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Hilary blames everyone but herself
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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/06/17 2:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

#ClintonDerangementSyndrome



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/06/17 2:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hardly.

If she'd just STFU and go away, everyone would happily forget about her. She's the one who keeps giving speeches and writing books blaming everyone else but herself for her own horror of a campaign.

Bernie was trying to talk about DACA today and kept having to answer questions about Hillary's attacks on him. He (correctly) said he doesn't care about the past, he's focused on the present and future.

It's Hillary and her cult followers who are the deranged ones.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/07/17 7:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
#ClintonDerangementSyndrome




No end in sight.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/07/17 9:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
#ClintonDerangementSyndrome




No end in sight.


That seems unfortunately to be true. It's looking more and more like she is actually going to run again. Her ego is out of control.

And Trump rejoices.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/07/17 9:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How timely.

Politico runs an article today entitled "Democrats dread Hillary's book tour."

The lead sentence?

"President Donald Trump may be the only person in politics truly excited about Hillary Clinton’s book tour."

Guess it's not just "Hillary haters" who wish she'd just STFU.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/07/hillary-clinton-book-tour-democrats-242419


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PostPosted: 09/08/17 10:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu0myyLEQ8o



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 6:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote









cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 8:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The cool part is, there were plenty of reasons, including voter suppression engineered by Republicans, as they have done since at least 2000, and likely Trump Administration-assisted Russian cyber tampering, including social media bot stuff and possible voting machine tampering, and the media's incessant "her emails" angle while ignoring the Trump-Russia collusion, which was known by the likes of McConnell et al to be a probability since Aug '16, the media's refusal to call out Trump for being the pathological liar that he is, dwarfing any known politician in that regard, and, of course, the Comey Oct surprise, even though he knew there was NOTHING NEW in the emails.

And despite all that shit, she drew 3,000,000+ more votes than Trump.

Hillary is easy to dislike, as is Trump. The difference- hopefully obvious to more voters these nine months in- being, that Hillary is much more qualified for the position, while Trump isn't, at all.



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 09/09/17 4:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote









<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wic4KrQppBc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/11/17 11:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So Hillary is going to appear live on the Rachael Maddow show this Thursday. That should be something.

I'm sure the questioning will be rigorous. Sort of like Trump going on the Hannity show. Rolling Eyes


Howee



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PostPosted: 09/12/17 1:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I find it all so .... INTRIGUING (!) that all the Hilary Haterz just can't let go of her. Razz



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 09/12/17 2:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
I find it all so .... INTRIGUING (!) that all the Hilary Haterz just can't let go of her. Razz


It's funny how a person's thoughts and opinion on something is taken and re-molded and characterized according to the thoughts and opinions of a second person, or more commonly a group of persons, standing in opposition, and then presented, rather insistently, as being the actual unmasked definitive version of the thoughts and opinions of those who originally had them. With dark motivations thrown in just in case anyone's isn't so up on *our side's* dark motivations glossary to know instinctively which dark motive goes with which unacceptable opinion.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/12/17 7:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would appreciate if ArtBest or GlennMacgrady, or any other Hillary hater, could tell me what the Benghazi "scandal", the DNC email "scandal", the Hillary email "scandal", the Clinton Foundation "scandal", "travel-gate", and "no accomplishments", are, exactly.

Thanks in advance.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/12/17 9:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
I find it all so .... INTRIGUING (!) that all the Hilary Haterz just can't let go of her. Razz


So is it me who is writing books, going on speaking tours, and doing TV interviews, or is it Hillary who refuses simply to go away gracefully and insists on ceaselessly forcing herself into the public view and discourse.

I'd be thrilled never to hear from or about her ever again.

But to her cult members, she still can do no wrong.

Have you bought her book yet?


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PostPosted: 09/12/17 2:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote































mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/12/17 3:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Howee wrote:
I find it all so .... INTRIGUING (!) that all the Hilary Haterz just can't let go of her. Razz


So is it me who is writing books, going on speaking tours, and doing TV interviews, or is it Hillary who refuses simply to go away gracefully and insists on ceaselessly forcing herself into the public view and discourse.

I'd be thrilled never to hear from or about her ever again.

But to her cult members, she still can do no wrong.

