View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22474 Location: NJ
Back to top |
Posted: 06/26/17 8:59 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
before we jump the gun on adding four teams, let's also be real and think that either Dallas or Atlanta might get relocated in a few years.
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
|
|
Jet Jaguar
Joined: 11 Feb 2014 Posts: 1111
Back to top |
Posted: 06/26/17 9:12 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
The irony is there is actually plenty of talent for mass expansion of the league, yet there are players currently in the league who have no business being on a WNBA roster (even if there was expansion).
_________________ Oderint dum metuant - Let them hate, so long as they fear
|
|
NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
Back to top |
Posted: 06/26/17 9:51 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
J-Spoon wrote: |
I like the original poster bold vision.
I think in 2020 to 2024 if all goes well my watered down version would be a sixteen team league with 4 conferences. I'm going to list two kind of stars who can man each team in say 2020 and still have a competitive league and I'll throw in a 3rd for fun and a 4th decent player who might still be around to prove that with new talent and better distribution there is plenty of talent for 16 decent teams
North East
NY Liberty (Charles/Rodgers/Canada/Stokes)
Conn Sun (C. Ogwumike/J. Jones/KLS/A. Thomas)
Boston Shamrocks (Hayes/N. Collier/G. Williams/Dolson)
Washington Mystics (EDD/L. Brown/A. Stevens/Meeseman)
Central
Indy Fever (B. Turner/T. Mitchell/Ogabowle (Sp)/Faulkner)
Chicago Sky (Deshields/GloJo/K. Brown/K. Flahrety)
Cleveland Rockers (K. Mitchell/M. Russell/Hill/Mavunga)
Minn Lynx (Moore/Fowles/Plum/M. Williams)
South
Atl Dream (McCoughtry/E. Williams/T. Mcgowan (Sp)/Westbrook)
Dallas Wings (Diggins/Cambage/A. Gray/Powers)
SA Stars (Jefferson/A. Wilson/Coates/I. Harrison)
PX Mercury (Griner/Sims/Bonner/D-Rob)
Pacific
Seattle Storm (Stewart/Loyd/Vandrsloot/Boyette)
LA Sparks (C. Gray/Vadeeva/C. Parker/Toliver)
San Francisco Treat (N. Ogwumike/Anigwe/Clarendon/Nurse)
Las Vegas JackPot or Sacramento Monarchs (McBride/Lavender/Joyner-Holmes/Ionesco/)
You play your division mates 4 times (12 games) all other teams twice (24 games) for a total of 36 team. Division winners get top four seed in the playoffs and home court next four best records fill out 5-8/ So you develop local rivalries and winning your division has meaning.
OK got a little carried away with the imagination game but it was fun |
San Francisco Treat! πππππππππ
Team name of the year.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
|
|
sigur3
Joined: 18 Jun 2013 Posts: 6191 Location: Chicago-ish
Back to top |
Posted: 06/26/17 10:21 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
A team with both Diamond and GloJo on it, kill me now
|
|
caune
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 17919 Location: Valley of the Bun
Back to top |
Posted: 06/27/17 7:12 am ::: Re: How exciting would this be... |
Reply |
|
basketballologist wrote: |
..... if this was the WNBA format
EASTERN CONFERENCE:
Atlantic Division:
- Connecticut Sun
- New York Liberty
- Philadelphia Passion
- Washington Mystics
Central Division:
- Chicago Sky
- Cleveland Rockers
- Detroit Shock
- Indiana Fever
Southeast Division:
- Atlanta Dream
- Charlotte Sting
- Orlando Miracle
- Miami Sol
WESTERN CONFERENCE:
Northwest Division:
- Denver Gold
- Minnesota Lynx
- Seattle Stormhttp://boards.rebkell.net/posting.php?mode=quote&p=1462479
- Utah Starzz
Pacific Division:
- Los Angeles Sparks
- Phoenix Mercury
- Portland Fire
- Sacramento Monarchs
Southwest Division:
- Dallas Wings
- Houston Comets
- San Antonio Stars
- Tulsa Twist
60 game season (Division rivals meet 4 times, Conference rivals outside the division meet 3 times, Non-conference rivals meet 2 times)
16 team playoffs: (Best of 3 Conference Semifinals and Finals, Best of 5 WNBA finals)
The only back to back games will be vs. division foe
8 team lottery. No team can win the #1 pick in consecutive years.
