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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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 Posted: 10/01/17 12:56 pm ::: |
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While the narrative of Bird being the team’s oldest player remains relevant, the soon to be 15-year WNBA vet continues to tune out the age conversation and let her play on the court speak for itself.
Following opening day of training camp, it is evident that Bird’s motor and savviness have not declined.
“There’s an evolution that happens in a player’s career. As you get older, you have to look in the mirror and decide what you want things to look like and how you want to go out,” Bird explained. “There were things that I needed to change from a workout and nutrition standpoint. The best way to sum it up is that as you get older, you can’t just rely on your youth and physical attributes. You have to dot every I, cross every T, and control everything you can. I just try to control all that I can control and just see how it goes.” |
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Location: NJ
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| Posted: 10/01/17 1:45 pm ::: |
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| I love Bird, but it's time to pass the torch.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 10/01/17 4:03 pm ::: |
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So anyone hoping a change of coach might break down the "old girls club" and create a fair opportunity for others is obviously going to be disappointed.
Same ol' same ol'.
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#Occasionalwnbafan
Joined: 01 Mar 2012
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16358
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: 10/01/17 8:12 pm ::: |
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[quote="ArtBest23"]
So anyone hoping a change of coach might break down the "old girls club" and create a fair opportunity for others is obviously going to be disappointed.
Same ol' same ol'.[/quote
Not when that coach is the most entrenched old girl there is.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 10/01/17 10:08 pm ::: |
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Mitchell and Plum are about the same height.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/j_mUGdu3wvc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 16464
Location: Holland
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| Posted: 10/02/17 3:30 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
So anyone hoping a change of coach might break down the "old girls club" and create a fair opportunity for others is obviously going to be disappointed.
Same ol' same ol'. |
I dont see a problem with Whalen passing the torch to someone younger and let Bird guide that younger guard (Diggins or whoever). You want Diggins and Gray to lead this team right away?
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"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
Last edited by Michelle89 on 10/02/17 7:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 10/02/17 3:58 am ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
So anyone hoping a change of coach might break down the "old girls club" and create a fair opportunity for others is obviously going to be disappointed.
Same ol' same ol'. |
I dont see a problem with Whalen passing the torch to someone younger and let Bird guide that younger guard (Diggins or whoever). You want Diggins and Gray to lead this team right away. |
I can see Sims getting the nod over Diggins/Gray.
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 10/02/17 8:57 am ::: |
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| zune69 wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
So anyone hoping a change of coach might break down the "old girls club" and create a fair opportunity for others is obviously going to be disappointed.
Same ol' same ol'. |
I dont see a problem with Whalen passing the torch to someone younger and let Bird guide that younger guard (Diggins or whoever). You want Diggins and Gray to lead this team right away. |
I can see Sims getting the nod over Diggins/Gray. |
Sims is a great talent, but when it’s comes to being a “leader” there’s something I can’t quite put my finger on concerning her in that department. Now Diggins and Gray on the other hand, I can definitely see them as the rallying vocal presence needed for Team USA.
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 10/02/17 8:59 am ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
So anyone hoping a change of coach might break down the "old girls club" and create a fair opportunity for others is obviously going to be disappointed.
Same ol' same ol'. |
You want Diggins and Gray to lead this team right away? |
That’s part of the problem, a younger player should’ve already been groomed for this spot like they did with Bird at the 04 olympics, although even with that experience, her debut as the starting pg for Team USA was disastrous.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 10/02/17 9:08 am ::: |
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| Iluvacc wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
So anyone hoping a change of coach might break down the "old girls club" and create a fair opportunity for others is obviously going to be disappointed.
Same ol' same ol'. |
You want Diggins and Gray to lead this team right away? |
That’s part of the problem, a younger player should’ve already been groomed for this spot like they did with Bird at the 04 olympics, although even with that experience, her debut as the starting pg for Team USA was disastrous. |
Iluvacc is correct.
But since they didn't, yeah Diggins and Gray can easily lead this team right away and deserve to.
You want to play the same team until they can't stand up without a walker? People get older. It's the way life works. Time to move on ( actually It's overdue).
I have no idea why you think the team is better off with 40 year olds, because it isn't.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66900
Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 10/02/17 10:09 am ::: |
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| zune69 wrote: |
| I can see Sims getting the nod over Diggins/Gray. |
Considering both Diggins and Gray have been starting PGs on teams with Sims, it seems puzzling anyone would think Sims is a better PG than either of them.