Have you bought her book yet?


Yes. The first ever female candidate of a major political party, a person who gave her life to public service..should probably get back in the kitchen.

People are begging Mitt Romney, a two time failed presidential candidate, to run for the senate..yet they lose their mind when Hillary talks.

Hillary haters have something seriously wrong with them.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/12/17 3:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rational people want Romney to stay quiet, and he has. That a few people (mostly from the big money "anyone but Trump" camp) want him to run again doesn't mean he himself is interested nor is he constantly pushing his face in front of the cameras. He hasn't whined about his loss.

McCain went back to the Senate, and never whined about his loss or blamed anyone else.

Kerry was pushed by many to run again. But he endorsed Obama, and later served as Secretary of State. Never whined or blamed others.

Gore went back to his climate change crusade and never whined about his loss. If anyone had a right to bitch and moan about his screwjob loss, he did, but he had more class than that. He moved on.

Dole went quietly into the sunset. He never whined or blamed others.

George Bush Sr. went off with his wife into retirement with the utmost class, never blaming anyone or whining about his loss.

You see a pattern here?

I doubt Clinton's behavior has anything whatsoever to do with being female. It simply has to do with being a seriously flawed egotistical asshole who is incapable of ever accepting personal responsibility for anything.

But of course her cult followers have to latch on to lame "it's all because she's a women" bullshit excuse making, and whine about the "kitchen" even though absolutely no one else is suggesting any such thing. But then, they're just following the lead of the master of excuses.

She should just STFU and retire. Her lifetime of self aggrandizement has run its course.


https://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2017-09-12/ten-months-after-her-loss-its-the-same-hillary-clinton


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/12/17 8:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The real cultish people are the 30%ish Trump "core". They truly are dolts.

Compared to them, HRC folks are Einsteins. (In the same way that HRC, when compared to Trump, is George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and FDR combined.)



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/12/17 8:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm sure both cults believe they're Einsteins and the others are dolts.

I think any group marked by blind unreasoning obsequiousness, as both the Clinton and Trump lemmings are, falls into the latter category.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/12/17 9:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I doubt HRC folks believe the same type of nonsense though, since there really isn't the same type of nonsense in the first place.

For example, it's one thing to claim there is a Benghazi "scandal"and spend years pursuing several investigations, another to prove it.

Trump's nonsense- from outright lies re: 9/11 to biggest inauguration crowd ever to Frederick Douglas to "thanks for coming out" and "have a good time" at Hurricane disasters to the crooked University to Made-in-China products while MAGAing around the country, to nobody knew healthcare was so complicated to lying about colluding with Russians, to not paying contractors, to pardoning Arpaio, etc etc etc etc etc ad infinitum, is plain to see.



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/12/17 9:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
I doubt HRC folks believe the same type of nonsense though, since there really isn't the same type of nonsense in the first place.

For example, it's one thing to claim there is a Benghazi "scandal"and spend years pursuing several investigations, another to prove it.

Trump's nonsense- from outright lies re: 9/11 to biggest inauguration crowd ever to Frederick Douglas to "thanks for coming out" and "have a good time" at Hurricane disasters to the crooked University to Made-in-China products while MAGAing around the country, to nobody knew healthcare was so complicated to lying about colluding with Russians, to not paying contractors, to pardoning Arpaio, etc etc etc etc etc ad infinitum, is plain to see.


It's the people with ClintonDerangementSyndrom that show the same type of behaviors.

They can never prove their claims.

They give her more exposure than she would have gotten. (Look who started talking about Hillary's book, not Clinton supporters..)

Art hasn't read her book, and yet he's here criticizing. Why? Blind hatred.

And there's no reason for it. She's a politician. No different than any other politician. She's done some wonderful things. She's done some not so wonderful things. Difference is, she's criticized for mundane political activity.

She's literally the only Presidential Candidate who has apologized for losing. She's the only Presidential Candidate that people have insisted should keep quiet, and should take full responsibility for her loss..when clearly, it wasn't fully her fault, and any rational human can see that.

She's a historical figure, like it or not. (And history will be a lot kinder to her than current times.) She's got a lot to say. People can choose to listen or not. (She was right about EVERYTHING she said about Trump.) People can choose to listen or not (and clearly, judging by book sales..a lot of people want to listen).

