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Sky @ Liberty - 7/14/17
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Who will win this game?
Sky
23%
 23%  [ 4 ]
Liberty
76%
 76%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 17

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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 8:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Given how the Liberty players have been doing lately, what reason is there to believe that any other WNBA team would want to acquire anyone on the roster other than Tina Charles?



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 8:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And honestly the Sky have looked very good in their past three wins. So much for them tanking.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 8:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some stats from tonight: New York outrebounded Chicago, 49 to 34. (19 for Tina Charles). New York had 20 free throws, made only 12. Chicago had four free throws, made them all.

It's not easy to lose a game when you outrebound the other team by 15 and get 16 more free throws. But it can be done.



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Queenie



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 8:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, first you have to miss eight of those free throws.

Then you have to have multiple offensive rebound opportunities that turn into nothing but defensive rebound opportunities.

Then you have to not actually be able to figure out what the fuck your offense is.

I love my team. I really, really do. But goddamn if we aren't the goddamn dumbest team in the league sometimes.



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LibFan25



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 8:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Thinking maybe its time to shake some things up in the new york backcourt? Prince for Sims & 1st Rounder? Or Prince For Plum? Sugar For Plum ? One of them has to go imo


they should get rid of Prince, never was a fan of hers, never was a fan of the trade. Sugar can stay due to the play on the defense end she plays hard

its depressing and sad watching this team but in the back of my mind saying good cuz it will most likely be some changes coming in the future


toad455



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 8:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This hurt us the most:

Prince: 2-8
Rodgers: 4-17
FT: 12-20

And I wonder why Raincock has been shoved to the end of the bench?



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Randy



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 9:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
This hurt us the most:

Prince: 2-8
Rodgers: 4-17
FT: 12-20

And I wonder why Raincock has been shoved to the end of the bench?


Not just NRE (DNP), Stokes - 9 minutes; Hatley 2m. IIRC - these were players getting much more time when the team was winning. The Liberty doghouse has lots of rooms.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 9:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
This hurt us the most:

Prince: 2-8
Rodgers: 4-17
FT: 12-20

And I wonder why Raincock has been shoved to the end of the bench?


Not just NRE (DNP), Stokes - 9 minutes; Hatley 2m. IIRC - these were players getting much more time when the team was winning. The Liberty doghouse has lots of rooms.


I think you're making far too much of a brief winning streak. In the games since in which those players had minutes, they didn't play well. In my view, that four-game streak now looks like a lovely fluke. Do you think the team would do much better in the next five or 10 games if Raincock-Ekunwe, Stokes, and Hartley got big minutes? I don't.

And, to be clear, I'm certainly not suggesting that they are the only players on the team who haven't been playing well.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 10:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting part of post game where Bill talked about them being tight and not having fun. This is where the leadership aspect or lack thereof comes into play unfortunately. But yes they looked tighter than tight.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 10:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I listened to the rest of the post. Bill mentioned the lack of pace, which I think is significant. And it stems from the fact that Piph is not a point guard in the sense of pushing pace to create for others. Sugar is fast but her handle and passing in the open floor still aren't good. And Boyd, who could create tempo, is hurt. Her loss is huge for that reason.



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lynxmania



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 11:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Congrats to the Sky on another victory! I can see them getting into the playoffs now and getting a lower draft pick and selecting Mercedes Russell since they really like having centers! Wink Laughing


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 11:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Prince and 2nd round pick in 18 to Dallas for K. Davis
Vaughn and 3rd round pick in 18 to Chicago for Boyette

trying to keep it slightly realistic

Zellous/L. Allen
Rodgers/Hartley
K. Davis/R. Allen
Charles/Raincock-Ekunwe/Zahui B
Boyette/Stokes

Get younger, bigger and more athletic, give an opportunity to shine to players not being used by their own team, shake things up. Stokes can still get starter minutes off the bench if Imani is flailing.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 11:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How about a simple one? Zahui for Boyette. Disappointment for disappointment. Chicago gets a player that better fits its system. Libs get a desperately needed rim protector who maybe could be taught how to play inside by people who run an inside-oriented system.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 11:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I considered that but Zahui B IMO has had such a rough season that her trade value is nill ATM, Boyette is 6'7" and has proven she can be a legit rim protector, so she get a little more leeway with her rough season. Vaugh at least has been consistent, and could be a nice back up to Dolson for Chicago off the bench, and a veteran presence, she has also played with Dolson and Pondexter before so she might be easier to incorporate.

Also I'm kind of bouncing of (the possibly) incorrect theory that the team was better when Prince and Vaughn were over-seas. Even though I do believe that could have just been coincidence.

Also I think Laimbeer could do wonders for Boyette and Davis.




