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Kelsey Plum, a bust or too early?
Yes
19%
 19%  [ 16 ]
Too early to tell
71%
 71%  [ 59 ]
No
9%
 9%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 83

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ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/21/17 9:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bcdawg04 wrote:
threadkiller1201 wrote:
I voted "too soon to tell" because I think she's playing hurt.


She is. She is not yet fully recovered from the high ankle sprain sustained during preseason.

After Sunday's game, Elise Woodward asked her about playing on the injury/playing in pain--and Woodward told the crowd about how Plum played most of her sophomore year at UW with a serious knee injury (a torn meniscus that she put off surgery for until the offseason).

Plum didn't go into details about her current injury. She said, "Healthy or not healthy, it is a difficult transition," and "I trust the San Antonio team doctors."

tfan wrote:
So Plum is 5'10". Although she did look noticeably smaller than the 5'10" listed Sami Whitcomb. Which means that Whitcomb is at least 6 feet tall. Very Happy


LOL UW had Plum listed at 5'9" when she was a freshman. The next year she admitted to being closer to 5'7", and UW "settled on" listing her at 5'8".

I think the listed player heights are mostly relative. Aren't most players, especially the guards, fudging an inch or two?


My favorite height story (told here before but it's been a while): Kara Lawson was always listed as 5-8, and then late in her career, she suddenly jumped to 5-10 on the Monarchs' roster. That same year Yolanda Griffith and DeMya Walker both "shrunk" from 6-5 to 6-4. Apparently they donated the excess inches to Lawson ...



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/21/17 10:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I dont want to be the Lady Plum killer but how long will this injury be the reason for her less than stellar rookie season ? If its that bad then maybe she should just shut it down ? After ASG break will this still be a factor if she continues to struggle ? Ijs Embarassed


Why is it such a big problem. SHe is helping them get the number 1 pick in next years draft. This team wasnt going anywhere anyway..
So just play your number 1 pick and help her get comfortable for next season. But it might be a good start your other best players aswell. They should just play Jefferson, Plum, McBride together



She could also help them by just taking care of this injury issue and im sure they will still end up the worse team either way so shut it down and still get the # 1 pick . Btw tbh shes not helping them do ANYTHING besides turn the ball over .



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/21/17 10:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

miller40 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I dont want to be the Lady Plum killer but how long will this injury be the reason for her less than stellar rookie season ? If its that bad then maybe she should just shut it down ? After ASG break will this still be a factor if she continues to struggle ? Ijs Embarassed


I tend to agreee. If they aren't winning any games with their #1 pick playing, and if this injury is so bad, shut her down and get her healthy and not risk further (or long term) damage.



This __________X Idea



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bcdawg04



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PostPosted: 06/21/17 11:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

miller40 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I dont want to be the Lady Plum killer but how long will this injury be the reason for her less than stellar rookie season ? If its that bad then maybe she should just shut it down ? After ASG break will this still be a factor if she continues to struggle ? Ijs Embarassed


I tend to agreee. If they aren't winning any games with their #1 pick playing, and if this injury is so bad, shut her down and get her healthy and not risk further (or long term) damage.


When Woodward asked Plum about returning at less than 100%, Plum said, "I trust the San Antonio team doctors. I trust that they have my best interests in mind." So she trusts that her doctors believe she is not risking long term damage by playing while still rehabbing.

Just like at UW, when she played on a torn meniscus for half of her sophomore year--team doctors said then that she wasn't risking further injury and she could wait until the offseason to have surgery. That worked out all right.

Granted, these are different doctors now, but there is so much going on behind the scenes in San Antonio that I just don't know about. I'm not going to diagnose her from here. If she trusts the San Antonio doctors, then I do too. She always knew it would be a challenging transition. It's unfortunate that she got injured on top of coming in to the least talented team in the league, at that team's position of strength, with a first year head coach (plus Jefferson's injury). I am confident, however, that all of this will just drive her to work harder.