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 10/02/17 10:30 am ::: |
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For some reason I can’t pull up the podcast. Can you give a brief synopsis?
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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Location: London
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| Posted: 10/02/17 10:41 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
| I can see Sims getting the nod over Diggins/Gray. |
Considering both Diggins and Gray have been starting PGs on teams with Sims, it seems puzzling anyone would think Sims is a better PG than either of them. |
Have they? Rather depends on what you're considering point guard. Sims was the one bringing the ball up the floor and initiating the start of the offense more often in Tulsa/Dallas. And now in LA a lot of the responsibilities are split, although Gray's definitely the one with more passing vision who piles up more assists (and Parker initiates a lot herself as well). Sims is always the one defending the opposing point guard in LA if you want to define it that way.
If you pick Sims over options like Diggins and Gray you're doing it for the defense more than anything, which we've finally seen rise to something vaguely approximating her reputation this season - now that she's playing for Agler instead of Fred Williams. They did try to start the point guard transition when they took Sims to the 2014 Worlds, but then she sucked for a while in Tulsa/Dallas and they needed the roster spot for more vets at other spots.
I understand the value of vets (and I did listen to dtsnms's podcast with Callan), but I'm not sure the 'they'll know when to let go' thing really seems to apply any more. The vets aren't quitting. Catchings is the only one gone, and if she hadn't retired from the game entirely she'd still be on the squad as well. There's value to experience and veteran leadership but at some oint if the players don't call time themselves, you'll have to do it for them. |
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 10/02/17 12:04 pm ::: |
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That worked. Thanks!
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 10/02/17 1:04 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
| I can see Sims getting the nod over Diggins/Gray. |
Considering both Diggins and Gray have been starting PGs on teams with Sims, it seems puzzling anyone would think Sims is a better PG than either of them. |
Diggins is slightly better on offense,while Sims is far superior at pressuring the basketball.If I had to choose a starting pg,I'd take Diggins over Sims.However,with Bird's roster spot being a foregone conclusion.Sims would bring something to the table that team usa is lacking(defense at the point)....BTW...Sims was the starting pg for the select team that lost to team USA by only 4 pts.Sims put up 17p/6r/6a/ on 6-11 shooting.D.Staley was HC of the select team.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 10/02/17 1:39 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
| I can see Sims getting the nod over Diggins/Gray. |
Considering both Diggins and Gray have been starting PGs on teams with Sims, it seems puzzling anyone would think Sims is a better PG than either of them. |
Evidently the voters don't.
Diggins - All WNBA - two 1st team selections
Gray - All WNBA - one 2nd team selection
Sims - nothing
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 10/02/17 1:57 pm ::: |
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There's always a tension between winning tonight and building for the future ...
For example, if I were the Sparks and magically had had a choice between having Sue Bird as my point guard this year, or Chelsea Gray or Odyssey Sims, I would have taken Bird in a heartbeat if I wanted to win this year.
But if I wanted to build the franchise, the difference between Bird today and Gray today would not be enough to offset the difference between Bird and Gray for the rest of their careers.
If I want to win the 2018 World Championship, Bird is the better choice; if I'm more focused on laying the foundation for the future, she likely isn't.
But there's an old apocryphal baseball story about a manager in the middle of a St. Louis summer heat wave that was supposed to continue for weeks with blue skies and hot weather. He used his entire bullpen to win a game, and was asked "Why did you use all those guys?" He looked up at the clear blue sky and said "It might rain tomorrow."
Which is a long way of saying you just never know when you'll have a chance to win again, no matter how confident you might be.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 10/02/17 2:11 pm ::: |
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Well you tried your very hardest to get Callan to say that Sue Bird "deserves" to play until she's sixty if she damn well feels like it.
She didn't quite agree with your leading question, but her "trust" that they'll all step aside for younger players when they should has proven to be completely unwarranted.
Indeed, all of your questions about both players and coaches (i.e. Walz) manifest your view that it's all about loyalty and "well they've devoted time to USA Basketball, so they deserve the slot." ( In the case of players, for as long as they want it, which is what you actually said on the podcast.) Nary a mention of merit.
This is how you pick the United States Olympic Team. It's not supposed to be a private club.
And of course Callan has been in the middle of it for twenty years. She's right in the middle of the "clique" system.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 10/02/17 2:21 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
There's always a tension between winning tonight and building for the future ...