Last edited by J-Spoon on 07/14/17 11:40 pm; edited 3 times in total
NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 11:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Randy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
This hurt us the most:

Prince: 2-8
Rodgers: 4-17
FT: 12-20

And I wonder why Raincock has been shoved to the end of the bench?


Not just NRE (DNP), Stokes - 9 minutes; Hatley 2m. IIRC - these were players getting much more time when the team was winning. The Liberty doghouse has lots of rooms.


I think you're making far too much of a brief winning streak. In the games since in which those players had minutes, they didn't play well. In my view, that four-game streak now looks like a lovely fluke. Do you think the team would do much better in the next five or 10 games if Raincock-Ekunwe, Stokes, and Hartley got big minutes? I don't.

And, to be clear, I'm certainly not suggesting that they are the only players on the team who haven't been playing well.


I agree. I think what's happening now...given the disappointing performances of a number of players...would have been inevitable with or without Piph and Kia. There's "team" things that need fixing that go beyond one or two individuals.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 11:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Prince and 2nd round pick in 18 to Dallas for K. Davis
Vaughn and 3rd round pick in 18 to Chicago for Boyette

trying to keep it slightly realistic

Zellous/L. Allen
Rodgers/Hartley
K. Davis/R. Allen
Charles/Raincock-Ekunwe/Zahui B
Boyette/Stokes

Get younger, bigger and more athletic, give an opportunity to shine to players not being used by their own team, shake things up. Stokes can still get starter minutes off the bench if Imani is flailing.


Z can't be a full time PG. She's not able to function that way beyond a limited number of offensive sets.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 11:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
Prince and 2nd round pick in 18 to Dallas for K. Davis
Vaughn and 3rd round pick in 18 to Chicago for Boyette

trying to keep it slightly realistic

Zellous/L. Allen
Rodgers/Hartley
K. Davis/R. Allen
Charles/Raincock-Ekunwe/Zahui B
Boyette/Stokes

Get younger, bigger and more athletic, give an opportunity to shine to players not being used by their own team, shake things up. Stokes can still get starter minutes off the bench if Imani is flailing.


Z can't be a full time PG. She's not able to function that way beyond a limited number of offensive sets.


I prefer when she runs the offense to when Prince does it. I'd be fine giving Hartley and Allen more opportunity at the spot and let Zellous start there and back up Davis at the 3.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 11:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I considered that but Zahui B IMO has had such a rough season that her trade value is nill ATM, Boyette is 6'7" and has proven she can be a legit rim protector, so she get a little more leeway with her rough season. Vaugh at least has been consistent, and could be a nice back up to Dolson for Chicago off the bench, and a veteran presence, she has also played with Dolson and Pondexter before so she might be easier to incorporate.

Also I'm kind of bouncing of (the possibly) incorrect theory that the team was better when Prince and Vaughn were over-seas. Even though I do believe that could have just been coincidence.

Also I think Laimbeer could do wonders for Boyette and Davis.


Good points. The Boyette part might work if you're willing in effect to concede the season.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 11:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
Prince and 2nd round pick in 18 to Dallas for K. Davis
Vaughn and 3rd round pick in 18 to Chicago for Boyette

trying to keep it slightly realistic

Zellous/L. Allen
Rodgers/Hartley
K. Davis/R. Allen
Charles/Raincock-Ekunwe/Zahui B
Boyette/Stokes

Get younger, bigger and more athletic, give an opportunity to shine to players not being used by their own team, shake things up. Stokes can still get starter minutes off the bench if Imani is flailing.


Z can't be a full time PG. She's not able to function that way beyond a limited number of offensive sets.


I prefer when she runs the offense to when Prince does it. I'd be fine giving Hartley and Allen more opportunity at the spot and let Zellous start there and back up Davis at the 3.


I like when she runs the offense too. But she's a change of pace right now, which is part of why it works. She's also being guarded by SFs. Guard her with PGs who get into her dribble, you'll likely see different outcomes.



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lynxmania



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 11:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe the Libs should see if they could get Swords back?


sigur3



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 11:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
How about a simple one? Zahui for Boyette. Disappointment for disappointment. Chicago gets a player that better fits its system. Libs get a desperately needed rim protector who maybe could be taught how to play inside by people who run an inside-oriented system.


J-Spoon wrote:

Vaughn and 3rd round pick in 18 to Chicago for Boyette


Come on guys...



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 11:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm pretty bummed right now, tonight was the first time I though maybe the lottery wouldn't be the worst the thing. If NY is in the lottery they are pretty much going to get #4, #3 if they are lucky because there two year record will be really good compared to the other teams but

I wouldn't hate the idea of adding Deshields or K. Mitchell we would at least have that one on one scorer who might be able to take over some games on the offense end that we lack at the moment, or we add G. Williams as our new SF which would also be pretty awesome.