SDHoops



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PostPosted: 06/21/17 12:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

VJ if you read this; DONT GIVE INTO PRESSURE AND PLAY PLUM JUST BECAUSE IDIOTS SAY SO! Plum can't score for a winless team but the Pluminatirs seem to think she's the next Bird in waiting for Seattle. Waste of floor space if you ask me smh


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/21/17 1:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SDHoops wrote:
VJ if you read this; DONT GIVE INTO PRESSURE AND PLAY PLUM JUST BECAUSE IDIOTS SAY SO! Plum can't score for a winless team but the Pluminatirs seem to think she's the next Bird in waiting for Seattle. Waste of floor space if you ask me smh


This is hard to not agree with , Embarassed Im running out of optimistic comments for the gal . Injuries , coach's fault , transition . All have been exhausted . Shes starting and getting more minutes but no increase in production.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 7:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In this 57 point game where she set the scoring record she scored on:

13 foul shots
3 open threes from a pass
3 threes from dribble, stop, shoot
2 short jumpers
1 floater
3 driving right-handed layups wth defender
5 driving left-handed layups with defender
1 uncovered right-hand layup
1 long lefty layup-ish shot in the paint with defender

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Fl0pIeWBaso" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Randy



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 8:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So is it too early to say Washington Huskie PG and No. 1 Pick Markelle Fulz is a bust?

Has it ever happened before that two players from the same school went No. 1 in the NBA and WNBA draft?


awhom111



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 8:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Assuming the Fenerbahce rumors are true, Kelsey is certainly not taking a break in the fall. There may be no higher pressure team to play for out there. As if her social media does not already get bombarded enough.
bcdawg04



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 8:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Has it ever happened before that two players from the same school went No. 1 in the NBA and WNBA draft?


No. They have never even come from the same conference.

Washington Becomes First School Produce Top Pick In NBA And WNBA Drafts

Fultz may have been a one-and-done on one of the worst teams in school history and Plum is struggling as a pro now, but while at UW, they were nothing but class. They will be remembered as true Dawgs.


pilight



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 9:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Has it ever happened before that two players from the same school went No. 1 in the NBA and WNBA draft?


Not in the same year. Duke, Louisville, LSU, Minnesota, and Notre Dame have had #1 picks in both the NBA and WNBA drafts in different years.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 06/23/17 3:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/592Dq2FRl7Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


bcdawg04



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PostPosted: 06/23/17 5:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[spoiler alert]

I missed Tina Thompson, but I got the rest.

Kelsey gets a bonus point for the speed with which she answered #4, but she should lose a point for calling it "Pike's". Razz


tfan



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PostPosted: 06/26/17 5:47 am    ::: Re: Kelsey Plum Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
Hmm there have been a lot of pointguards that struggle in their first couple of seasons before they turn it around. Its just not Hammon. A lot of people say it takes pointguards about 3 years to really come into their own. I think Vandersloot is a pretty good example of that. There was a lot of hype about her but it took her a while


And I don't think Plum played point guard for at least half of her college career (she is referred to as a high school point guard by one Hoopgurlz article). For her freshman and sophomore years, I believe Jazmine Davis was the point guard. For her junior year I think Alexus Atchley may have technically been considered the point guard, at least bringing the ball up, with Plum as a ball-dominant two. Last year Aarion McDonald may have been a partial point guard for the 24mpg she was in, again as far as bringing the ball up (with Plum still ball-dominant) Maybe a Husky fan can confirm or correct that. Plum's A/TO ratio got a lot better her senior year, so I think she'd be a lot farther along if she had been a true point guard for 4 years of college.

Plum's assists took a jump after Davis graduated at the end of her sophomore year but her assist stats in college pale to Vandersloots WCC stats so she seems to have a bigger hill to climb than Vandersloot with regard to becoming a good point guard:

Code:

Kelsey Plum
Year         ast   to    Apg    A/TO
2013-14       93   98    2.74   0.95
2014-15      108   91    3.27   1.19
2015-16      154   159   4.16   0.97
2016-17      168   88    4.80   1.91
Total        523   436   3.76   1.20



Code:
Courney Vandersloot
Year      ast   to    APG    A/TO
2007-08   191   103   5.62   1.85
2008-09   239   120   7.47   1.99
2009-10   321   145   9.44   2.21
2010-11   367   119   10.19  3.08
Total    1118   487   8.22   2.30
 


One thing I noticed in looking at Plum's college stats is that she never missed a game and started every game. And her average minutes per game were 37.38. Good foundation for setting an all-time record.