It's the people that lose their mind every time she opens her mouth that seem ridiculous, and it becomes more and more evident that it isn't based in rationality the more they talk.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/12/17 11:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks for proving my point. Overwhelmingly proving my point.

She a legend in her own mind. That's all she is.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/13/17 8:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not much difference between the Trump cult and the Clinton hater cult, imo.

Both tribes go out of their way, it seems, to believe incredible bullshit and shun reality.

The hatred is so bizarre that these folks continue to bust Clinton's ass, long after she's a "threat" to them, more than Trump's, even as he proves his incompetence, pathological lying and psychopathic nature over and over. But, "at least he's not her", I guess is their bottom line.

Clinton wasn't my preferred choice, but shit, it was clear she was the better one. I wonder how many Trumpists knew that, but voted for Trump anyway.



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Jet Jaguar



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PostPosted: 09/13/17 5:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Not much difference between the Trump cult and the Clinton hater cult, imo.

Both tribes go out of their way, it seems, to believe incredible bullshit and shun reality.

The hatred is so bizarre that these folks continue to bust Clinton's ass, long after she's a "threat" to them, more than Trump's, even as he proves his incompetence, pathological lying and psychopathic nature over and over. But, "at least he's not her", I guess is their bottom line.

Pot meet kettle. All you Trump haters make up stuff about Trump on a daily basis that isn't true. You guys live in an alternative reality where Trump and Putin are in cahoots, despite no evidence of it. And he's racist, with a Jewish son-in-law and a black housing secretary in his cabinet. And he's sexist with a woman campaign manager, a woman press secretary, and now a woman White house communications director, among others. Your hatred of him is so unhinged it's ridiculous.



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/13/17 8:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jet Jaguar wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Not much difference between the Trump cult and the Clinton hater cult, imo.

Both tribes go out of their way, it seems, to believe incredible bullshit and shun reality.

The hatred is so bizarre that these folks continue to bust Clinton's ass, long after she's a "threat" to them, more than Trump's, even as he proves his incompetence, pathological lying and psychopathic nature over and over. But, "at least he's not her", I guess is their bottom line.

Pot meet kettle.

All you Trump haters make up stuff about Trump on a daily basis that isn't true.

THAT isn't true.

You guys live in an alternative reality where Trump and Putin are in cahoots, despite no evidence of it.

What do you want, an exchange of emails? Be patient. Mueller's team is working on it.

And he's racist, with a Jewish son-in-law and a black housing secretary in his cabinet.

Proving what, exactly?

And he's sexist with a woman campaign manager, a woman press secretary, and now a woman White house communications director, among others.

Sexist men marry women and hire women.

Your hatred of him is so unhinged it's ridiculous.

Actually, it's well-founded, but thanks for leaving your Alex Jones bizarro world to check in. Glad you're ok.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 6:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Howee wrote:
I find it all so .... INTRIGUING (!) that all the Hilary Haterz just can't let go of her. Razz


So is it me who is writing books, going on speaking tours, and doing TV interviews, or is it Hillary who refuses simply to go away gracefully and insists on ceaselessly forcing herself into the public view and discourse.

I'd be thrilled never to hear from or about her ever again.


"Never"? Then why do you start threads/keep posting about her?

You may not be writing her books, but....Hilary's not posting threads about herself HERE, either. Rolling Eyes



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 09/15/17 4:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Howee wrote:
I find it all so .... INTRIGUING (!) that all the Hilary Haterz just can't let go of her. Razz


So is it me who is writing books, going on speaking tours, and doing TV interviews, or is it Hillary who refuses simply to go away gracefully and insists on ceaselessly forcing herself into the public view and discourse.

I'd be thrilled never to hear from or about her ever again.


Glad to find something we can agree on. I haven't so far because I didn't want to do the paperwork and heavy lifting to prove that I'm not one of the Hilary Haterz. Rolling Eyes To then have someone or a group REJECT my paperwork and declare that yes I am so and also I'm a misogynist, Republican, or whatever.