Out of the lottery I'm still thinking Canada for speed and scoring (Even if Boyd comes back is she a starter?) or if we want size Billings or Russell, but the lottery options seem like a much better solution to what i see as the biggest problem this team has which is scoring and athleticism.


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 11:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sigur3 wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
How about a simple one? Zahui for Boyette. Disappointment for disappointment. Chicago gets a player that better fits its system. Libs get a desperately needed rim protector who maybe could be taught how to play inside by people who run an inside-oriented system.


J-Spoon wrote:

Vaughn and 3rd round pick in 18 to Chicago for Boyette


Come on guys...


Yeah I know, but your coach isn't playing Boyette, and Vaughn could probably deliver more than Boyette is being given the opportunity to. Plus we're desperate.


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 07/14/17 11:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

lynxmania wrote:
Maybe the Libs should see if they could get Swords back?


and Pondexter while were at it. J/K...I think.


Queenie



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PostPosted: 07/15/17 12:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
lynxmania wrote:
Maybe the Libs should see if they could get Swords back?


and Pondexter while were at it. J/K...I think.


Nope. Nope. Nope, nope, nopenopenopenopenopenopenopenopenope



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sigur3



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PostPosted: 07/15/17 12:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
lynxmania wrote:
Maybe the Libs should see if they could get Swords back?


and Pondexter while were at it. J/K...I think.


Now this I could get on board with!



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genesis1272



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PostPosted: 07/15/17 2:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nayo has a fractured metacarpal. Not her shooting hand, but still.


Shades



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PostPosted: 07/15/17 2:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I considered that but Zahui B IMO has had such a rough season that her trade value is nill ATM


Zahui for Fagbenle and the rights to the French player the Lynx drafted.



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PostPosted: 07/15/17 12:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sigur3 wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
How about a simple one? Zahui for Boyette. Disappointment for disappointment. Chicago gets a player that better fits its system. Libs get a desperately needed rim protector who maybe could be taught how to play inside by people who run an inside-oriented system.


J-Spoon wrote:

Vaughn and 3rd round pick in 18 to Chicago for Boyette


Come on guys...


Don't be shocked at strange trade proposals on rebkell. The realistic proposals are the ones they always shoot down. Those proposals that have equal value for both teams are beyond the comprehension of these people because they are not astronomically lopsided! Laughing



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LibFan25



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PostPosted: 07/15/17 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I'm pretty bummed right now, tonight was the first time I though maybe the lottery wouldn't be the worst the thing. If NY is in the lottery they are pretty much going to get #4, #3 if they are lucky because there two year record will be really good compared to the other teams but

I wouldn't hate the idea of adding Deshields or K. Mitchell we would at least have that one on one scorer who might be able to take over some games on the offense end that we lack at the moment, or we add G. Williams as our new SF which would also be pretty awesome.

Out of the lottery I'm still thinking Canada for speed and scoring (Even if Boyd comes back is she a starter?) or if we want size Billings or Russell, but the lottery options seem like a much better solution to what i see as the biggest problem this team has which is scoring and athleticism.


With all the injuries spreading like wildfire around the W, i think the Libs will be in the playoffs by default and not be in the lottery.

ima say this again, I want Jordin Canada. a bona-fide PG that can do-it-all. split the PG duties with Boyd/Canada and you got Speed demons in the backcourt with their ferocious defense. Boyd was about to breakout

im with you lets get young and faster i would trade Prince for a 2nd round pick, then you got 2 picks in the second round. this team aint going nowhere lets start stacking up picks with this deep draft

Get a post player like Stephanie Mavunga from Ohio state or Victoria Vivians in the 2nd for more scoring punch off the bench. its real early in the game to talk about but i like having these conversations to find out what the future holds.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 07/15/17 5:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LibFan25 wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
I'm pretty bummed right now, tonight was the first time I though maybe the lottery wouldn't be the worst the thing. If NY is in the lottery they are pretty much going to get #4, #3 if they are lucky because there two year record will be really good compared to the other teams but

I wouldn't hate the idea of adding Deshields or K. Mitchell we would at least have that one on one scorer who might be able to take over some games on the offense end that we lack at the moment, or we add G. Williams as our new SF which would also be pretty awesome.

Out of the lottery I'm still thinking Canada for speed and scoring (Even if Boyd comes back is she a starter?) or if we want size Billings or Russell, but the lottery options seem like a much better solution to what i see as the biggest problem this team has which is scoring and athleticism.


