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MuneravenMN
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PostPosted: 07/23/17 1:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
The Lynx still give away an EXTREMELY large number of tickets. They don't do anywhere near as many team promotions but rather they distribute them gratis to numerous organizations and businesses via the office. One of the better indicators of how many free tickets a team gives away is gauging the attendance of their playoff games vs the regular season games. Lynx playoff games see a very steep decline in attendance from regular season games, in part due to the fact there is not enough time to distribute additional tickets.


I didn't say the Lynx don't give tickets away to charitable organizations. They do. I said they give away less. And six or seven years ago Lynx tickets were easy to get very cheap. Not now.

As for play-off game drop-offs. Really? Because additional sections of the venue have often been opened for play-off games, and why would they do that for an empty venue? I attended play-off games last year and they were packed.

I do think that certain teams vastly outdraw others even in the play-offs. LA and Phoenix sell more tickets here.



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 07/23/17 2:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The finals games are fuller yes. But even the announced attendance, let alone the actual attendance were significantly less than last year's regular season. I believe there are still videos of the Lynx Mercury games from last year's playoffs. The crowds were certainly smaller than during the regular season. Still Glenn Taylor certainly takes his ownership of the Lynx seriously and does his best to put on a quality product and at the same time turn a profit. Which is a lot more than can be said for other owners.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 07/23/17 6:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's important to remember that revenue is more important than tickets distributed, and we have no access to comparative revenue numbers.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 10:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Most impressed with the Lynx's numbers considering they're not playing at the Target Center this season.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Minnesota Lynx(11) - 10,490 (+1,224)
2. Los Angeles Sparks(12) - 10,436 (+798)
3. New York Liberty(11) - 9,926 (+202)
4. Phoenix Mercury(13) - 9,664 (-687)
5. Indiana Fever(11) - 7,282 (-1,293)
6. Washington Mystics(10) - 7,170 (+241)
7. Seattle Storm(14) - 7,109 (-121)
8. Chicago Sky(10) - 6,970 (-39)
9. San Antonio Stars(13) - 6,371 (-14)
10. Connecticut Sun(11) - 6,229 (+392)
11. Atlanta Dream(12) - 4,336 (-1,278)
12. Dallas Wings(11) - 3,698 (-1,600)
WNBA Average(140) - 7,459 (-196)



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Hawkeye



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 1:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
I think San Antonio might have become the league's worst inflation case this year. Is there anyone who thinks they are drawing more than 2k per game right now? Too bad too, because San Antonio has become a real big basketball town (thanks in no small part to the continued success of the Spurs).


Remember folks, attendance isn't how many show up, it's how many tickets are sold.


Randy



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 1:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's actually the number sold plus the number given away. So it can be about anything the owners want to claim it is so long as it is less than the arena capacity.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 2:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So my wings need to start just giving out free tickets to everyone in the city. They have never given out free tickets not even since game 1 last season. Bibb is interested in getting his $$$ i see.



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 7:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The idea of tickets distributed counting rather than gate attendance is what allows the WNBA to manipulate their figures to whatever they want. Yeah I know other leagues do the same but as a total percentage the WNBA exaggerates far more than any other league. It should annoy any honest statistician but it is useful for WNBA presidents when they lie or try to justify their paycheck.
As things stand now the league remains stuck in continuous irrelevancy, desperately crying out for respect and legitimacy. Once again too if ESPN continues their downsizing (which I think they will as cable tv is dying as streaming is taking its place more and more every day) and they take ESPN2 off the air (which I think they will in around five years) then the league loses its public forum. I don't see NBATV stepping in to help, as their ratings are significantly higher for old replay games and documentaries.


tfan



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 8:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
It's actually the number sold plus the number given away. So it can be about anything the owners want to claim it is so long as it is less than the arena capacity.


Is there an official source for "announced attendance = tickets sold + tickets given away" ?