Hillary Clinton is doing a damn good job of making it seem that SHE actually might have been the poorer choice. And God, can you imagine how hard that would be to pull off when the other candidate was Donald Trump? But she's close. Since the election she has presented and allowed herself to be presented to the public as the image of a person who has lost her own ability to conduct herself in a stateswoman-like manner. She has seemed noticeably off to me since election night. She's looking to me now like a person who, in the final analysis, wasn't able to stand up to the job of being presidential, let alone president. Trump hasn't either but Trump is sitting on the throne for three more years. His story-line is far from over.

Most every past president in my memory and most of the major party nominees have been able to assume that mantle of top level executive composure and a statesman-like aura. Not Hillary. Psychologically, she's toast, and anyone and everyone can see that. She really does need to excuse herself from public life and get out of people's heads and off their minds. Too much is happening and we all have to move forward together without this, I'm sorry, two-time loser hanging over us with HER thoughts and HER feelings. Go away already.

Great example is her coming forward to criticize in interviews Bernie Sanders exactly at the precise historical moment when he and Elizabeth Warren and Kamila Harris are floating a precedent busting piece of legislation to extend Medicare to all, etc. The long long dreamed of (on the left) single payer option. How dare her rear up and spout off about Sanders not paying her enough respect NOW... when he's opening a door and a conversation that is so long overdue in this country.

She's just a little crazy. Is all I'm saying. Cool


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PostPosted: 09/15/17 10:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Howee wrote:
I find it all so .... INTRIGUING (!) that all the Hilary Haterz just can't let go of her. Razz


So is it me who is writing books, going on speaking tours, and doing TV interviews, or is it Hillary who refuses simply to go away gracefully and insists on ceaselessly forcing herself into the public view and discourse.

I'd be thrilled never to hear from or about her ever again.


Glad to find something we can agree on. I haven't so far because I didn't want to do the paperwork and heavy lifting to prove that I'm not one of the Hilary Haterz. Rolling Eyes To then have someone or a group REJECT my paperwork and declare that yes I am so and also I'm a misogynist, Republican, or whatever.

Hillary Clinton is doing a damn good job of making it seem that SHE actually might have been the poorer choice. And God, can you imagine how hard that would be to pull off when the other candidate was Donald Trump? But she's close. Since the election she has presented and allowed herself to be presented to the public as the image of a person who has lost her own ability to conduct herself in a stateswoman-like manner. She has seemed noticeably off to me since election night. She's looking to me now like a person who, in the final analysis, wasn't able to stand up to the job of being presidential, let alone president. Trump hasn't either but Trump is sitting on the throne for three more years. His story-line is far from over.

Most every past president in my memory and most of the major party nominees have been able to assume that mantle of top level executive composure and a statesman-like aura. Not Hillary. Psychologically, she's toast, and anyone and everyone can see that. She really does need to excuse herself from public life and get out of people's heads and off their minds. Too much is happening and we all have to move forward together without this, I'm sorry, two-time loser hanging over us with HER thoughts and HER feelings. Go away already.

Great example is her coming forward to criticize in interviews Bernie Sanders exactly at the precise historical moment when he and Elizabeth Warren and Kamila Harris are floating a precedent busting piece of legislation to extend Medicare to all, etc. The long long dreamed of (on the left) single payer option. How dare her rear up and spout off about Sanders not paying her enough respect NOW... when he's opening a door and a conversation that is so long overdue in this country.

She's just a little crazy. Is all I'm saying. Cool


Yup, and then when she speaks on matters of political import here, and around the globe, one realizes she is so much more informed, intelligent, and qualified than the moron, who most voters didn't support, in the oval office. Smile



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 09/15/17 10:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

She's hardly unique in having that over Trump. lol.


mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/15/17 1:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The sexism..Jesus.



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PostPosted: 09/15/17 9:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
The sexism..Jesus.


I know. Was it the use of the word HER that gave me away?


mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/15/17 9:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
The sexism..Jesus.


I know. Was it the use of the word HER that gave me away?


No, it's the "she seems crazy" when she shows a little bit of anger and strong (legitimate) criticism, when you've been singing the praises of over exaggerating screaming finger wavers for a year now.

Honestly, a little self reflection would be nice. I'm really disappointed with you.

The thing with this election..I can honestly forgive people less educated in politics for their beliefs in politics given the media...but talking to people who should know better is what grosses me out.



