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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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 Posted: 06/21/17 8:58 am ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
So 11 out of twelve can't inflate the numbers enough to beat last years inflated numbers.
"Hello Lisa, we have a problem." |
The league low was in 2015 when the league averaged just 7,318 a game. They should easily got over 7,000; but to get anywhere near 7,400 just doesn't seem likely. Those Dallas & Atlanta numbers are what is really hurting the league.
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josephkramer44
Joined: 23 Aug 2016
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| Posted: 06/21/17 9:29 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
So 11 out of twelve can't inflate the numbers enough to beat last years inflated numbers.
"Hello Lisa, we have a problem." |
I have always thought that Ms. Borders was full of hot air and lofty catchy cliche slogans but very weak on substance and numbers. I think she said over a million viewers watched the ESPN opener and that obviously is false. I might be judging her too harshly but still.
On the same note I just don't understand why LA isn't drawing. They just won the championship in dramatic fashion and watching their games almost all of the seating is empty, even on the lower levels. In a huge metropolitan area like LA they can't do better? I just don't understand why.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 06/21/17 11:22 pm ::: |
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I wouldn't be surprised if some of the sudden drop in attendance is due to the BLM protest.Multiple players on a number of teams were very outspoken about the high profile police shootings/ killings.
Top reasons for drop in attendance:
1.BLM protest
2.Players retiring(Catchings,Taylor)
3.Lack of interest(Dal,Atl)
4.Players getting traded/playing for new teams(EDD,Dupree,Sims,Toliver)
5.Players sitting out for various reasons(Angel,Bonner)
6.Players showing up late.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 06/28/17 4:41 pm ::: |
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A lot of good crowds this past week. Glad to see the Lynx playing at the Xcel Center hasn't hurt their attendance. Without Atlanta & Dallas, the league would be averaging 7,544.
Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(6) - 9,584 (-54)
2. Phoenix Mercury(6) - 9,357 (-995)
3. Minnesota Lynx(6) - 9,193 (-73)
4. New York Liberty(8) - 9,025 (-700)
5. San Antonio Stars(6) - 6,781 (+396)
6. Seattle Storm(8) - 6,756 (-474)
7. Indiana Fever(7) - 6,675 (-1,900)
8. Washington Mystics(8) - 6,326 (-603)
9. Chicago Sky(7) - 6,081 (-928)
10. Connecticut Sun(5) - 5,963 (+126)
11. Atlanta Dream(4) - 4,291 (-1,324)
12. Dallas Wings(8) - 3,674 (-1,624)
WNBA Average(79) - 6,987 (-667)
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josephkramer44
Joined: 23 Aug 2016
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| Posted: 06/28/17 7:41 pm ::: |
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| I think San Antonio might have become the league's worst inflation case this year. Is there anyone who thinks they are drawing more than 2k per game right now? Too bad too, because San Antonio has become a real big basketball town (thanks in no small part to the continued success of the Spurs).
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 7671
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 06/28/17 8:14 pm ::: |
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| josephkramer44 wrote: |
| I think San Antonio might have become the league's worst inflation case this year. Is there anyone who thinks they are drawing more than 2k per game right now? Too bad too, because San Antonio has become a real big basketball town (thanks in no small part to the continued success of the Spurs). |
Id say 4K at the max i was at the game last week when they played My Wings But 6K is just disrespectful
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 07/05/17 7:32 am ::: |
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Slight dip this past week due to the holiday weekend. We'll see how the crowds look this coming week/weekend.
Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)
1. Phoenix Mercury(7) - 9,638 (-713)
2. Los Angeles Sparks(7) - 9,527 (-111)
3. Minnesota Lynx(6) - 9,193 (-73)
4. New York Liberty(8) - 9,025 (-700)
5. Seattle Storm(8) - 6,756 (-474)
6. Indiana Fever(8) - 6,650 (-1,925)
7. San Antonio Stars(7) - 6,518 (+133)
8. Connecticut Sun(6) - 6,414 (+577)
9. Washington Mystics(9) - 6,233 (-696)
10. Chicago Sky(7) - 6,081 (-928)
11. Atlanta Dream(6) - 4,134 (-1,480)
12. Dallas Wings(9) - 3,715 (-1,583)
WNBA Average(88) - 6,929 (-725)
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 07/05/17 10:05 am ::: |
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NY, LA, PH and MN all averaging over 9k. I was trying to look at the crowds from Live Access but its pretty hard. Some of the teams (DC, Atl, SA, DAL) make it pretty easy to see a lot of empty seats. NY is hard to tell how many empty seats, but LA, PH and MN do seem have "real" crowds. My guess is the 4 top teams aren't inflating the numbers a lot while many if not most of the other teams are. Do fans of these teams think their numbers seem realistic? How about the rest of the teams?
I'm pretty sure the published Dream numbers are a dream.....
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adamj95
Joined: 09 May 2014
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| Posted: 07/05/17 12:00 pm ::: |
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| Very impressive that the Lynx are -73 in a different building.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 07/05/17 12:21 pm ::: |
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| adamj95 wrote: |
| Very impressive that the Lynx are -73 in a different building. |
I am, too.
