| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| What is your marital status? |
| Never married |
|
51% |
[ 35 ] |
| Married - traditional |
|
25% |
[ 17 ] |
| Married - same sex |
|
17% |
[ 12 ] |
| Divorced |
|
4% |
[ 3 ] |
| Widowed |
|
1% |
[ 1 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 68 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15730
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
|
fancy_daniel
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 4489
Location: Los Angeles
Back to top |
 Posted: 09/04/17 1:27 am ::: |
Reply  |
|
| CourtsideTix wrote: |
| Glenn is not the victim here. He had a perfectly good alternative but instead he chose language that is widely and commonly used to specifically demean and oppose same-sex marriage as some sort of destructive, fraudulent other. As a gay person, I find that offensive. If others don't, I really don't care. |
I'm so sick and tired of people being offended over the tiniest things.
As a gay, LATINO man, I was not once offended, nor did it matter. It was an OKAY choice of words by my estimation and there was nothing wrong with it.
Have the religious right used the word traditional. YES! Am I wasting, my time worrying about it, NO! Am I worried that because Glenn used the word traditional, somehow my marriage is fraudulent and served to be destructive to the legality of my marriage? Hell No!
I have been out there in the real world and NO ONE has time to deal with the constant redefinition of how something should be labeled. I'm busy trying to make a living instead of getting off looking to get offended at every freakin' opportunity because someone used a word some yahoo deemed was no longer acceptable a few years ago.
The people I knew in the 90's who were fighting for same-sex marriage didn't give a crap about these labels. They just cared about it being an actual, legal marriage with all the state and federal rights that came with it. That is what I have, a legally recognized marriage that those that came before me fought for.
I'm getting so EFFEN tired of my fellow gay and people of color getting offended for the most ridiculous things. Get some tough skin and live in the real world and face the real things that are going on in life. Stop finding offense in anything you could possibly find, including all the relabeling of everything around us.
Last edited by fancy_daniel on 09/04/17 2:18 am; edited 6 times in total |
|
fancy_daniel
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 4489
Location: Los Angeles
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/04/17 1:31 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| mercfan3 wrote: |
For me, I understand that "traditional marriage" is generally an offensive term. The idea being that "traditional" essentially means "normal" and so you have "normal marriage" and "gay marriage." As if one is still superior to the other.
And my first inclination was to be annoyed at Glenn's usage.
However, I've thought about it. And truly, in this case, Glenn likely had no idea. Just look at the thread about Diana and Penny getting marriage, Glenn doesn't have a clue about any of the political or social aspects of the gay community.
I hope he takes this as an opportunity to understand why people might have a problem with his terms, but I'd also say that the rest of us should give him a break because he likely honestly didn't know. |
I agree with you that people need to cut Glenn some slack. But does he need to understand why people might have problems with those terms. NO!
I think there is nothing wrong with using the word traditional. Clearly, those people who were in opposite sex relationships didn't want to be considered traditional because, at least from the people on this board, it does not imbue any sense of inferiority.
I don't think he needs to take any opportunity to understand anything. He was simply using a word as many people would.
Does he have to cater to every single person's feelings? NO!
Quite frankly, I look at my relationship and as someone mentioned, it is probably more traditional than most straight relationships, or at least those of the people on this board.
Glenn did nothing wrong and people, as I mentioned, are getting their panties in a lather for nothing.
|
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21045
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/04/17 3:51 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| fancy_daniel wrote: |
| CourtsideTix wrote: |
| Glenn is not the victim here. He had a perfectly good alternative but instead he chose language that is widely and commonly used to specifically demean and oppose same-sex marriage as some sort of destructive, fraudulent other. As a gay person, I find that offensive. If others don't, I really don't care. |
I'm so sick and tired of people being offended over the tiniest things.
As a gay, LATINO man, I was not once offended, nor did it matter. It was an OKAY choice of words by my estimation and there was nothing wrong with it.
Have the religious right used the word traditional. YES! Am I wasting, my time worrying about it, NO! Am I worried that because Glenn used the word traditional, somehow my marriage is fraudulent and served to be destructive to the legality of my marriage? Hell No!
I have been out there in the real world and NO ONE has time to deal with the constant redefinition of how something should be labeled. I'm busy trying to make a living instead of getting off looking to get offended at every freakin' opportunity because someone used a word some yahoo deemed was no longer acceptable a few years ago.
The people I knew in the 90's who were fighting for same-sex marriage didn't give a crap about these labels. They just cared about it being an actual, legal marriage with all the state and federal rights that came with it. That is what I have, a legally recognized marriage that those that came before me fought for.
I'm getting so EFFEN tired of my fellow gay and people of color getting offended for the most ridiculous things. Get some tough skin and live in the real world and face the real things that are going on in life. Stop finding offense in anything you could possibly find, including all the relabeling of everything around us. |
You're an effeminancy hero.  What?!? (I have no idea.  )
|
|
stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 6916
Location: https://womensbasketballdaily.net
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/04/17 11:13 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| fancy_daniel wrote: |
| CourtsideTix wrote: |
| Glenn is not the victim here. He had a perfectly good alternative but instead he chose language that is widely and commonly used to specifically demean and oppose same-sex marriage as some sort of destructive, fraudulent other. As a gay person, I find that offensive. If others don't, I really don't care. |
I'm so sick and tired of people being offended over the tiniest things.