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PostPosted: 09/15/17 11:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I want to be free to talk about things honestly, as I truly see them, without worrying whether I'm tripping a wire that is connected to something else completely outside of my own thinking or motivations. This is a perfect example of that and how simply giving an opinion on something can have people stepping forward to accuse you of something like sexism. I was certainly expecting that any criticism of Hillary would likely be met with charges of some sort along these lines. But what happens when my honest opinion, in this case that losing the presidency a second time has driven Hillary over the edge, is simply like it or not (i don't) going to trip feminist watchdog sensitivities due to the fact that my observations include the honest opinion of her being someone nuts now and over the edge? Which are what? Dog whistles? Well, uh... what if she's actually gone nuts to some degree?

Do you understand at least how your summing up all these things against someone voicing an opinion, trip wires like 'she's crazy' your apparent score keeping on what crazy people I've been touting and which ones I've been scorning, etc. how expectations of all this were already in my head before I posted my opinion? It had already stopped me from sharing that opinion sooner. The knowledge that people will catagorize my opinions and condemn them, the knowledge that this is what awaits me for just sharing an honest opinion here has preempted me from posting opinions on this and so many other topics for months now. That's why I don't post here much anymore. This has very much ceased to be a place where we accepted and debated each other and it has become a place where people are using tactics that have become ever more en vogue in political discourse as it exists outside such a small closed community as we are. If you don't like what someone is saying, find the catagory of deplorable asshole that most applies and stick it to that person.

I can't stop you from being disappointed in me. It's duly noted. But you should be concerned about being so predictable.


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PostPosted: 09/16/17 12:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote



Anyone who doesn't know these terms are all "sexist" "dog whistles" is out of touch, polarizing, calculating, disingenuous, entitled, insincere, tone deaf, and represents the past.

And those sexists include not only the privileged white males on this forum, but the majority of white women, the majority of married women, in fact the majority of just about all women except black women -- all of whom voted against Hillary in favor of Trump. Except the black women voted en masse against her and in favor of Obama in 2008, so all of them were rampant sexists just a few years ago too.

Labeling people who engage is the hostile act of such flagrant hate speech is so, so, so very much easier than labeling a foul in the WNBA. It doesn't ever require an impartial replay . . . or even a clear initial view.
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PostPosted: 09/16/17 7:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Or maybe Jammer, your actual opinion is sexist. Not some code name trigger, but the actual whole opinion.

Freedom to talk about things is a positive, because you can learn why your thinking is problematic. Maybe instead of sticking to your Sanders/Trump narrative, despite all empirical evidence to the contrary, you listen to the criticisms of what you are saying?

It's just disappointing. I don't really expect better from Art or Glenn, but I did from you. There is plenty of legitimate criticism of Clinton that isn't sexist. An inability to convey her policy ideas to the public is a huge one, for example.

Telling the first ever woman nominee to shut up and go away is sexist. Suggesting that her side of the story (again, backed by actual research) is unimportant is sexist. Suggesting that her new found bluntness suggests she's unhinged or crazy is sexist.

ESPECIALLY when the political standards for men are so blatantly different.

Her book tour is is sold out, and her book is selling crazy well with overtly positive reviews. Clearly, a lot of people want to hear her voice, and her story is important for the future.



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PostPosted: 09/16/17 10:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That more white women and white men for voted Trump than Clinton is the basis of my tag line, obviously. They're either an idiot, sucker, sexist, white nationalist, white supremacist, racist, religious wingnut, knee-jerk authoritarian, traitor, multi-millionaire, billionaire, prick, cvnt, or some combination therein.

That Clinton "doesn't go away, like all respectable male losers before her", and catches an amazing amount of shit for it, is inherently sexist. 3,000,000 more people voted for her than the douche in the WH. Think about that. She got more votes for POTUS than any white male ever. Only Obama got more votes for the office. She's a woman. Women are different. Remember, guys? Women like/NEED to talk about shit more than we do. Mars/Venus in action. Wink

My guess is sexist attitudes, like racists one, are rarely self-identified.

