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Tally24



Joined: 14 Feb 2012
Posts: 2709
Location: Baton Rouge


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PostPosted: 09/11/17 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
Tally24 wrote:
Phoenix:
Mitchell
Taurasi
Bonner
Griner
Turner
Little


I have to override this. Dump Little, keep Currie.


No way they protect Turner. Robinson has trade value, at least in theory.


They should protect the better player.


If we dump Little, we start either Cannon or Franics. I'd rather keep Little.
Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24326
Location: London


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PostPosted: 09/11/17 12:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Scary that DRob has had so little impact this season that when pilight said "Robinson has trade value" I thought "Would anyone really give up something for Angel Robinson?"



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Kailapea



Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 1255
Location: Northridge, CA


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PostPosted: 09/11/17 12:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Kailapea wrote:
Sparks

Parker
Ogumike
Gray
Simms
Lavender
Weise (need some young blood that can be developed)

**Would obviously protect Beard but she is retiring**


Didn't somebody claim recently that she was waffling on retiring or claimed she never said she was retiring?

Maybe Beard's not a prominent enough player, but retired players usually get honored by opposing teams for that player's last visit. It just doesn't have the feel that she's really retiring. It's never been a point of emphasis with the media.


I think she committed to one year. I could be mistaken but was pretty sure she was done.....



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Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 2539



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PostPosted: 09/11/17 12:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kailapea wrote:
Sparks

Parker
Ogumike
Gray
Simms
Lavender
Weise (need some young blood that can be developed)

**Would obviously protect Beard but she is retiring**


Weise struggles following scout plans, trade her.


Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 2539



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PostPosted: 09/11/17 12:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Scary that DRob has had so little impact this season that when pilight said "Robinson has trade value" I thought "Would anyone really give up something for Angel Robinson?"


Taurrasi back taking control with little Mitchell coming on late.


sigur3



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 6191
Location: Chicago-ish


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PostPosted: 09/11/17 12:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Kailapea wrote:
Sparks

Parker
Ogumike
Gray
Simms
Lavender
Weise (need some young blood that can be developed)

**Would obviously protect Beard but she is retiring**


Weise struggles following scout plans, trade her.


Care to elaborate on this?


Kailapea



Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 1255
Location: Northridge, CA


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PostPosted: 09/11/17 1:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sigur3 wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
Kailapea wrote:
Sparks

Parker
Ogumike
Gray
Simms
Lavender
Weise (need some young blood that can be developed)

**Would obviously protect Beard but she is retiring**


Weise struggles following scout plans, trade her.


Care to elaborate on this?


Dunno about that one. Toler sings Weise's praise a lot. Really likes the kid.



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J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 09/13/17 11:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

so just trying to finish this up

Seattle
Bird
Loyd
Stewart
Langhorne
Clark
Tokashiki

Conn
J. Thomas
C. Williams
A. Thomas
J. Jones
C. Ogwumike
who gets the last spot Bentley, Stricklen or Tuck?


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6775



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PostPosted: 09/13/17 11:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So in a world without free agency this could be an expansion team prior to the draft

R. Montgomery/Faulkner
R. Williams/Bentley/Colson
B. Holmes/Coleman
Hawkins/Vaughn/Cannon
Paris/Swords

Not a great team but could probably beat this years version of SA or Indy and if you throw in a decent draft pick wouldn't humiliate themselves or the league.

Needs a little help in the post. For any post who did make t there was almost always a better guard option that could be taken from the same team proving that posts are at more of a premium than guards.


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6775



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 12:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

or this if we flip the selections around

Hartley/Latta/Chong
Perkins/Whitcomb
Stricklen/Carson
Dantas/C. Little/Burdick
Larkins/Ch. Parker

C. Little is assuming
D-Rob, Mitchell, Turner, Currie, DT and Griner are the 6 protected player in PX


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63711



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 1:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
So in a world without free agency this could be an expansion team prior to the draft

R. Montgomery/Faulkner
R. Williams/Bentley/Colson
B. Holmes/Coleman
Hawkins/Vaughn/Cannon
Paris/Swords


Ish.

Unless Swords is cored or otherwise signed by SEA, she shouldn't be subject to a draft. She would be able to go where she wants. Some of these others might be the same. What's Paris', Vaughn, and Coleman's contract statuses?

J-Spoon wrote:
Not a great team but could probably beat this years version of SA or Indy and if you throw in a decent draft pick wouldn't humiliate themselves or the league.


I think they'd be fairly humiliated.