Randy



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PostPosted: 08/03/17 6:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

http://www.latimes.com/la-sp-attendance-082305-story.html

Quote:
The NBA and NHL announce the number of tickets distributed, adding complimentary tickets -- for players' families, league officials, sponsors and such -- to the number of tickets sold.


The WNBA uses the same metric.


tfan



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PostPosted: 08/03/17 1:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
http://www.latimes.com/la-sp-attendance-082305-story.html

Quote:
The NBA and NHL announce the number of tickets distributed, adding complimentary tickets -- for players' families, league officials, sponsors and such -- to the number of tickets sold.


The WNBA uses the same metric.


Thanks. I like the way they detail complimentary tickets that total a 100 or so and leave off the "groups and organizations" that can get thousands. I suspect that the WNBA doesn't go by this though. Was Washington really giving away 5,000+ tickets to every game the last few years? That's 85,000+ a season. But I guess the DC area is big enough to give away 85,0000 tickets and not his the same organization twice. But that is a lot of people who didn't want to see a game at any price.




Last edited by tfan on 08/03/17 2:23 pm; edited 4 times in total
toad455



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PostPosted: 08/03/17 2:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The announced attendance also includes all season tickets, whether they show up or not.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 08/03/17 2:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Randy wrote:
http://www.latimes.com/la-sp-attendance-082305-story.html

Quote:
The NBA and NHL announce the number of tickets distributed, adding complimentary tickets -- for players' families, league officials, sponsors and such -- to the number of tickets sold.


The WNBA uses the same metric.


Thanks. I like the way they detail complimentary tickets that total a 100 or so and leave off the "groups and organizations" that can get thousands. I suspect that the WNBA doesn't go by this though. Was Washington really giving away 5,000+ tickets to every game the last few years? After a while you think they would start getting turned down - the organization is getting feedback that nobody went to the last game so they would say no thanks to more free tickets - give them to somebody else. And at some point you would run out of somebody else.



Which may well be why attendance is down some cities. They literally can't give the tickets away in some cases. A number of years ago it was reported the Hawks were giving away an average of 5,000 tickets each game.


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 9:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

some small crowds over this past weekend(Dallas, Atlanta, San Antonio) dropped the league average quiet a bit. The league better have some nice crowds to finish out the season to avoid being worse than 2015(7,318 final average).

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Los Angeles Sparks(13) - 10,526 (+888)
2. Minnesota Lynx(11) - 10,490 (+1,224)
3. New York Liberty(12) - 9,938 (+214)
4. Phoenix Mercury(13) - 9,664 (-687)
5. Indiana Fever(13) - 7,414 (-1,161)
6. Washington Mystics(11) - 7,192 (+263)
7. Seattle Storm(14) - 7,109 (-121)
8. Chicago Sky(11) - 6,860 (-39)
9. Connecticut Sun(13) - 6,439 (+602)
10. San Antonio Stars(15) - 6,243 (-142)
11. Atlanta Dream(13) - 4,310 (-1,304)
12. Dallas Wings(14) - 3,714 (-1,584)
WNBA Average(153) - 7,405 (-249)



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Randy



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 9:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Comparing this to pilight's Changes thread numbers is interesting:

Quote:
Code:
+- Team TY LY
+7 Connecticut 15-9 8-16
+5 Washington 15-10 10-15
+4 Dallas 13-14 9-18
+2 Phoenix 13-12 11-14
+1 Minnesota 20-3 19-4
0 San Antonio 6-21 6-21
0 Seattle 10-15 10-15
-3 Atlanta 10-15 13-12
-3 Chicago 10-16 13-13
-3 Indiana 9-17 12-14
-3 Los Angeles 18-7 21-4
-5 New York 12-12 17-7



LA's gain is understandable after winning their ship despite not doing as well this season so far. Lynx gains are very good considering that they didn't win it all last year, and are doing about the same this year. Sun numbers are up because they are winning a lot more. Drop off for Indy is not surprising given the record change and loss of Catchings. Not only is Atlanta in a different arena, the team isn't doing as well. NY has a much worse record but some more fans are showing up. Dallas is doing better on the court, but much worse in the stands. Perhaps the most surprising is DC - team is doing much better, but adding EDD and Toliver hasn't helped much at the box office. (Then again, Mystics numbers have always be subject to suspicion.)