4 round draft (96 picks overall)
13 team roster (11 active, 2 inactive)
Draft is the week following the NCAA Finals
Training Camp start a week after the draft
Regular Season Scheduling is from (May 1st - September 31st)
Playoff Start (October)
DO YALL THINK THIS WOULD BE A GOOD LEAGUE? |
No. It's too much.
_________________ Because there is only one Diana Taurasi.
@Phoenix Mercury
|
|
Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24355 Location: London
Back to top |
Posted: 06/27/17 7:23 am ::: |
Reply |
|
I do think it'd be interesting how quickly we'd adjust to a 'new normal' of 'good' players/teams and 'bad' players/teams. The problem with expansion is it's pretty hard to tell whether the dilution to the player pool has made a meaningful difference to the overall quality, because you're not diluting evenly. It's not like you're adding a player to the end of every bench for every new team, or throwing them all in a big pot and redrafting. Typically you're having an expansion draft of weak players, and creating a couple of terrible teams who'll take at least two or three years to even become mediocre. So how the hell do you tell what it's realistically doing to the talent pool?
If there was a way to add 4+ teams to the league and even out the players, I don't think the entertainment level would drop that much, to be honest. We'd adapt, and I think very, very few people would stop watching while declaring "the games were so much better before all that expansion!" I think we'd all adapt pretty quickly.
Of course, the main impediment to expansion is finding committed owners who want to put the money in (and continue doing so in future years). It's not really about the players or the impact on the product. |
|
WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12537 Location: Dallas , Texas
Back to top |
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66916 Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
Posted: 06/27/17 8:54 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Richyyy wrote: |
If there was a way to add 4+ teams to the league and even out the players, I don't think the entertainment level would drop that much, to be honest. We'd adapt, and I think very, very few people would stop watching while declaring "the games were so much better before all that expansion!" I think we'd all adapt pretty quickly. |
Maybe. When the W added four teams in 2000, attendance and ratings started a slide that continues to the present.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
Back to top |
Posted: 06/27/17 10:04 am ::: |
Reply |
|
I'm not sure I understand what appears to be the underlying premise, that more teams in a league makes the league more "exciting".
I have witnessed expansion in every major pro sports league over the years. I don't recall a single instance in which the league became more "exciting" just by becoming bigger. Maybe it was appreciated by and more available to fans in the locations of the new franchises, but for fans in locations of existing franchises or in locations without franchises I don't recall any increase in "excitement". Nor do I understand why mere growth should be expected to improve the quality of the game experience.
Would baseball truly be any less interesting or exciting if the Rockies, Marlins, Diamondbacks, and Rays had never been added? It improved access for fans in those four cities (to the extent there are any, which is dubious for the two Florida franchises). But did it somehow improve the quality or excitement level of Major League Baseball just by adding four teams? I'm sceptical.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66916 Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
Posted: 06/27/17 10:20 am ::: |
Reply |
|
ArtBest23 wrote: |
I'm not sure I understand what appears to be the underlying premise, that more teams in a league makes the league more "exciting". |
It gives you more variety of opponents, instead of seeing the same teams all the time. More teams makes scheduling easier, so the W can put some effort into eliminating back-to-backs. It makes it more exciting for gamblers and fantasy players, who will get fewer days with one game or no games.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
Back to top |
Posted: 06/27/17 10:57 am ::: |
Reply |
|
pilight wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
I'm not sure I understand what appears to be the underlying premise, that more teams in a league makes the league more "exciting". |
It gives you more variety of opponents, instead of seeing the same teams all the time. More teams makes scheduling easier, so the W can put some effort into eliminating back-to-backs. It makes it more exciting for gamblers and fantasy players, who will get fewer days with one game or no games. |
I repeat, would baseball truly be any less interesting or exciting if the Rockies, Marlins, Diamondbacks, and Rays had never been added? I'm waiting for an answer.