Last edited by tfan on 06/26/17 6:59 am; edited 2 times in total
Michelle89



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PostPosted: 06/26/17 6:55 am    ::: Re: Kelsey Plum Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
Hmm there have been a lot of pointguards that struggle in their first couple of seasons before they turn it around. Its just not Hammon. A lot of people say it takes pointguards about 3 years to really come into their own. I think Vandersloot is a pretty good example of that. There was a lot of hype about her but it took her a while


And I don't think Plum played point guard for at least half of her college career (she is referred to as a high school point guard by one Hoopgurlz article). For her freshman and sophomore years, I believe Jazmine Davis was the point guard. For her junior year I think Alexus Atchley may have technically been considered the point guard, with Plum as a ball-dominant two. Last year Aarion McDonald seemed to be more of the point guard for the 24mpg she was in, at least as far as bringing the ball up (with Plum still ball-dominant) Maybe a Husky fan can confirm or correct that. Plum's A/TO ratio got a lot better her senior year, so maybe she was more an actual point guard last season.

Plum's assists took a jump after Davis graduated at the end of her sophomore year but her assist stats in college pale to Vandersloots WCC stats so she seems to have a bigger hill to climb than Vandersloot with regard to becoming a good point guard:

Code:

Kelsey Plum
Year         ast   to    Apg    A/TO
2013-14       93   98    2.74   0.95
2014-15      108   91    3.27   1.19
2015-16      154   159   4.16   0.97
2016-17      168   88    4.80   1.91
Total        523   436   3.76   1.20



Code:
Courney Vandersloot
Year      ast   to    APG    A/TO
2007-08   191   103   5.62   1.85
2008-09   239   120   7.47   1.99
2009-10   321   145   9.44   2.21
2010-11   367   119   10.19  3.08
Total    1118   487   8.22   2.30
 


One thing I noticed in looking at Plum's college stats is that she never missed a game and started every game. And her average minutes per game were 37.38. Good foundation for setting an all-time record.


Your post proves even more that she needs time to grow and adjust to playing the pointguard position in the WNBA. That is why i think the Stars should play Jefferson and Plum together more. They can both spot up and shoot so let them take turns bringing the ball up



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Hoops9092



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PostPosted: 06/26/17 10:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I feel for Kelsey. Really hope she can turn this around. I remember Nicole Powell having a horrible first year after being considered one of the big 3 in her 2004 draft class, then after a trade to Sacramento she really turned it up.


bcdawg04



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PostPosted: 06/26/17 7:14 pm    ::: Re: Kelsey Plum Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
And I don't think Plum played point guard for at least half of her college career (she is referred to as a high school point guard by one Hoopgurlz article). For her freshman and sophomore years, I believe Jazmine Davis was the point guard. For her junior year I think Alexus Atchley may have technically been considered the point guard, at least bringing the ball up, with Plum as a ball-dominant two. Last year Aarion McDonald may have been a partial point guard for the 24mpg she was in, again as far as bringing the ball up (with Plum still ball-dominant) Maybe a Husky fan can confirm or correct that.


For sure, during Plum's sophomore year, Jaz Davis was primarily the point guard. During Plum's freshman year, she and Davis played alongside true point guard Mercedes Wetmore. As for Plum's junior and senior years...I'm not sure it is so straight forward. Atchley, imo, mostly played the 2-guard, though they both handled the ball. Last year, the team's truest point guard (Kelli Kingma) suffered an injury in the second or third game of the year that ultimately turned out to be season-ending. McDonald missed the first month of the season with an injury, but once she came in, yes - she spent a fair amount of time at the 1. Neighbors will tell you that Natalie Romeo spent time at the 1 as well.