The three teams that worry me the most are Atlanta, Dallas & Chicago. I wouldn't worry about the Stars as the Spurs seem committed to the team. The Sky ownership always seems positive in his interviews and talks about how close they are to turning a profit. The Dream & Wings are drawing flies right now. I'd be worried about the Dream after 2018. So do they go back to Phillips Arena or does the owner pull the plug? Do the Wings ownership move the team again or are they done after another year or so in Dallas drawing only 3k a game?
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miller40
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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| Posted: 07/05/17 12:53 pm ::: |
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| I wish there were stats on season ticket holder renewal.
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josephkramer44
Joined: 23 Aug 2016
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| Posted: 07/05/17 6:17 pm ::: |
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Minnesota's moving from the Target to the Excel center is like trading in your BMW for a Mercedes. Both are about as accessible as one another and both are very modern facilities, which is great for everyone concerned. MPLS/St. Paul are literally one city. When I was at the U there I lived in MPLS but walked literally one city block and was in St. Paul. No reason to see their attendance decline.
While studying attendance figures I took a close look at Phoenix's attendance and their facility. A careful counting of Talking Stick Arena's lower lever and Sky boxes (capacity of 20 each and around 106) shows a seating capacity of around 9,500 or so. When watching their games I notice (Minnesota's as well) that the end of the courts tend to be very empty and the side the camera's are not on tend to be less occupied (I can't put a real percentage on it). Watching a Phoenix game it is safe to say about 1/3 to 2/5 of the seats are empty in the lower area (and most of the sky boxes appear empty). So even Phoenix's number are greatly inflated. One benefit though is that Phoenix is one of the few areas in the nation where people want to be inside during the summer. Nuck Nuck Nuck.
Both Minnesota and Phoenix also give away significant numbers of tickets. Phoenix has an arrangement with Fry's electronics that offer free tickets for a modest amount of money spent there and there is also an arrangement with the AZ lottery for free tickets among other things. One thing I noticed last there was that both team's announced attendances for playoff games was much much lower than the season average. The conclusion I draw from that is that there is less time to distribute free/cheaper tickets that hurts the draw significantly.
NY's attendance is very hard to gauge due to the dark design of the arena. I can never accurately gauge LA's because everyone there is always fashionably late (traditional in LA sports). The one team I see a BIG positive increases in attendance in is Washington, despite the lower announced numbers. Good for Washington. I still sense a lack of respect for the franchise from the people who own it though.
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 3960
Location: QUEENS!!!!
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| Posted: 07/05/17 7:00 pm ::: |
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| josephkramer44 wrote: |
| NY's attendance is very hard to gauge due to the dark design of the arena. I can never accurately gauge LA's because everyone there is always fashionably late (traditional in LA sports). The one team I see a BIG positive increases in attendance in is Washington, despite the lower announced numbers. Good for Washington. I still sense a lack of respect for the franchise from the people who own it though. |
The Libs use a $15 GA scheme...which are the upper endcourts which normally get packed during the first half then disperse to snatch lower seats at the half.
The bench side (which the TV shoots to) is where most STH are packed...it gets about 3/4 full on a bad day (7-8k) packed on a 9k
2 quirks...there are 4 rows that are parts of suites that cannot be sold right near courtside, giving an odd swatch of empty seats and a corner non tv section which even on days they spillover into the upper deck that always has empty seats at all time...we believe this may be the work of scalpers.
yes there are games like pride night and playoffs where street selling is a nusance (!) lol
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Location: Dallas , Texas
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 07/16/17 7:47 pm ::: |
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Updated numbers. Sorry for the delay, was away last week. These numbers are up to and including all of today's games. Lots of good crowds the past week and a half. Lots of camps days, too.
Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(8) - 9,576 (-62)
2. Phoenix Mercury(11) - 9,469 (-882)
3. Minnesota Lynx(8) - 9,375 (+109)
4. New York Liberty(10) - 9,174 (-550)
5. Indiana Fever(10) - 7,349 (-1,226)
6. Chicago Sky(9) - 7,068 (+59)
7. Seattle Storm(12) - 6,948 (-282)
8. Connecticut Sun(8) - 6,364 (+527)
9. San Antonio Stars(9) - 6,341 (-44)
10. Washington Mystics(9) - 6,233 (-696)
11. Atlanta Dream(8) - 4,023 (-1,592)
12. Dallas Wings(11) - 3,698 (-1,600)
WNBA Average(113) - 7,123 (-531)
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josephkramer44
Joined: 23 Aug 2016
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| Posted: 07/16/17 11:33 pm ::: |
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| Nothing to apologize for. I might as well say thank you for everyone. The data you provide us with here is much appreciated. Thanks for your time.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 07/22/17 8:19 am ::: |
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Numbers at the All-Star break. 6 huge camp day crowds gave those teams a nice bump as well as a solid bump in the league average. The average attendance for this week was: 12,542. The league average without Atlanta & Dallas is 8,211.
Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(10) - 10,416 (+778)
2. Minnesota Lynx(9) - 10,315 (+1,049)
3. New York Liberty(11) - 9,926 (+202)
4. Phoenix Mercury(12) - 9,627 (-724)
5. Indiana Fever(10) - 7,349 (-1,226)
6. Washington Mystics(10) - 7,170 (+241)
7. Chicago Sky(9) - 7,068 (+59)
8. Seattle Storm(13) - 7,056 (-174)
9. San Antonio Stars(10) - 6,438 (+53)
10. Connecticut Sun(8) - 6,364 (+527)
11. Atlanta Dream(9) - 4,399 (-1,215)
12. Dallas Wings(11) - 3,698 (-1,600)
WNBA Average(122) - 7,523 (-131)
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 07/22/17 10:12 am ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
Numbers at the All-Star break. 6 huge camp day crowds gave those teams a nice bump as well as a solid bump in the league average. The average attendance for this week was: 12,542. The league average without Atlanta & Dallas is 8,211.
Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(10) - 10,416 (+778)
2. Minnesota Lynx(9) - 10,315 (+1,049)
3. New York Liberty(11) - 9,926 (+202)
4. Phoenix Mercury(12) - 9,627 (-724)
5. Indiana Fever(10) - 7,349 (-1,226)
6. Washington Mystics(10) - 7,170 (+241)
7. Chicago Sky(9) - 7,068 (+59)
8. Seattle Storm(13) - 7,056 (-174)
9. San Antonio Stars(10) - 6,438 (+53)
10. Connecticut Sun( - 6,364 (+527)
11. Atlanta Dream(9) - 4,399 (-1,215)
12. Dallas Wings(11) - 3,698 (-1,600)
WNBA Average(122) - 7,523 (-131)
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The decline for Indiana and Atlanta make sense, but Dallas is troubling ... just 3,698 announced? That means probably 2,000 in the arena ...
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 07/22/17 10:28 am ::: |
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| I think Dream fans just need some time off to rest. We've had year after year of 12 months of basketball in the city with the Hawks and Dream. Our bodies and vocal chords are just getting worn out. Just so long as nobody calls them the "Failing Atlanta Dream" I'm ok.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 07/22/17 10:49 am ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| I think Dream fans just need some time off to rest. We've had year after year of 12 months of basketball in the city with the Hawks and Dream. Our bodies and vocal chords are just getting worn out. Just so long as nobody calls them the "Failing Atlanta Dream" I'm ok. |
McCamish is a pain in the ass to get to. The traffic in that area is horrific and the closest MARTA station (Midtown) is close to a mile walk.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 07/22/17 11:03 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
| I think Dream fans just need some time off to rest. We've had year after year of 12 months of basketball in the city with the Hawks and Dream. Our bodies and vocal chords are just getting worn out. Just so long as nobody calls them the "Failing Atlanta Dream" I'm ok. |
McCamish is a pain in the ass to get to. The traffic in that area is horrific and the closest MARTA station (Midtown) is close to a mile walk. |
I'm just hoping the owners are willing to take a hit these two seasons they're at McCamish. I'm sure the rent is cheaper, but still.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 07/22/17 12:03 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
| I think Dream fans just need some time off to rest. We've had year after year of 12 months of basketball in the city with the Hawks and Dream. Our bodies and vocal chords are just getting worn out. Just so long as nobody calls them the "Failing Atlanta Dream" I'm ok. |
McCamish is a pain in the ass to get to. The traffic in that area is horrific and the closest MARTA station (Midtown) is close to a mile walk. |
For me (coming down 400 to 85/75) it cuts out the last few miles which typically takes the most time to get to the arena. I may be one of the few that benefits from the location. In case you weren't aware of it, there is a good, cheap, parking lot just on the other side of 85 on 10th St underneath the student housing building. I bought parking passes, so I'm not sure how it has been this season but in the past I parked there and space was always available.
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MuneravenMN
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Joined: 01 Jun 2008
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| Posted: 07/22/17 3:22 pm ::: Give-away Tickets |
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It has been my impression that the Lynx give away far less tickets than they used to.
Additionally the cost of tickets has gone up and up for the Lynx. I can go to a Minnesota Twins game for far less than I pay for Lynx tickets.
The big numbers attending Lynx games is amazing. In a city where people want to be outside in summer, with plenty of competition from other athletic teams, and without being the cheapest game in town, the Lynx still bring the crowds.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 07/22/17 3:41 pm ::: |
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| Liberty tickets prices went up this season, too. Fans are still showing up. My once $34 ticket is now $48. I think the general admission seats went up, too. I'm very impressed with the Lynx's numbers considering they're not playing at Target Center.
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josephkramer44
Joined: 23 Aug 2016
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| Posted: 07/23/17 12:14 pm ::: |
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| The Lynx still give away an EXTREMELY large number of tickets. They don't do anywhere near as many team promotions but rather they distribute them gratis to numerous organizations and businesses via the office. One of the better indicators of how many free tickets a team gives away is gauging the attendance of their playoff games vs the regular season games. Lynx playoff games see a very steep decline in attendance from regular season games, in part due to the fact there is not enough time to distribute additional tickets.
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Its like your wishing it happens.