Again, I state here that I don't find her personally appealing. She seems like a boring, lousy sense-of-humor woman, the kind who will exact revenge 3 years later for the affair you had that she supposedly forgave you for. Laughing

That said, away from the cameras and the stump, she's said to be warm and funny. It's too bad (for her) that that part of her personality doesn't come across well.

THAT said, she was clearly the only legit choice in 2016.

How's that drain the swamp thing going? This was the biggest bunch of bs in the history of politics in my lifetime. Voting in the guy who admits to buying politicians in order to clean up corruption in D.C. is probably the dumbest idea in voter history.

The only major legislation passed to date was written in order to prevent Trump from easing sanctions on Russia.

"So much winning, so much winning. Believe me, your head will spin".

Laughing



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PostPosted: 09/16/17 11:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not telling someone to do something you believe they should do because they were the first woman etc.? No wait. NOT telling one of the most powerful and influential political figures of our era, from a family that has dominated MY political party, not to mention my own political perspective AND loyalties, for almost two decades, what I believe to be true? Sparing her. Shutting down my own voice? And what does it even mean to hold back honest harsh criticisms from someone BECAUSE they are a woman?

HRC has been much more than a woman to me, long before she was ever anything to you, mercfan3. You want to reduce her to the first major party candidate who was a woman. But this is a person I devoted my political loyalties to for decades. I am proud that she is a woman. But her shortcomings were ultimalty her undoing and her time is past. To you, on the other hand, HRC, the first woman, etc. is a hugely symbolic figure and as such is someone who you feel you must defend on that basis.

To me, Hillary is a Democrat who let down two generations of poor, working, and middle class Americans by failing to hold fast to a politics that above all championed their needs and well being. She let herself be outdone in terms of simply telling it like it is by so many in her own party that she fell hopelessly behind them in what was emanating from her incredibly large and powerful voice.

And, as a leader of our party, she sold herself out to the whims and fancies of the most high elites on the face of the earth, which made her a deplorably bad representative of the classes of Americans who once counted on the Democratic Party for their only political representation, ceding all that to a demagogue like Trump.

Her failures, which in my opinion are ongoing, are too great not to have them shouted to the world and in great detail. But there's no time for that now. She invites it, however, by showing her face and writing a book. She had two years prior to this moment to stand up and add her voice to the truth about what has happened in American politics. She couldn't do that because she is representative of what has happened in American politics. She's a poster child for big-donor paid-for political representation! She ultimately had absolutely no standing with such a large swath of the American people and RIGHTLY SO! The people were dead right. They had her number.

Now you're going to say she beat Trump by 3M votes. Really? This was Donald Trump she was running against! He proved over and over again through two solid years that he wasn't a serious political leader worthy of the highest office in the land. So many of the votes she DID get were simply because Trump was repulsive to so many Americans. She should have swept him away like the political crumb that he was. But she couldn't do that because she'd long ago chosen NOT to actually represent the people of this country who most needed her representation.

And at a moment when a conversation has been opened to proffer even the notion of single payer healthcare in this country, something SO long overdue, Hillary Rodham Clinton rises from the ashes of her defeat to attack the senator whose name is attached to that effort simply because he didn't show her the proper respect? IMO he'd actually gone EASY on her! Which is exactly what you're asking people to do now, mercfan13.


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PostPosted: 09/16/17 1:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

if only Hillary would stfu, we'd get single-payer healthcare. DAMN her.



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/16/17 4:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:


That said, away from the cameras and the stump, she's said to be warm and funny. It's too bad (for her) that that part of her personality doesn't come across well.



Colbert has said that before. She's just an introvert. It kills me a little that America continues to reject policy wonks in favor of idiots you want to have a beer with. It was Gore vs. Bush all over again. (Except worse because Donald Trump makes me miss G.W. in ways I never thought possible.)



Honestly, that should have been the biggest clue that Clinton was likely to lose. Since Bill, "biggest personality" has won the Presidency.



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Last edited by mercfan3 on 09/16/17 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/16/17 4:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Not telling someone to do something you believe they should do because they were the first woman etc.? No wait. NOT telling one of the most powerful and influential political figures of our era, from a family that has dominated MY political party, not to mention my own political perspective AND loyalties, for almost two decades, what I believe to be true? Sparing her. Shutting down my own voice? And what does it even mean to hold back honest harsh criticisms from someone BECAUSE they are a woman?


