exist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V66F3WU2CKk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ogdgddvqG4[/url]


13th is really powerful. Since you've mentioned a film and have also mentioned Oscar Grant, I'd strongly recommend Fruitvale Station, the film about his murder in 2009 at a BART train stop in Oakland, California.

FYI I heard a lecture a few nights ago by the historian Heather Ann Thompson. Her new book, Blood in the Water: The Attica Prison Uprising of 1971 and Its Legacy, won the 2017 Pulitzer Prize in History. Thompson offered a startling analysis of how nationwide reactions to false charges in the media about the Attica prisoners set off the turn toward mass incarceration of African Americans, which hugely accelerated in 1972, right after Attica.

Just seeing the name of Eric Garner is haunting for me. I live in Manhattan, but for two years ran workshops in Staten Island very close to the little park where Garner sold loose cigarettes and was killed by police using a chokehold. When I first read of his death, I knew I'd walked many times on the exact small street bordering that park where Garner must have been standing that day.



_________________
Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 5630



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PostPosted: 10/01/17 7:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

White House reverses course, will invite Gamecocks to visit ‘later in the fall’

"The South Carolina Gamecocks will soon be given an invite to the White House, as stated by Nikki Haley from the office of United Nations Ambassador."


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 19630
Location: London


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PostPosted: 10/01/17 7:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
White House reverses course, will invite Gamecocks to visit ‘later in the fall’

"The South Carolina Gamecocks will soon be given an invite to the White House, as stated by Nikki Haley from the office of United Nations Ambassador."

Which of course has absolutely nothing to do with Staley having already said that she'd accept the invite.



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Independent WNBA coverage: http://www.wnbalien.com/
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 2017
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 10/02/17 10:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's great that the Sparks have continued their protest through four games of the finals by staying in the locker room during the national anthem. I have to assume the same will be true on Wednesday night. We know that many NFL players and teams have continued to protest in various ways. This week the NBA begins exhibition games; we'll see how NBA players express themselves.



_________________
Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.
Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 422



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PostPosted: 10/02/17 7:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
It's great that the Sparks have continued their protest through four games of the finals by staying in the locker room during the national anthem. I have to assume the same will be true on Wednesday night.


Man, even if I didn't hate the Lynx, I'd still be rooting for Los Angeles to win this series, just so that I don't have to read any of the think pieces, or hear from any of the mouth-breathers on social media, with their 'karma' hot takes, if they lose.



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Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8518



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PostPosted: 11/17/17 1:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

South Carolina Women's Basketball Team Declines Donald Trump White House Invite

Quote:
"We did hear from the White House about attending tomorrow's event, but we will not be able to attend," Staley said in a statement, via CNN's Jill Martin. "As I've been saying since our practices for this season started, all of our focus is on the season ahead. The only invitation we are thinking about is to the 2018 NCAA tournament."


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2744739-south-carolina-womens-basketball-team-declines-donald-trump-white-house-invite?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial



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I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
Libra_Girl



Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Posts: 984



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PostPosted: 11/18/17 8:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So the GameCock got a invite but the Sparks didnt interesting.Its also interesting to hear Dawn comment about the WH invite cause she was saying different when they won.


willtalk



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 264
Location: NorCal


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PostPosted: 11/21/17 12:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The core of this thread reminds me of the parable of the blind men and the elephant. You know the story where each blind man feels a different part of the elephant and comes to a conclusion based on the part of the elephant he is feeling. The moral of the story is about coming to conclusions based on a singulair perspective taken out of context. The key is context.

Bigotry takes many form and ride many horses to justify itself. Racism is but one of many. All are means to validate class distinctions and justify inequality and unjust treatment of others. It is a form of establishing class entitlement. Race is only just one criteria used for that purpose but class distinctions and bigotry can still exist in a race- less society.

I have relatives and close friends that are voracious readers. Well reading can only take you so far. There is nothing that can be gotten from reading that the right life experience and talking to actual people can not do better.

Perspectives can be either micro or macro. Individual experiences are usually micro or one part of the elephant. Very valuable if put into perspective. So it is also important to to not be micro focused exclusively on one part of the elephant. In our society certain intellectual groups collectively tend to focus on specific areas to the detriment of objectivity. So everyone in specific generations tend to read the same books. I find that I can usually recognize a persons perspective by their age and the group they belong to. Most tend to think they are broad minded but in reality the entire group tends to think alike. It seems to run in cycles that entire groups break off from established group think comfort zones to only establish their own group think comfort zones.

It appears that Racism has taken the exclusive center stage for the focus on bigotry. The focus has become micro. Well that along with sexism and gay rights to a lesser degree. In doing so perspective on bigotry in general is lost. Racism, sexism and other exclusionary creations to justify ill treatment of others via the establishment of class distinctions are a few faces that bigotry takes. If we focus exclusively on area the injustice will manifest in another. We can easily become bigots ourselves in the fight against bigotry.

I will recommend a book my self now. Actually only a part of a book. The part that is usually ignored. It deals with the inherent problems in eliminating systemic class distinctions. I refer to Jonathan Swifts Gullivers travels chapters that deal with Gullivers experience in the land of the Houyhnhnms. It draws a parallel to his own experience with the English class distinctions in respect to the lower class and especially the Irish. It is about how the Houyhnhnms only saw him as a Yahoo and therefor as never being their equal even though he was more like them than the Yahoo's. The point it makes is that it is not always possible to elevate an entire group out of the effects of systemic class distinctions. However the opportunity can and should be made available to those who desire to. The English in respect to the lower class and Irish ( how they saw him as well) were like the Houyhnhnms were to Gulliver. They created an impossible barrier which kept everyone in their born class.

You can not change the past via present actions. Justice and equality has to begin today for everyone equally. To attempt to reverse the past via favoritism just establishes a different system of inequality. I always find it interesting how generous some people are to the disadvantaged in a their quest to establish their own moral superiority. They are quick to offer them someone else's place in line, but never their own. That in itself is reflective of a self serving class distinction.


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