For example, if I were the Sparks and magically had had a choice between having Sue Bird as my point guard this year, or Chelsea Gray or Odyssey Sims, I would have taken Bird in a heartbeat if I wanted to win this year. |
Well THIS year, Diggins dragged a far weaker less talented Wings team to a better record than Bird's Storm.
Both Diggins and Gray were voted to All WNBA teams. Bird wasn't.
Are you sure your heartbeat choice isn't based on reputation and nostalgia rather than actual current performance?
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 10/02/17 3:03 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Well you tried your very hardest to get Callan to say that Sue Bird "deserves" to play until she's sixty if she damn well feels like it.
She didn't quite agree with your leading question, but her "trust" that they'll all step aside for younger players when they should has proven to be completely unwarranted.
Indeed, all of your questions about both players and coaches (i.e. Walz) manifest your view that it's all about loyalty and "well they've devoted time to USA Basketball, so they deserve the slot." ( In the case of players, for as long as they want it, which is what you actually said on the podcast.) Nary a mention of merit.
This is how you pick the United States Olympic Team. It's not supposed to be a private club.
And of course Callan has been in the middle of it for twenty years. She's right in the middle of the "clique" system. |
Just because I don't prescribe to your point of view, doesn't make my opinion any less accurate or correct than yours. Both have merit, and I have never criticized yours on the topic.
Yes, I absolutely feel that with the amount of time they have given to USA basketball, as long as Bird and Taurasi are playing decent ball, and they certainly are, they deserve to play. I felt that way for Catchings too.
You are supposed to pick who gives you the best chance to win, to answer your "private club" statement, and Taurasi and Bird are two proven commodities that not only merit inclusion, but as recent as last year's Olympics deserve their starting positions.
Regarding merit, it is assumed that whoever is in camp deserves a spot on the roster; as Clay said, any five (positions considered) out of the camp can probably win gold. So who is to decide who makes the team based on merit as you say? What constitutes merit? In this thread alone, people can't decide if Sims, Diggins, or Gray is a better point guard. Just because you feel someone merits inclusion, someone else may disagree, including the committee.
I did ask how do you handle the conundrum of people like Vandersloot going off to play elsewhere when you don't give them an opportunity.
I did ask how players not in the "pipeline" throughout their careers break into the USA Basketball rotation.
Regarding coaches, Walz just worked with the bridge team. You don't think he deserves a chance to work with the senior team after donating his time this summer to that? You heard that during college basketball season they will use pro coaches. i asked how someone like Miller breaks in.
You make it sound like I asked none of those questions. What else did you want me to ask? Why Parker was left off the Olympic team and not get an answer again?
She explained about what makes a player eligible like Hayes. She said that she feels the Birds and Taurasis will know when it's time to quit. She said it's a golden opportunity for the college kids and new players without the Olympians. She said these players all have an advantage in working with Staley early.
Was it a perfect interview where I got all the deep dark secrets in the closet of USA Basketball, of course not.
But I disagree that I led Callan anywhere. I've had her on enough that I know she will give USA Basketball's statement one way or the other.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 10/02/17 3:28 pm ::: |
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Why not just ask straightforward questions? Why do you make such an effort to use loooong leading questions to try to get guests to sign on to your point of view?
I'd prefer to hear THEIR view in response to a balanced open ended question. We all know how you feel about it.
And yes, we do disagree.
This interview wasn't unique in your reliance on speachmaking and long leading questions, by the way. I think your interviews could be better if you'd give guests the latitude to answer on their own.
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#Occasionalwnbafan
Joined: 01 Mar 2012
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| Posted: 10/02/17 3:31 pm ::: |
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| I'm not buying the Sims over Diggins-Smith because she plays better D argument. Team USA has went with Bird backup by Whalen for years, why would defense be important now? Also if you have Curry or Westbrook on a team full of stars do you expect them to become passers all of a sudden? Having a scoring guard lead team USA isn't a bad ideal. Unlike Griner, EDD, Parker, Charles, Sims and others Diggins-Smith has never had a great pro coach, yet she still lead an up and down Wings team to the playoffs, a better finish then teams with/ who has had multiple all stars, and she had the Shock in a position to get a top seed out west before she got hurt in 2015. All that said Diggins-Smith has been a great pro, and has earned her spot on a USA team. |
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