There are non sexist criticisms.
Hillary's story matters. It matters for our future.

jammerbirdi wrote:

HRC has been much more than a woman to me, long before she was ever anything to you, mercfan3. You want to reduce her to the first major party candidate who was a woman. But this is a person I devoted my political loyalties to for decades. I am proud that she is a woman. But her shortcomings were ultimalty her undoing and her time is past. To you, on the other hand, HRC, the first woman, etc. is a hugely symbolic figure and as such is someone who you feel you must defend on that basis.


You have no idea what Bill and Hillary Clinton mean to me as political figures.

Hillary Clinton is not just a woman candidate to me. Although, that certainly matters to me, and it is fine that it does.

I know you like that narrative about her shortcomings, because it supports your thoughts on both Sanders and Trump, but at this point..enough empirical evidence has come forward that suggests this is a false narrative.

jammerbirdi wrote:

To me, Hillary is a Democrat who let down two generations of poor, working, and middle class Americans by failing to hold fast to a politics that above all championed their needs and well being. She let herself be outdone in terms of simply telling it like it is by so many in her own party that she fell hopelessly behind them in what was emanating from her incredibly large and powerful voice.

And, as a leader of our party, she sold herself out to the whims and fancies of the most high elites on the face of the earth, which made her a deplorably bad representative of the classes of Americans who once counted on the Democratic Party for their only political representation, ceding all that to a demagogue like Trump.


1. She won working class Americans.
2. She won white working class Americans whose biggest priority was the economy.
3. Working Class White Americans in the mid west aren't coming back. They're republicans. They've voted Republican since a Democrat signed the Civil Rights Act.

Citizen's United put politicians in a difficult spot. At her core, Clinton is pragmatic. You can't win an election without corporate money. You just can't. And the only way we change that is by getting in power.

See, Jammer..notice I didn't call this criticism sexist. because it's not. It's the root of the Democratic party argument in the primaries. Idealism vs. Pragmatism. You're criticism is dead wrong, because again..you can't change anything if you don't have a seat at the table..but..not a sexist critique. (Unless of course, you'll be totes cool with all the men taking corporate money, just not Hillz. Then it is. Razz )

jammerbirdi wrote:

Her failures, which in my opinion are ongoing, are too great not to have them shouted to the world and in great detail. But there's no time for that now. She invites it, however, by showing her face and writing a book. She had two years prior to this moment to stand up and add her voice to the truth about what has happened in American politics. She couldn't do that because she is representative of what has happened in American politics. She's a poster child for big-donor paid-for political representation! She ultimately had absolutely no standing with such a large swath of the American people and RIGHTLY SO! The people were dead right. They had her number.


Again, pragmatism won with her.

However, people like to forget that she was the losing party to Citizens United. She doesn't believe this should be happening. (Whether it's because she doesn't think corporations should influence elections or because she knows corporations will side with Republicans is a fair question though.)

The inability to see reality here, from some members of the left, is going to hurt the party. Personally, I will flat out refuse to vote for any Democrat in the primary who refuses to take corporate money. Because I'm pragmatic, and I understand the way this game works.

jammerbirdi wrote:

Now you're going to say she beat Trump by 3M votes. Really? This was Donald Trump she was running against! He proved over and over again through two solid years that he wasn't a serious political leader worthy of the highest office in the land. So many of the votes she DID get were simply because Trump was repulsive to so many Americans. She should have swept him away like the political crumb that he was. But she couldn't do that because she'd long ago chosen NOT to actually represent the people of this country who most needed her representation.


Why don't you read her book where she discusses many of the reason for "What Happened?" all of which is supported by data. Razz

Again, this is a weird ass view of what actually happened during the election.

jammerbirdi wrote:

And at a moment when a conversation has been opened to proffer even the notion of single payer healthcare in this country, something SO long overdue, Hillary Rodham Clinton rises from the ashes of her defeat to attack the senator whose name is attached to that effort simply because he didn't show her the proper respect? IMO he'd actually gone EASY on her! Which is exactly what you're asking people to do now, mercfan3.


No, she's being far too kind to Sanders. And her criticism was spot the fuck on.