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J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6775



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 4:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

yeah if you take out all the players that could be unrestricted free agents it gets a little rougher

Faulkner/A. Jones
Hartley/R. Williams/Whitcomb
B. Holmes/Stricklen
Hawkins/Plaisance/Burdick
Hanson/Cannon

(Technically any or all of Larkins, Vaughn, Swords, Paris, C. Little, R. Montgomery, J. Perkins could be UFA. The post goes from thin, to super thin with the vets removed.)


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63711



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 9:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Now change it to protect 5, and see how much the team improves.



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
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PostPosted: 09/14/17 9:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Expansion teams will always be bad at first



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ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11102



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 10:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
yeah if you take out all the players that could be unrestricted free agents it gets a little rougher

Faulkner/A. Jones
Hartley/R. Williams/Whitcomb
B. Holmes/Stricklen
Hawkins/Plaisance/Burdick
Hanson/Cannon

(Technically any or all of Larkins, Vaughn, Swords, Paris, C. Little, R. Montgomery, J. Perkins could be UFA. The post goes from thin, to super thin with the vets removed.)


Who's going to score? This team is very, very easy to defend.

And there's no size.

It's completely understandable that existing teams want to protect their assets, and that bad teams want the high draft choices they've "earned", so it's unrealistic to expect the owners to decide that an expansion team should have access to good players or top draft picks.

Or let's put this another way: We know the Bay Area will get a team, and let's say it got this team for next summer. How would that work out for Bay Area fans, and what impression would they and the media get of the WNBA?



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jap



Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 7909



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 10:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kailapea wrote:
Shades wrote:
Kailapea wrote:
Sparks

Parker
Ogumike
Gray
Simms
Lavender
Weise (need some young blood that can be developed)

**Would obviously protect Beard but she is retiring**


Didn't somebody claim recently that she was waffling on retiring or claimed she never said she was retiring?

Maybe Beard's not a prominent enough player, but retired players usually get honored by opposing teams for that player's last visit. It just doesn't have the feel that she's really retiring. It's never been a point of emphasis with the media.


I think she committed to one year. I could be mistaken but was pretty sure she was done.....


Reportedly, Alana herself said her supposed retirement after this year was a mis-informed rumor that she had nothing to do with. She's probably taking things on a year by year basis, assessing how her body feels at the end of each season, and then making the call to continue or hang up her kicks. As long as she's still having fun, why not roll with her teammates and friends? Besides, she still has some pupils in her defensive school (e.g., Chelsea, Odyssey, Riquna, Sydney) who need more guidance from the Minister of Defense before they officially graduate. Wink



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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63711



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 11:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My protect 5 team

Boyette
Howard
Zahui
Ruffin-Pratt
Faulkner
Gwathmey (assumes high flight risk or UFA for January. Could lock her up with a core but their are better options at PG)
Davis (assumes DAL protects Cambage)
DRobinson
Hamby
RWilliams (assumes high retirement risk for Beard)
Tokashiki
Bentley

If the team, gets first non-lottery pick, I'll have them choosing DeShields.

Training camp for the 2018 St Paul Shades
DRob/Faulkner
Bentley/RWilliams/Gwathmey
Ruffin-Pratt/DeShields/Davis
Howard/Hamby/Tokashiki
Boyette/Zahui

.... plus 2 more draft picks


A little heavy on the guard side quality, because teams tend to protect their posts.

Tuck instead of Bentley is an option, but Tuck has a hard time staying on the floor. Can this team steal the rights to Torrens?

Rights to Tolo instead of RWilliams?

Coates instead of Faulkner? (assuming Coates plays overseas)

Lock up Larkins with a core instead of Gwathmey?

Draft Russell or Billings instead of DeShields?



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Michelle89



Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 16464
Location: Holland


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PostPosted: 09/15/17 4:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
yeah if you take out all the players that could be unrestricted free agents it gets a little rougher

Faulkner/A. Jones
Hartley/R. Williams/Whitcomb
B. Holmes/Stricklen
Hawkins/Plaisance/Burdick
Hanson/Cannon

(Technically any or all of Larkins, Vaughn, Swords, Paris, C. Little, R. Montgomery, J. Perkins could be UFA. The post goes from thin, to super thin with the vets removed.)


Who's going to score? This team is very, very easy to defend.

And there's no size.

It's completely understandable that existing teams want to protect their assets, and that bad teams want the high draft choices they've "earned", so it's unrealistic to expect the owners to decide that an expansion team should have access to good players or top draft picks.

Or let's put this another way: We know the Bay Area will get a team, and let's say it got this team for next summer. How would that work out for Bay Area fans, and what impression would they and the media get of the WNBA?


Right now the Fever are not much better talent wise..



