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CA girls basketball participation down; others up

 
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ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 08/01/17 1:33 pm    ::: CA girls basketball participation down; others up Reply Reply with quote

These are the California numbers over the last ten years, and of all sports with more than 500 participants, basketball is the only one that has declined.

Girls’ basketball participation 2007: 34,991
Girls’ basketball participation 2017: 34,222

-769 (-2.2%)

Girls’ volleyball participation 2007: 36,499
Girls’ basketball participation 2017: 44,526

8027 (+22%)

Girls’ soccer participation 2007: 40,985
Girls’ basketball participation 20017: 47,139

6154 (+15%)

Thoughts on why, and what can be done?



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calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 08/01/17 2:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I believe that the increase in soccer is certainly helped by the continued demographic changes and I don't think it really impacts basketball. Volleyball is more interesting. Here in Nevada I have noticed more interest in the sport and have been told anecdotally that there are better opportunities for college scholarships. This may be skewed toward middle class individuals. I also think that this may be a bit of a reversion to previous numbers. I suspect, without any real knowledge, that there was a greater difference between volleyball and basketball going back to 1997 and before.

Given the overall population increase the drop in basketball participation could be somewhat troubling, but I wonder whether this is because of funding, other sports alternatives, or actual cultural changes.


Slim3



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PostPosted: 08/01/17 3:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

also I would think that skills set plays a factor too. basketball requires a lot of skill (dribbling, footwork, shooting, etc) where as volleyball skill set is narrowed. I say that because in my involvement in college and high school athletics, I have seen great volleyball players who suck at basketball because the vasts skills that are required to be good.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 08/01/17 5:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting data set. I'd love to see it for other states/regions....we all know CA is its own universe. Wink

At the risk of sounding sexist, I still think there's the femininity factor; the Total Set of girls that LIKE athletic activity (running, conditioning, jumping, etc.) is going to have a smaller-percentage subset of individuals who LIKE the contact aspect of basketball: it's certainly far more intense than volleyball, and I'd say more grueling than even soccer. This is in contrast to the same male set of total athletes.

If one factors in the Pro Sports Visibility component, one would think basketball might hold an advantage over the other sports. Also, with beach volleyball being hugely popular in California, I can see California Girls favoring that sport over hoops. Re: soccer....might the higher concentration of Hispanics (who revere soccer more than the average American) be a factor there?

Nothing 'provable', just my opinion.



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StevenHW



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: 08/01/17 7:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is this only for high schools, or are you including youth leagues and/or colleges too?



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LitePal



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PostPosted: 08/01/17 7:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You have girls basketball listed four times but we get it. What is surprising is that volleyball and soccer participation has been higher ten years ago. Basketball was biggest around 1998 so those numbers would have been interesting.

Nothing can be done. This isn't even a correction, it's an affirmation. What is most interesting is that a lot of African American girls are also ditching basketball for volleyball and soccer and not just in California.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 08/01/17 8:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder if a trend toward participating in only one sport per year vs multiple sports across seasons is responsible for basketball's decline. What are the comparative numbers for total girls playing sports?


summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: 08/01/17 9:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So THAT'S why you're always claiming volleyball is beating out basketball, Clay...because that's what's happening in *your* sphere. Not because it's happening everywhere else, or maybe even anywhere else. California is not the world, despite what they may think.



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LitePal



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PostPosted: 08/01/17 9:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If you have figures refuting it, locally or nationally Summertime, cough it up, otherwise it just sounds like sour grapes. There have been numerous articles about the decline of female basketball, including an entire paper by Val Ackerman who called volleyball "a growing threat". For volleyball to have surpassed basketball in two years is not insignificant.

Here are NATIONAL high school numbers from 2015-2016.
Basketball: 429,380
Volleyball: 436,309
Soccer: 381,529

2014-2015
Basketball: 429,504 17,653 schools reporting
Volleyball: 432, 176 15,534 schools reporting
Soccer: 375,681 11,502 schools reporting

2013-2014
Basketball: 433,344 17,754 schools reporting
Volleyball:429,634 15,672 schools reporting
Soccer: 374,564 11,354 schools reporting

2012-2013
Basketball: 433,120 17,493 schools reporting
Volleyball: 420,208 15,565 schools reporting
Soccer: 371,532 11,351 schools reporting

Let's go back to 2008
Basketball: 444,809 17,582 schools reporting
Volleyball: 404,243 15,069 schools reporting
Soccer: 344,534 10,548 schools reporting

http://www.nfhs.org/ParticipationStatics/ParticipationStatics.aspx/
https://twitter.com/NCAAResearch/status/840208888507039745


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 7:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's just not happening in my neck of the woods..East Tennessee and western Virginia. Yes, there are volleyball teams, and yes, they get some press. But TRAVEL volleyball teams? Nope. Softball, basketball, and soccer remain the big three in eastern Tennessee, and in Virginia they seem to be joined, at least in the northern parts, by field hockey and lacrosse, although the latter two are still seen as white suburban sports and are confined more to the DC burbs and central VA, where there may be some travel volleyball teams as well. Southwestern VA is basically an extension of east TN, and basketball, softball and soccer are the big three, with track and field coming in a distant fourth. I don't have figures, but I do read the papers and I do talk to local parents.