That gamblers have more games to bet on simply means there's more volume. It has nothing to do with the league being better or more exciting. Gamblers never have any problem finding something to bet on.
I don't see college fans being upset that their teams spend three months just playing against the same boring old nine, eleven, thirteen or fourteen opponents. I don't see any basis for the assertion that more opponents makes things more exciting. To the extent it dilutes rivalries, it does just the opposite.
And you'll also have to explain your theory that having more teams eliminates at all the dynamics that prompt the league to schedule back to back games.
I think you'll have to come up with some better reasons.
|
|
Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24355 Location: London
Back to top |
Posted: 06/27/17 10:59 am ::: |
Reply |
|
I would also argue that the league doesn't need 60 games. The implications of that - that the WNBA is thriving financially, can sell tickets for that many games, that players wouldn't even bother to go overseas because they'd be making so much in the US etc. - would be great. But I generally think that US sports play way, way, way too many games. Especially when you consider that all the regular season is doing is deciding playoff participation/position, not the actual final standings and champion of the season.
Frankly, given the choice, I'd rather see the NBA season reduced down closer to 34 games than the WNBA pushed up towards 82. |
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66916 Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
Posted: 06/27/17 11:35 am ::: |
Reply |
|
ArtBest23 wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
I'm not sure I understand what appears to be the underlying premise, that more teams in a league makes the league more "exciting". |
It gives you more variety of opponents, instead of seeing the same teams all the time. More teams makes scheduling easier, so the W can put some effort into eliminating back-to-backs. It makes it more exciting for gamblers and fantasy players, who will get fewer days with one game or no games. |
I repeat, would baseball truly be any less interesting or exciting if the Rockies, Marlins, Diamondbacks, and Rays had never been added? I'm waiting for an answer. |
You do get diminishing returns. IMO, the ideal size of the league is 16 teams. The NBA, NFL, and MLB have over-expanded.
Quote: |
That gamblers have more games to bet on simply means there's more volume. It has nothing to do with the league being better or more exciting. Gamblers never have any problem finding something to bet on. |
We don't want them looking for other things to bet on. We want them driving interest in the W.
Quote: |
I don't see college fans being upset that their teams spend three months just playing against the same boring old nine, eleven, thirteen or fourteen opponents. I don't see any basis for the assertion that more opponents makes things more exciting. To the extent it dilutes rivalries, it does just the opposite. |
They do that after getting a non-conference season full of variety. And again, there is a point of diminishing returns. A few years ago in the NFL the Lions played in Cincinnati. It was the first time they had been there in 17 years. That's a sign you've gone too far.
Quote: |
And you'll also have to explain your theory that having more teams eliminates at all the dynamics that prompt the league to schedule back to back games. |
More available home dates makes it easier to avoid having teams play on consecutive days. Of course the league could avoid back-to-backs now if they really wanted to...
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
StevenHW
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 10983 Location: Sacramento, California
Back to top |
Posted: 06/27/17 12:53 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I have no problem or concern about whether or not the WNBA has enough talent for expansion of teams.
I'm more concerned about finding owners who are willing to invest in a WNBA team and keep it running.
Frankly, I get tired of reading/hearing about which cities should get a WNBA team. A city does not "own" a WNBA franchise. People or groups do. I would be far more interested in which persons should be interested in getting a WNBA team started.
There is also another concern: expansion means the existing teams have to give up a certain player. If there are more than one team expanding in a year, make that multiple players from that same team would be allowed to be taken. And I'm not sure if current teams are willing to give up a player that easily.
_________________ "The more I see of the moneyed classes, the more I understand the guillotine." -- George Bernard Shaw
|
|
ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11148
Back to top |
Posted: 06/27/17 4:17 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Quote: |
Are the cuts from WNBA training camps all athletic defenders who can't shoot? |
Almost exclusively.