Shouting about Single Payer is nice, but it would be nicer to come up with a legitimate plan. Universal Health Care is a Democratic platform. A conversation that HILLARY CLINTON came up with in the 90s.

Sanders bullshit is just going to hurt Single Payer. Politics is not just about "what should be." We can all talk about what should be. We have to talk about "what can be" or you end up "killing what should be."



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PostPosted: 09/16/17 6:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder if she regrets taking that Secretary of State job (maybe she addresses that in her book), which I assume was to give her more experience for a 2nd run at the presidency. Besides that position being the source of controversy, she would now be a 3-term senator from New York considering whether to run in 2018, had she not taken it.


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/16/17 6:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
I wonder if she regrets taking that Secretary of State job (maybe she addresses that in her book), which I assume was to give her more experience for a 2nd run at the presidency. Besides that position being the source of controversy, she would now be a 3-term senator from New York considering whether to run in 2018, had she not taken it.


It seems unlikely it would have mattered. Experience isn't what lost her the election.



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PostPosted: 09/16/17 7:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
I wonder if she regrets taking that Secretary of State job (maybe she addresses that in her book), which I assume was to give her more experience for a 2nd run at the presidency. Besides that position being the source of controversy, she would now be a 3-term senator from New York considering whether to run in 2018, had she not taken it.


Only three of 45 presidents have been a senator immediately before taking the office of president: Harding, Kennedy and Obama. So, it's not the best job platform.

Hillary may have been able to buck this or any other job platform trend since her two most prominent electability factors never had anything to do with her personal job qualifications: being a woman, and being Governor/President Bill Clinton's "First Lady" for 20 years.

Hillary could hold no job from 2012 to 2020 and her cult would still vote for her for president in 2020, which is what a lot of people expect she'll do -- entitled and power hungry narcissist that she is.
tfan



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PostPosted: 09/16/17 8:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:


Only three of 45 presidents have been a senator immediately before taking the office of president: Harding, Kennedy and Obama. So, it's not the best job platform.


How many have been Secretary of State most recently?

But I was talking about having a fall back position in case the campaign for president failed, not about whether she took the right path to be elected president.


mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/16/17 8:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I doubt she'd take back her SOS position.

However, my feeling was always that she loved being a senator. In terms of what she's good at, that was probably her best position.



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PostPosted: 09/16/17 9:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A lot of Dems have said recently they wish Hillary would shut up and go away, including Bill Maher, a NY News columnist and a poll, but I'm not going to link them because I'm tired of the polarizing subject and would prefer to link myself.

I'm proud to have been on the "go away train", on a bipartisan and bisexual basis, early in the primary season, when I wrote here on October 26, 2015:

Quote:
I'll repeat my fondest political wish: that everyone named Bush and Clinton would just go, go, go away. Far away. 35 years of Bushes and 23 years of Clintons is simply too much.
mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/16/17 10:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Liberal men have shown themselves to be sexist as well.

And also Glenn, that's not what Bisexual means.



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PostPosted: 09/16/17 11:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
And also Glenn, that's not what Bisexual means.


Mercfan, I consider "bisexual" to be bisemous if not polysemous. I don't know if you agree, since we agree only biannually.
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PostPosted: 09/17/17 8:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If you think the reason Clinton received "only" 3,000,000 more votes than the IgnoraNus is because "people don't like her" (whatever their reason), you haven't been paying attention.

Deliberate voter suppression by members of the Republican Party, as well as Russia-based "social media hacking", and possible Russia-based voting machine hacking, as well as a MSM media coverage that disproportionately focused on "her emails" while dismissing "his lies", tilted the game in Chump's favor.

Despite all that crap, Clinton beat him by millions.

The litmus test for Clinton Derange Syndrome, imo, is if you're ok with Russia tampering and systematic voter suppression by one of the major U.S. political parties, because it kept Clinton out of the White House, you for damn sure suffer the affliction.



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PostPosted: 09/17/17 9:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:

How many have been Secretary of State most recently? .



Recently? Can you say Z-E-R-O?

Last person to serve as Sec of State at any time prior to being elected President was, I believe, Martin Van Buren some 175 years ago.

It's a consolation prize, not a path to the White House.


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