I think, particularly this past year, Neighbors ran a relatively unconventional offensive system. The Huskies primarily played a 3-guard lineup, which is not that unconventional for college (even if Plum was the tallest of the three). I call it unconventional because, for starters, I have never seen a system that gave a singular player as much freedom as Plum was given.

Plum joked in one award acceptance speech, "Some players are given the green light. I think I was given a highway."

The Huskies played with multiple ball handlers, but much of the offense was designed around her. The secret to UW's success, and to Plum's success, however, was that the offense was not built solely around her. The offense was very clearly designed to utilize both Plum's strengths and Chantel Osahor's strengths. I'm sure it seemed to many casual fans that UW was basically the Kelsey Plum show, but Kelsey operated with the kind of freedom she did because of how well she and Osahor complemented each other. Osahor, as a kind of point forward, was as critical to the offense as Plum. Neighbors said multiple times that when the offense struggled, often his message to the team would be to make sure Osahor got more touches.

I mean, Plum could scarcely ever dribble herself into trouble when she always had the option to toss the ball to Osahor. Defenses had to respect Osahor's outside shot. They had to respect her dribble-drive. And Osahor was the team's best passer and had a career 1.8 assist/turnover ratio.

Another unconventional aspect of the system was the fact that Neighbors gave the green light to every player who got into the game. Nobody was allowed to pass up an open three-point look. So for as much as the offense was designed for Plum and Osahor, the rest of the team was willing to do their part to make the defense work - to move without the ball and to make it difficult for the opposition to double team either Plum or Osahor. They trusted Plum's and Osahor's decision making, and they knew they were allowed to take any shot they wanted. The system allowed a fair amount of freedom for all of the players. And yes, Plum still took most of the shot attempts...but she actually didn't shoot any more than she had the previous year.

Think about that for a moment: as a senior she increased her average nearly 6 points per game from her junior year, while attempting the same number of field goals per game. That's partially a product of her own competitiveness and her focus on efficiency, but that is also a product of teamwork getting her better looks.

Whether San Antonio plays her at the 1 or the 2 (or rather, if they play her), she won't have the kind of freedom to operate offensively the way Neighbors' unique system allowed her. That kind of system is not going to work at this level. She is going to have to adjust. She'll be playing in a more restrictive system. She won't have the ball in her hands as much. She's not going to play the first 37 minutes of the game - she might actually come in and out of a game. The competitor in her wanted to go #1 so she did what she did, making it impossible to pass on her, and thus she ended up on the worst team. I'm not sure the Stars have much of an offensive system in place - they seem to rely mostly on Jefferson to make something happen. Even with Jefferson playing well, the team is just not very good. Still, Plum has to adjust and find a way to make an impact with fewer minutes and fewer touches.


tfan



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PostPosted: 06/29/17 11:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/30/17 6:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Harden also did not have an overwhelmingly impressive rookie season



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When the straight and narrow
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tfan



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PostPosted: 07/06/17 2:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Humbling start for prized rookie Plum

Quote:
After a recent session, she stayed on the court for an extra hour to work out with Becky Hammon, a former Stars great who is an assistant coach for the Spurs.


tfan



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PostPosted: 07/21/17 3:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is from a few weeks ago:



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PostPosted: 08/01/17 7:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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tfan



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PostPosted: 08/10/17 7:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Purple pen helps Plum blossom


ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/26/17 9:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've been in the wait-and-see category but it sure looks like Plum is simply not ready for the WNBA. That doesn't mean she won't be ready at some point, but from her play this summer, I wouldn't expect it next year.

She plays hard, has some skills and apparently does the things necessary to improve, but shooters have to make shots, and she's not doing that.

Too bad, really ... the league can always use more good players.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 08/26/17 9:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I've been in the wait-and-see category but it sure looks like Plum is simply not ready for the WNBA. That doesn't mean she won't be ready at some point, but from her play this summer, I wouldn't expect it next year.

She plays hard, has some skills and apparently does the things necessary to improve, but shooters have to make shots, and she's not doing that.

Too bad, really ... the league can always use more good players.

She's already improved dramatically from the start of her rookie season. That's a pretty good start.



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