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Slim3



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 10:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="LitePal"][quote]You have girls basketball listed four times but we get it. What is surprising is that volleyball and soccer participation has been higher ten years ago. Basketball was biggest around 1998 so those numbers would have been interesting.

[b]Nothing can be done. This isn't even a correction, it's an affirmation. What is most interesting is that a lot of African American girls are also ditching basketball for volleyball and soccer and not just in California.[/[/b][/quote]quote]

why is that so interesting? Kids want to compete and play and when alternatives are presented they will pursue them. Its no difference than the surge of soccer participation in the south or increase numbers in lacrosse outside of its traditional base along the upper east coast.


LitePal



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 11:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The reason African American girls going into Volleyball is interesting is because an argument used so often by womens basketball fans is that the sport suffers from a downtown image (i.e. African American) and volleyball is a prissy, white sport. Even the ESPN article from earlier this month noted that "There's been a huge African-American crossover into our sport, and it's become the social norm now to play volleyball, whereas 10 or 15 years ago, it was basketball," Texas coach Jerritt Elliott said.

What is also significant, or at least interesting as well is the decline in volleyball participation from males.

Summertime was the one who jumped down Clay's throat for being geographically challenged, yet the argument she presented was even more regionally biased as there was absolutely no facts or figures presented, only personal anecdotes. When shown data about nationwide trends, the response was "not here."

Diminishing popularity in womens basketball is a definite issue but first fans have to admit it exists, which might be the same as trying to convince Trump supporters about Fake News. They just won't believe it. You put all the evidence in front and they won't believe it.

http://www.espn.com/espnw/sports/article/18659764/why-young-athletes-flocking-volleyball-not-basketball-record-numbers


ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 12:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
It's just not happening in my neck of the woods..East Tennessee and western Virginia. Yes, there are volleyball teams, and yes, they get some press. But TRAVEL volleyball teams? Nope. Softball, basketball, and soccer remain the big three in eastern Tennessee, and in Virginia they seem to be joined, at least in the northern parts, by field hockey and lacrosse, although the latter two are still seen as white suburban sports and are confined more to the DC burbs and central VA, where there may be some travel volleyball teams as well. Southwestern VA is basically an extension of east TN, and basketball, softball and soccer are the big three, with track and field coming in a distant fourth. I don't have figures, but I do read the papers and I do talk to local parents.


Just a note: California may be my neck of the woods, but East Tennessee is yours, and basketball remains the major sport there. It's also the major sport in Texas, I'm pretty sure, but the national trend echoes the California trend: Volleyball is passing basketball for girls' participation, for a wide variety of reasons.

There are some things USA Basketball might do to reverse the trend or stabilize the situation, but that would require buy-in from too many people who benefit from the system the way it is.

It's sort of like climate change: The evidence is clear, but the motivation for immediate action is not (to those who are cashing checks).



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LitePal



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 1:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, let's look at Tennessee and Virginia via NFHS:

Tennessee
2015-2016
Basketball 6194
Soccer 6952
Volleyball 6354

2014-2015
Basketball 6052
Soccer 6749
Volleyball 6231

2013-2014
Basketball 6275
Soccer 6584
Volleyball 6361

2012-2013
Basketball 6133
Soccer 6434
Volleyball 6171

2011-2012
Basketball 6303
Soccer 6172
Volleyball 6119

Virginia
2015-2016
Basketball 7730
Soccer 9104
Volleyball 8033

2014-2015
Basketball 7569
Soccer 8822
Volleyball 7849

2013-2014
Basketball 7784
Soccer 9130
Volleyball 7885

2012-2013
Basketball 7571
Soccer 8773
Volleyball 7692

2011-2012
Basketball 7580
Soccer 8809
Volleyball 7750

I think VA is more difficult to asses because they have some large shifts in schools reporting from year to year. However, the most obvious takeaway is that in VA, it's been #1 Soccer, #2 Volleyball and #3 basketball since 2011. All three have shown growth.