With all the injuries spreading like wildfire around the W, i think the Libs will be in the playoffs by default and not be in the lottery.

ima say this again, I want Jordin Canada. a bona-fide PG that can do-it-all. split the PG duties with Boyd/Canada and you got Speed demons in the backcourt with their ferocious defense. Boyd was about to breakout

im with you lets get young and faster i would trade Prince for a 2nd round pick, then you got 2 picks in the second round. this team aint going nowhere lets start stacking up picks with this deep draft

Get a post player like Stephanie Mavunga from Ohio state or Victoria Vivians in the 2nd for more scoring punch off the bench. its real early in the game to talk about but i like having these conversations to find out what the future holds.


To repeat, Canada cannot shoot consistently from outside. Lindsay Allen shot 35% from three at Notre Dame; last year, Canada was at 35.4.

I think a lot of Canada, as she is a fine all-around player and a good point guard, but like so many players, she has relied on getting to the rim her entire career and that option will no longer work in the W. To expect her to be much better than Allen would be expecting too much, I think.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 07/15/17 9:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
sigur3 wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
How about a simple one? Zahui for Boyette. Disappointment for disappointment. Chicago gets a player that better fits its system. Libs get a desperately needed rim protector who maybe could be taught how to play inside by people who run an inside-oriented system.


J-Spoon wrote:

Vaughn and 3rd round pick in 18 to Chicago for Boyette


Come on guys...


Don't be shocked at strange trade proposals on rebkell. The realistic proposals are the ones they always shoot down. Those proposals that have equal value for both teams are beyond the comprehension of these people because they are not astronomically lopsided! Laughing


I don't think Vaughn for Boyette is that crazy considering how Imani is being used at the moment.

Remind me what did you get for EDD? what did you get for Fowles? Did Seattle trade the #6 pick for Swords? Did NY get a first round draft pick for A. Montgomery? Did SA trade Jia Perkins for Gwathmey? Did Dallas get the #3 or #4 pick for O. Sims? Did Atlanta get E. Williams for the pick Conn used on Banham? Zahui B for the pick that became K. Davis isn't looking too hot either. So, Yeah all the trades in the W are so comprehensible.

"Beyond the comprehension of These People" step off with that crap, you think a trade is crazy say "That trade is crazy".


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PostPosted: 07/15/17 10:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If anyone does not like the words that I post they have the option of locating the largest rock they can find and to kick it with all the force their body can generate. I guarantee it will make you feel better! Laughing



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PostPosted: 07/15/17 10:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I just think it is rude and condescending to imply someone is stupid or that something is "beyond their comprehension" based on something they post on a message board, so maybe I will go kick so rocks, because I'm embarrassed that something someone said on this board kind of hurt my feelings. Or maybe I will just relax and realize that when people say stuff like that it is really more a reflection on their own character, and isn't something I need to concern myself with. Very Happy


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PostPosted: 07/16/17 9:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
If anyone does not like the words that I post they have the option of locating the largest rock they can find and to kick it with all the force their body can generate. I guarantee it will make you feel better! Laughing


Thwacking a pillow gives the same satisfaction without the broken toe.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 07/16/17 1:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:

To repeat, Canada cannot shoot consistently from outside. Lindsay Allen shot 35% from three at Notre Dame; last year, Canada was at 35.4.


What are the minimum shooting percentages for point guards (and does percentage drop from college to pros) ? 35.4 doesn't sound that bad to me.

Career shooting percentage from three:

Kristi Toliver 40.1%
Leilani Mitchell 39.7%
Chelsea Gray 38.9%
Moriah Jefferson 38.7%
Sue Bird 38.6%
Ivory Latta 37.3%
Briann January 37.1%
-------- 35.4% --------------------------------
Renee Montgomery 34.5%
Courtney Vandersloot 32.5%
Jasmine Thomas 32%
Alex Bentley 31.3%
Layisha Clarendon 30.1%
Skylar Diggins 29.6%
Lindsay Whalen 29%
Daniel Robinson - doesn't shoot them


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PostPosted: 07/16/17 2:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would guess that ClayK is worried that a 35% shooter in college would be worse from the longer pro line, but yeah, 35% is fine. 34% is typically about the WNBA average from 3pt range.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 07/17/17 10:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The other issue is that New York is in serious need of another three-point shooter so to say Canada is an upgrade in that search is questionable.

For a different team, that doesn't need as much of a perimeter threat from their point guard, Canada could be a good fit, but as I intimated, I don't see Canada as much of an upgrade from Allen.



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PostPosted: 07/17/17 10:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

R. Allen is supposed to be our 3pt specialist, but her shot just isn't there. Maybe this could be where Schimmel might squeeze herself onto the roster next season.



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