_________________ OαΉ TΔre TuttΔre Ture SvΔhΔ
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9624
Back to top |
Posted: 06/27/17 5:10 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
ClayK wrote: |
Quote: |
Are the cuts from WNBA training camps all athletic defenders who can't shoot? |
Almost exclusively. |
I don't know anything about many of the players cut this year, but we had:
Code: |
2017 Transactions
Los Angeles Weisner, Jamie Waived
Chicago Jankoska, Tori Waived
Indiana Lucas, Maggie Waived
Minnesota Osahor, Chantel Waived
New York Gemelos, Jacki Waived
Atlanta Jarry, Rachel Waived
Los Angeles Ruef, Mikaela Waived
Los Angeles Samuelson, Karlie Waived
Minnesota Ting, Shao Waived
Phoenix Plouffe, Katherine Waived
Washington Kraker, Mehryn Waived
Washington Malott, Ally Waived
Los Angeles Dornstauder, Quinn Waived
San Antonio Peters, Haley Waived
Dallas Phillips, Erin Waived
Minnesota Mack, Moriah Waived
Phoenix Alleyne, Jillian Waived
Atlanta Knight, Whitney Waived
Los Angeles Go, Ah-Ra Waived
Seattle OβHea, Jenna Waived
San Antonio Day, Briana Waived |
|
|
GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 14109
Back to top |
Posted: 06/27/17 10:20 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
ClayK wrote: |
Quote: |
Are the cuts from WNBA training camps all athletic defenders who can't shoot? |
Almost exclusively. |
There are certainly players that fit that bill that get cut from WNBA training camps, but that description doesn't fit a majority of the players that do get cut from training camps.
|
|
GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 14109
Back to top |
Posted: 06/27/17 10:24 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
The only way it would work to expand the teams is to redraft the entire league. Even if you say each team can only protect 4 players, I think it will still make it difficult for the lower teams and expansion teams to rise to the top because the top teams, Minnesota, LA, Washington, New York, Phoenix will still have their cores intact.
|
|
MuneravenMN Champion Tipster
Joined: 01 Jun 2008 Posts: 3990
Back to top |
Posted: 06/28/17 4:52 pm ::: Too Many Divisions |
Reply |
|
Minnesota belongs in the Midwest. We are a Midwestern State and all our teams have rivalries with other Midwestern teams.
West
LA
San Fran
Seattle
Phoenix
Midwest
Chicago
Minnesota
Cleveland
Indiana
East
NY
Connecticut
D.C.
Philly
South
Dallas
San Antonio
Atlanta
Tennessee
_________________ Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character.
--John Wooden
|
|
toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22474 Location: NJ
Back to top |
Posted: 06/28/17 5:05 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
personally, I see the next four cities as Portland, San Francisco, Cleveland & Tennessee.
EAST
New York
Connecticut
Washington
Atlanta
CENTRAL
Chicago
Indiana
Cleveland
Tennessee
MIDWEST
Phoenix
Dallas
San Antonio
Minnesota
WEST
Seattle
Portland
San Francisco
Los Angeles
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
|
|
toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22474 Location: NJ
Back to top |
Posted: 07/01/17 3:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I was thinking today that Steph Curry's new $201 million contract would cover about the fees for 10 expansion teams and every player's salary for the next five years.
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
|
|
SDHoops
Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 1183
Back to top |
Posted: 07/02/17 1:57 am ::: |
Reply |
|
toad455 wrote: |
I was thinking today that Steph Curry's new $201 million contract would cover about the fees for 10 expansion teams and every player's salary for the next five years. |
NBA already subsidizes the W enough. The W needs to market to the right people..look at the following that the show 'Orange is the New Black' has or musical girl groups over the years have had. There is a market, it just seems like they try so hard to sell to the trolls who will never respect women and is like beating a dead horse, IMHO. Getting enough fans to open upperbowls every game would be a step.
|
|
Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
Back to top |
Posted: 07/02/17 7:34 am ::: |
Reply |
|
I think the whole business model is wrong. They need to get rid of the salary cap and make this into a league where billionaires compete against each other to buy championships. We have plenty of vain, arrogant, egomaniac billionaires. It might also keep them busy enough to stay away from other activities where they can do a lot more harm.
|
|
|
|