TN is much more interesting. 2011 was #1 basketball, #2 Soccer, #3 volleyball. In 2012, soccer overtook basketball and by 2013, volleyball had overtaken basketball. In 2014 and 2015, both volleyball and soccer had experienced two straight years of growth and basketball, two straight years of decline. In Tennessee, basketball's highest number of participants was in 2011 but volleyball and soccer achieved their highest numbers in 2015 and both posted higher numbers than basketball's 2011 numbers.




Last edited by LitePal on 08/02/17 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 1:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
Southwestern VA is basically an extension of east TN.


Actually SW Va and East Tenn are both extensions of West Virginia Appalachia, and I suspect California is far more representative of the national trend than is the unique culture of Hatfield/McCoy country.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 5:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It would be interesting to see the numbers of girls enrolled in school in those states over time to see if participation rates are really going up or down.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 8:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Also DC and Beltway VA are way different from the Shenandoah Valley where I reside, and both are different fron SW VA. Just as the three "grand divisions" of Tennessee are so different that they really ought to be three different states.

But here's something else to think about. Both volleyball and soccer (and field hockey and lacrosse too, for that matter) require more players. Ergo, more participants. Duh!



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LitePal



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 10:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Soccer and volleyball ALWAYS required more team players than basketball, even when basketball had a higher participation count. I mean, that didn't just change in the last two years, did it? Duh! It also means absolutely nothing when it comes to basketball participation dropping.

And here's another thing to think about: In 2014, 17,653 schools reported basketball participation, 15,534 schools reported volleyball participation and 11,502 schools reported soccer participation. Just between basketball and volleyball alone, that's over a 2,000 school advantage for basketball but they still had fewer participants.


Slim3



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PostPosted: 08/03/17 10:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

you can also blame sport specialization. Today more and more kids are focusing and specializing on one sport; whereas, in our day you jumped from sport to sport during the school year and maybe played a sport in the summer. Today volleyball, soccer, basketball, baseball, softball, and now even football with the emergence of 7-on-7 leagues are year-round commitments.


willtalk



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: 08/30/17 3:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have no statistics to show that this is a factor except I did read some years ago that ACL injuries were increasing in women basketball players due to the rise of athleticism in that sport. Just in the teams that I follow it is obvious that players sustaining that sort of injury is becoming more common. The threat of injury might play a significant factor in some girl deciding to switch to a less injury prone game. That along with the year round commitment now required to excel in a sport might be the deciding factor in basketball being the sport eliminated.


elsie



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PostPosted: 08/31/17 12:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

where does it say that all those volleyball and soccer players don't also go out for basketball?...infact, we know that many girls who are athletic go out for multiple sports....yes, the seasons can overlap, but a lot of times the girls just join their new team as their other sport finishes up...


ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/31/17 9:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

elsie wrote:
where does it say that all those volleyball and soccer players don't also go out for basketball?...infact, we know that many girls who are athletic go out for multiple sports....yes, the seasons can overlap, but a lot of times the girls just join their new team as their other sport finishes up...


That happens less and less now, as elite athletes are told by too many people to focus on one sport -- which is not only wrong, but leads to more injuries.

And regardless, the number of females choosing to make their second sport, if they are doing so, basketball, is not equal to those choosing other sports.

Also, in California, soccer is a winter sport, so girls must choose between basketball and soccer.



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willtalk



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PostPosted: 09/03/17 1:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
-------------------------And regardless, the number of females choosing to make their second sport, if they are doing so, basketball, is not equal to those choosing other sports.-----------
.


Basketball, today, required a year round commitment to compete at the higher levels. This is especially important if the girls are shooting for a D-1 scholarship. The days of just being a good athlete have long past. This is what Mo'ne Davis and her parents are discovering in respect to the commitment that top level basketball requires.

While it is an entirely different matter for those that only wishing to play high school, even just making the team at that level has become difficult because of the skill level of those playing year round. The skill level has risen so high that basketball as a second sport is gradually being eliminated as even a possible choice.


LitePal



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PostPosted: 09/03/17 10:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Year round commitment does not apply to those girls who just take the sport up because they like it, they want exercise, they need to take a team sport, etc. Here in California, MANY of the public schools have eliminated Frosh, Soph and even JV teams because there is no interest. At the Varsity level, girls are now playing who have no experience because there aren't the players. It's almost like a no-cut cross country. The level of play on the high school level is very low.

In the turn of this century in Southern California, there were four basketball teams with girls trying for all squads. I was at my local parks and recs and they don't even have enough girls to have their own league so they have to integrate them with the boys. When I coached there in the early 2000s, there were two divisions of six teams each in each age category.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 09/05/17 1:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WSJ:

Girls Who Love Football Rush Into Their Own Leagues -- Amid injury fears and a decline in boys’ participation, young players find enough interest for all-female teams
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