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ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11102



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PostPosted: 09/15/17 7:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
yeah if you take out all the players that could be unrestricted free agents it gets a little rougher

Faulkner/A. Jones
Hartley/R. Williams/Whitcomb
B. Holmes/Stricklen
Hawkins/Plaisance/Burdick
Hanson/Cannon

(Technically any or all of Larkins, Vaughn, Swords, Paris, C. Little, R. Montgomery, J. Perkins could be UFA. The post goes from thin, to super thin with the vets removed.)


Who's going to score? This team is very, very easy to defend.

And there's no size.

It's completely understandable that existing teams want to protect their assets, and that bad teams want the high draft choices they've "earned", so it's unrealistic to expect the owners to decide that an expansion team should have access to good players or top draft picks.

Or let's put this another way: We know the Bay Area will get a team, and let's say it got this team for next summer. How would that work out for Bay Area fans, and what impression would they and the media get of the WNBA?


Right now the Fever are not much better talent wise..


So expansion would mean having two unwatchable teams?



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RavenDog



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 6863
Location: Home


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PostPosted: 09/17/17 11:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Expansion team would be investible and serviceable with the top 2 picks or 2 of the top 4 picks in the Draft. There would be interest in watching the new team play, grow and compete.

For a decent League Expansion, where available first team talent is of rare availability, all the teams must participate, contribute and offer decent talent for a successful expansion.

No way anything like this would/could happen but the newly formed expansion team needs a decent start for competition and viability, especially in a small league absent of dollars.

My favorite teams are the bottom 8 (currently not playing) and it would be detrimental to each of their current needs, but, for a "forced" expansion to 13 teams, I'd consider the aforementioned or a reasonable compensational version of it.


Michelle89



Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 16464
Location: Holland


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PostPosted: 09/17/17 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
yeah if you take out all the players that could be unrestricted free agents it gets a little rougher

Faulkner/A. Jones
Hartley/R. Williams/Whitcomb
B. Holmes/Stricklen
Hawkins/Plaisance/Burdick
Hanson/Cannon

(Technically any or all of Larkins, Vaughn, Swords, Paris, C. Little, R. Montgomery, J. Perkins could be UFA. The post goes from thin, to super thin with the vets removed.)


Who's going to score? This team is very, very easy to defend.

And there's no size.

It's completely understandable that existing teams want to protect their assets, and that bad teams want the high draft choices they've "earned", so it's unrealistic to expect the owners to decide that an expansion team should have access to good players or top draft picks.

Or let's put this another way: We know the Bay Area will get a team, and let's say it got this team for next summer. How would that work out for Bay Area fans, and what impression would they and the media get of the WNBA?


Right now the Fever are not much better talent wise..


So expansion would mean having two unwatchable teams?


Unwatchable for how long. The Fever always went to the playoffs because Catchings dragged them thereso they missed a lot of opportunities to get some new young talent. They need a new franchise player/star player. Same goes for that expansion team. Let them suck for a couple of years and get those 1st and 2nd picks and by then the Lynx are old and miss Whalen, Augustus and Brunson. The Sparks might be without Parker because she retired. The Mercury are without Taurasi. Storm without Bird etc.



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"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11102



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PostPosted: 09/18/17 9:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

But now L.A. and Seattle collapse and can't replace talent because the first round is now 14 teams deep.

A point I haven't mentioned enough is supply-and-demand for franchises themselves.

The reason professional sports teams can be a good investment is that the value of a franchise often increases -- sometimes dramatically -- over time. A yearly loss of $1 million is easily offset if the value of the franchise goes up $5 million.

Right now, WNBA franchises are essentially worth $0 dollars. Hopefully, at some point, they will be worth something, which would attract more investors, but if there are more franchises available, then the price lowers (supply and demand).

Wouldn't it be great if the Dream owners, say, decided to sell, and there were three groups bidding for the franchise? But if two teams are added, then those three (mythical) groups can each get their franchises for free.



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Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911



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PostPosted: 09/18/17 10:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
But now L.A. and Seattle collapse and can't replace talent because the first round is now 14 teams deep.


First - did you mean Minnesota instead of Seattle?

There will probably always be really good and really bad teams simply because owners/management and luck can vastly differ among teams. Luck is hard to over-estimate in importance. Had Tulsa won the draft lottery and gotten Maya Moore, while the Lynx got a No. 4 pick - there probably would be no Lynx dynasty. (Of course, you can't rule out Nolan Richardson trading Moore for Cambage and a bag of chips.) Had LA not won the Nneka lottery they probably don't win a title either. The Dream might have been in the lottery for years if not for winning the 2009 draft.


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