As a gay, LATINO man, I was not once offended, nor did it matter. It was an OKAY choice of words by my estimation and there was nothing wrong with it.
Have the religious right used the word traditional. YES! Am I wasting, my time worrying about it, NO! Am I worried that because Glenn used the word traditional, somehow my marriage is fraudulent and served to be destructive to the legality of my marriage? Hell No!
I have been out there in the real world and NO ONE has time to deal with the constant redefinition of how something should be labeled. I'm busy trying to make a living instead of getting off looking to get offended at every freakin' opportunity because someone used a word some yahoo deemed was no longer acceptable a few years ago.
The people I knew in the 90's who were fighting for same-sex marriage didn't give a crap about these labels. They just cared about it being an actual, legal marriage with all the state and federal rights that came with it. That is what I have, a legally recognized marriage that those that came before me fought for.
I'm getting so EFFEN tired of my fellow gay and people of color getting offended for the most ridiculous things. Get some tough skin and live in the real world and face the real things that are going on in life. Stop finding offense in anything you could possibly find, including all the relabeling of everything around us. |
 |
|
PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 1361
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/04/17 8:57 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Not to attack you, Glenn, but, the debate about labels notwithstanding, I have to say I am kind of unsettled by this poll in the first place. Is it just for fun or are you trying to find some sort of relevancy here? If so, what purpose would this knowledge serve you?
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/05/17 8:19 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| Not to attack you, Glenn, but, the debate about labels notwithstanding, I have to say I am kind of unsettled by this poll in the first place. Is it just for fun or are you trying to find some sort of relevancy here? If so, what purpose would this knowledge serve you? |
My first reaction was a somewhat similar "why", but after about two seconds I realized if you don't like the question or care to share the info, then just don't answer. Nobody's making anyone participate in this poll. (Which of course likely skews the results beyond any meaning since the pool of responders is self-selected.)
The discussion of sensitivity to termonology has been interesting to read though.
|
|
Jet Jaguar
Joined: 11 Feb 2014
Posts: 1111
Back to top |
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8225
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/06/17 11:35 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Wow. I just came back to this thread and am flabbergasted at the discussion.
| mercfan3 wrote: |
And truly, in this case, Glenn likely had no idea. Just look at the thread about Diana and Penny getting marriage, Glenn doesn't have a clue about any of the political or social aspects of the gay community.
I hope he takes this as an opportunity to understand why people might have a problem with his terms, but I'd also say that the rest of us should give him a break because he likely honestly didn't know. |
Thank you, mercfan, and to the others in this thread who have cut me this slack.
I consider myself to be quite proficient with vocabulary, syntax, semantics, etymology and lexicography, having had a lifetime career as a writer of various kinds, and I also consider myself to be politically informed. But no -- believe it or not -- I had no idea that "traditional marriage" was an offensive term. I am positive it is used frequently, as a neutral term, in the mainstream media and in legal writing.
I would not have used the term had I thought it offensive. Why would I? I immediately agreed that Queenie's suggestion of "opposite sex" was clearer and more symmetrical, so I adopted her terminology within 30 minutes of posting this thread. (The poll choices could not be literally changed.)
I admit there are probably many words and phrases in today's culture that have connotations to various groups of which I am unaware. I suspect we're all in that boat, except in different seats. I've often read things on this site that would be highly offensive to various cultural, political and religious groups.
As to the poll, it simply is one of several I've done and intend to do to tell us more about who we are, demographically, on this forum. I, personally, am going to do nothing with the information other than to generate it for the benefit of any member here who is interested.
Every poll can be criticized for over- or under-inclusiveness or for wording.
To respond to some ancillary questions. I separated same-sex and opposite-sex marriage simply to let people get a sense of their relative frequencies among members of this forum, now that same sex marriage is universally legal (and the debate is over) in the U.S.A.
I chose not to equate long-term relationships (of any sexuality) to marriage for the simple reason that they are not, in my opinion, relationships of the same status. Legally, socially, psychologically, commitment-wise and religiously, non-marriage is different from marriage. In this particular poll, I was interested getting responses from those who have made the legal marriage commitment, whether they be same sex or opposite sex marriages.
I plan on having future demographic polls on frequently public-polled subjects, but which have been the subject of political sensitivity. Perhaps someone would volunteer to be a wording editor -- seriously -- as I don't want unnecessary heat to obscure informational light.
I have little truck with pandering to the extreme language sensitivities of so-called special snowflakes, but again seriously, I would always choose an inoffensive term of equal denotative meaning over one that has any offensive connotation.
Traditions change. Marriage has changed. I, with increasing difficulty, can change. All things considered, "traditional marriage" is no longer a phrase that has any special utility . . . now that I think about it. |
|
|
|
