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Criminal indictments are exposing shoe money corruption
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justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 09/29/17 3:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Art, since this is much more in your wheelhouse than mine what are your thoughts on this article from Sports Illustrated?

Latest College Basketball Scandal Carries Stench of Prosecutorial Overreach

Does this guy have a solid point, or is he just as much of a blowhard as he seems? On face value it seems that he is upset because the supply and demand of this "shadow market" should mean that o one goes to prision. But wouldn't that be the case for just about every corruption/bribery case? That perhaps the students should be paid and that the NCAA is bordeline corrupt themselves seems like a bad reason to say that these people should not be prosecuted for doing what they did.



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PlayBally'all



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PostPosted: 09/29/17 4:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
mzonefan wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
It's all about money, so the women should be relatively well protected from this particular scandal ...

But, mounting my hobby horse once again, what we're really talking about here is that players are worth thousands and thousands of dollars to big-time programs, and this is partially the marketplace at work.

If players were paid what they were worth (whatever that might be), they would not need to take money under the table, or ask for money. And if they had agents, all of this would be regulated and aboveboard.

It is the blatant hypocrisy of the sham that is the NCAA's "amateurism" in a billion-dollar industry that created this situation -- and I hope this is just the beginning of massive reform of a broken and corrupt system.


This has nothing to do with being worth money to schools. This has to do with being worth money to shoe companies and "financial advisors".


Really? Are you saying that the schools have nothing to gain financially from signing one of these shoe company targets? How about increased ticket sales, merchandising, heightened recruiting visibility for the next target, contract bonuses for wins, a bigger apparel contract and all of the other benefits that the coaches and their schools get from having one of these players on their roster?


The theory of the govt's case is that the schools were victims of the fraud, not beneficiaries.


That is the theory of the case pertaining to the arrests of the four assistant coaches. That is separate and apart from the recruiting side of the story. The assistant coaches arrested are not accused of providing money for recruits in order to get them to attend a program. They are only accused of taking money personally in exchange for steering players already on campus to an agent in hopes of them using that agent when they entered the NBA draft.


PlayBally'all



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PostPosted: 09/29/17 4:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
I'm sure Nikes does the same thing as Adidas, and all the FBI needs to do is find one guy named in the subpoenaed materials and get him to flip on the others.


Not all of the arrested coaches are from Adidas schools. Some are from Nike and Under Armour schools.


Every arrest does not have a connection to recruiting. There are two different schemes involved. One with recruiting and the other with steering players to an agent. Very different at their core/.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 09/29/17 4:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Art, since this is much more in your wheelhouse than mine what are your thoughts on this article from Sports Illustrated?.


He's full of it.

Take a simple example. If the allegations are to be believed, Chuck Person plainly used his reputation and relationship with unsophisticated kids and their parents to get them to sign on with unqualified and unscrupulous "financial advisors" and lied to them to do it. This is pretty straightforward fraud.

He told them the advisor handled his money. Lie. He told them he handled Charles Barkley's money. Lie. He told them the guy was great. He had no idea whether the guy was good but if he had bothered checking he'd know the guy had a history of complaints and charges. And he did it because he was taking payoffs from the guy he was promoting.

I don't see the problem. That's illegal in any business I know of.
People get prosecuted for commercial bribery and kickbacks all the time.


readyAIMfire53



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 5266
Location: Durham, NC


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PostPosted: 09/29/17 5:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
The girls' Nike EYBL is run by different people ...

Here's my understanding of some aspects of this:

On the boys' side, Nike will give club coaches $100,000 and they can do what they want with it. The top clubs also get gear, and are constantly updating uniforms and shoes during the summer season, so it's a pretty expensive package. But then again, apparel is a pretty big business.

On the girls' side, there are fewer sponsored clubs, and they don't get cash. They get apparel, and some other benefits, but it's a much different scenario.

But as McGraw says, it's not like women's basketball is squeaky clean. College coaching is a nice gig, and even a $150,000 salary (I would love to have come close to half that in my journalism career) is worth fudging the lines a bit.

I don't think anyone's handing out cash, but there are ways to generate income for players and families that don't show up on intercollegiate balance sheets.


You'd be wrong on this one. NCAA investigations are a joke.



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justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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Location: Northfield, MN


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PostPosted: 09/29/17 5:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Art, since this is much more in your wheelhouse than mine what are your thoughts on this article from Sports Illustrated?.


He's full of it.

Take a simple example. If the allegations are to be believed, Chuck Person plainly used his reputation and relationship with unsophisticated kids and their parents to get them to sign on with unqualified and unscrupulous "financial advisors" and lied to them to do it. This is pretty straightforward fraud.

He told them the advisor handled his money. Lie. He told them he handled Charles Barkley's money. Lie. He told them the guy was great. He had no idea whether the guy was good but if he had bothered checking he'd know the guy had a history of complaints and charges. And he did it because he was taking payoffs from the guy he was promoting.

I don't see the problem. That's illegal in any business I know of.
People get prosecuted for commercial bribery and kickbacks all the time.

Thanks, Art. That was what my layman's senses were telling me about this, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't making poor assumptions about how cases like this were handled. His opening bit about the NY US Attorney also seemed fairly specious. I mean, he just kind of threw a bunch of random circumstances at the wall and suggested that they meant something nefarious rather than showing any real evidence of impropriety...I guess hoping that the reader would fill in the lack of evidence with assumptions that mirrored his own.



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linkster



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PostPosted: 09/30/17 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
lvf08 wrote:
@Raoul_000

Asked about FBI probe into corruption in MBB, Notre Dame coach Muffet McGraw claims there's cheating going on in WBB https://www.ndinsider.com/basketball/womens/notebook-notre-dame-women-s-basketball-makes-volunteering-competitive/article_3ea1ee94-a3dd-11e7-a04f-cb46de761483.html

https://twitter.com/Raoul_000/status/913220996697612288


Could be a dig at McGuff, Walz etc.


The only thing I can think of is the possibility that schools are funnelling money to AAU coaches to steer recruits to their school. That would be a tough thing to prove as cash could get to them for example through boosters.


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