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 9:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The most shocking numbers are Dallas & Washington. I was expecting good sized crowds in DC with Delle Donne there & it just didn't happen. Dallas' numbers are just sad. To only see 3,000 in the stands with half of the arena tarped off isn't good. Atlanta's numbers were expected to drop with the temporary move. Very pleased that the Lynx numbers are way up despite not playing at the Target Center.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 10:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Look for a late-season burst in reported attendance to get past the 2015 numbers (if not the 2016).

It's amazing how attendance goes up for those final games despite school being back in session, and football in full swing.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 10:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

yeah, I'm convinced the numbers will start to go up and pass last year's final number. Stars only have 2 more home games, the Wings only 3 & Atlanta only 4 while the Lynx have 6 more, the Liberty 5 more & Phoenix & LA have 4 more.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 12:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
The most shocking numbers are Dallas & Washington. I was expecting good sized crowds in DC with Delle Donne there & it just didn't happen. Dallas' numbers are just sad. To only see 3,000 in the stands with half of the arena tarped off isn't good. Atlanta's numbers were expected to drop with the temporary move. Very pleased that the Lynx numbers are way up despite not playing at the Target Center.


I think the issue is hte location with the Dallas Team. Ive said that since Day 1 . I understand the reasoning though , arlington is the new boomtown suburb of the DFW metroplex with the cowboys & rangers playing 2 mins away , But i think most WBB fans in this city reside in the heart of Dallas. Downtown dallas and thats about 45 minutes to an hour away from Arlington. There are no Bus routes or trains that will take you to UTA - College Park center . All of those transportation methods are in the Dallas city area where the Mavericks Play and continously draw well even in horrible years like now.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 3:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Being a bit of a walk from Marta has probably also hurt the Dream. Plus, parking is harder to find or a longer walk than was the case at Phillips. Still arena rental would seem to be less for the GA Tech's arena.


josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 11:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Look for a late-season burst in reported attendance to get past the 2015 numbers (if not the 2016).

It's amazing how attendance goes up for those final games despite school being back in session, and football in full swing.



Good point. The numbers seem to be in general pretty stable in the past three years. The decline in tv viewership is telling though. Which is once again why I think the WNBA could try a drastically new campaign that might succeed or fail. But they could try it without alienating their current base.


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/16/17 9:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Realistically if you look at the numbers without Dallas & Atlanta, the league is doing better. Just such a shame two teams are dragging down the league's overall average.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Minnesota Lynx(12) - 10,577 (+1,311)
2. Los Angeles Sparks(13) - 10,526 (+888)
3. New York Liberty(13) - 9,949 (+225)
4. Phoenix Mercury(14) - 9,817 (-534)
5. Indiana Fever(13) - 7,414 (-1,161)
6. Washington Mystics(12) - 7,204 (+275)
7. Seattle Storm(14) - 7,109 (-121)
8. Chicago Sky(12) - 6,679 (-330)
9. Connecticut Sun(14) - 6,472 (+635)
10. San Antonio Stars(16) - 6,288 (-97)
11. Atlanta Dream(15) - 4,385 (-1,229)
12. Dallas Wings(15) - 3,744 (-1,554)
WNBA Average(163) - 7,400 (-254)

League average without Atlanta & Dallas - 8,152.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 08/16/17 9:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Lynx might want to consider making their new home their permanent home because it seems to draw better.


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/16/17 10:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
The Lynx might want to consider making their new home their permanent home because it seems to draw better.


I'm curious to hear from Lynx fans if it's easier to get to the Xcel Center than the Target Center?



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 08/16/17 11:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I lived in the Twin Cities for many years. It's about the same. Same public transportation options, parking etc. The Excel center is newer and has a few more things to offer than the Target Center, but that may change after the renovations are completed.


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