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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8227
Location: Heisenberg
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 Posted: 09/21/17 9:14 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
Outstanding article in the LA Times.
There are 3 types of single-payer 'concern trolls' — and they all want to undermine universal healthcare
| Quote: |
The nuance troll: ‘We need more details!’
Less than 24 hours after the bill’s introduction, New York Magazine’s Jonathan Chait lamented that the bill gets America “zero percent” closer to single payer. While saying he agrees with single payer in theory, he insisted that the 155 million Americans who already have healthcare represent an insuperable barrier, and that the issue of how to move them all to a government-run system “is not a detail to be worked out...
And if the demand for nuance seems reasonable enough, consider that pundits rarely require it when it comes to military interventions — Chait and others set this issue aside when it came to invading Iraq in 2003, for instance. The idea at the time was: This is an urgent threat, we will rush to solve it and sort out the details later. With an estimated 45,000 people dying a year because of a lack of healthcare and almost half of the money raised on GoFundMe used to pay medical bills, we must ask: How is this crisis any less urgent? |
| Quote: |
The deficit troll: ‘How do you pay for it?’
Of all the water-muddying tactics, this one is the easiest to set aside. As I’ve noted in these pages before, deficit scare-mongering is used, almost exclusively, as a bludgeon to smear progressive policy proposals. When it comes to launching wars or bailing out banks, these fears vanish.
Articles in the Washington Post, Vox and Think Progress all asked how Sanders’ single-payer bill would be “paid for,” yet not a single one of those outlets asked the same question the day after the Senate signed a $700-billion military spending bill, an increase of roughly 13% from 2017. (That $80 billion increase alone could cover 2017-2018 tuition for every student at a 4-year state university in the country.) Money for war is magically always there; money for healthcare must be counted bean by bean. |
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Congress is considering revising/replacing the most massive financial legislation in U.S. history, affecting one-sixth of the economy. Any journalist who says that people are "trolls" when they ask about the details of this plan and how to pay for it -- is either ignorant, a partisan ideologue, or a "nonconcern" troll. I'll bet on all three. |
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19760
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| Posted: 09/28/17 7:20 pm ::: |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
It's hard arguing with you, mercfan3.
Here's why. Young senators. Said it three times so it must be true, right?
| mercfan3 wrote: |
makes a big deal out of his Single Payor plan, gets young ambitious senators to sign onto it
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All the young, ambitious Senators..
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the young Presidential hopefuls signing up
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'cept the average age of the signees of Sanders's bill is 61.4 years old.
I'm here to TELL you, I don't think 60 is old but these people are older than foolish me who has the temerity to try "OLDSPLAINING" things to you. And... almost twice the age of the charmed lovely who wrote the piece you found so worth linking to. I'll get to that later.
In the meantime. Here are some of the names and ages of nine of the 15 young punk US senators who went along with Sanders.
Mr. BLUMENTHAL, 71
Mr. FRANKEN, 66
Ms. HIRONO, 69
Mr. LEAHY, 77
Mr. MARKEY, 71
Mr. MERKLEY, 60
Mr. UDALL, 69
Ms. WARREN, 68
Mr. WHITEHOUSE, 61
Add to that list Mr. SANDERS, 76 years old, and TEN of the 16 senators behind this bill are over 60 and all but two of those are at or beyond the normal age of retirement.
Wait a minute. I think I see how you could be right here. These senators I've listed are SO old, and there's SO many of them, that they're skewing the average age of the group. Right? Okay. I get it! We're cool.
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Sigh
Aside from picking a small point I made and making a weird argument about it, here are the names YOU listed in the post I responded to.
Al Franken (Possible 2020 candidate)
Elizabeth Warren (Possible 2020 candidate)
Kamila Harris (Young. Possible 2020 candidate)
Kirstin Gillibrand (Young. Possible 2020 candidate)
And the biggest name you failed to mention was Cory Booker (Young. Possible 2020 candidate).
Again. All Democrats agree about Universal Healthcare. That's literally a platform of the party. It's nothing new.
The question is, how do we get there? If Bernie wants single payer..he needs to act like a damn legislator and tell us how the hell he wants to get there.
So I have to question if that's what he really wants. It feels like another round of Bernie targeting well meaning Democrats.
Which is why we saw all of our potential 2020 picks are either joining with Sanders, or creating their own.
_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19760
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| Posted: 09/28/17 7:22 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
Outstanding article in the LA Times.
There are 3 types of single-payer 'concern trolls' — and they all want to undermine universal healthcare
| Quote: |
The nuance troll: ‘We need more details!’
Less than 24 hours after the bill’s introduction, New York Magazine’s Jonathan Chait lamented that the bill gets America “zero percent” closer to single payer. While saying he agrees with single payer in theory, he insisted that the 155 million Americans who already have healthcare represent an insuperable barrier, and that the issue of how to move them all to a government-run system “is not a detail to be worked out...
And if the demand for nuance seems reasonable enough, consider that pundits rarely require it when it comes to military interventions — Chait and others set this issue aside when it came to invading Iraq in 2003, for instance. The idea at the time was: This is an urgent threat, we will rush to solve it and sort out the details later. With an estimated 45,000 people dying a year because of a lack of healthcare and almost half of the money raised on GoFundMe used to pay medical bills, we must ask: How is this crisis any less urgent? |
| Quote: |
The deficit troll: ‘How do you pay for it?’
Of all the water-muddying tactics, this one is the easiest to set aside. As I’ve noted in these pages before, deficit scare-mongering is used, almost exclusively, as a bludgeon to smear progressive policy proposals. When it comes to launching wars or bailing out banks, these fears vanish.
Articles in the Washington Post, Vox and Think Progress all asked how Sanders’ single-payer bill would be “paid for,” yet not a single one of those outlets asked the same question the day after the Senate signed a $700-billion military spending bill, an increase of roughly 13% from 2017. (That $80 billion increase alone could cover 2017-2018 tuition for every student at a 4-year state university in the country.) Money for war is magically always there; money for healthcare must be counted bean by bean. |
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Congress is considering revising/replacing the most massive financial legislation in U.S. history, affecting one-sixth of the economy. Any journalist who says that people are "trolls" when they ask about the details of this plan and how to pay for it -- is either ignorant, a partisan ideologue, or a "nonconcern" troll. I'll bet on all three. |
I don't agree with you often in politics. But I agree here.
_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
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| Posted: 09/29/17 3:56 am ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
makes a big deal out of his Single Payor plan, gets young ambitious senators to sign onto it
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All the young, ambitious Senators..
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the young Presidential hopefuls signing up
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Sigh. I'm sorry. When you repeatedly mentioned that the senators who signed Bernie's bill were young, I (sigh again ) thought you actually meant it. My bad.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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