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Kelsey Plum, a bust or too early? |
Yes |
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19% |
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Too early to tell |
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71% |
[ 59 ] |
No |
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9% |
[ 8 ] |
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Total Votes : 83 |
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11187
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12572 Location: Dallas , Texas
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12572 Location: Dallas , Texas
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bcdawg04
Joined: 12 Apr 2016 Posts: 575 Location: Seattle
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Posted: 06/21/17 11:40 am ::: |
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miller40 wrote: |
WNBA 09 wrote: |
I dont want to be the Lady Plum killer but how long will this injury be the reason for her less than stellar rookie season ? If its that bad then maybe she should just shut it down ? After ASG break will this still be a factor if she continues to struggle ? Ijs |
I tend to agreee. If they aren't winning any games with their #1 pick playing, and if this injury is so bad, shut her down and get her healthy and not risk further (or long term) damage. |
When Woodward asked Plum about returning at less than 100%, Plum said, "I trust the San Antonio team doctors. I trust that they have my best interests in mind." So she trusts that her doctors believe she is not risking long term damage by playing while still rehabbing.
Just like at UW, when she played on a torn meniscus for half of her sophomore year--team doctors said then that she wasn't risking further injury and she could wait until the offseason to have surgery. That worked out all right.
Granted, these are different doctors now, but there is so much going on behind the scenes in San Antonio that I just don't know about. I'm not going to diagnose her from here. If she trusts the San Antonio doctors, then I do too. She always knew it would be a challenging transition. It's unfortunate that she got injured on top of coming in to the least talented team in the league, at that team's position of strength, with a first year head coach (plus Jefferson's injury). I am confident, however, that all of this will just drive her to work harder.
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SDHoops
Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 1183
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Posted: 06/21/17 12:21 pm ::: |
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VJ if you read this; DONT GIVE INTO PRESSURE AND PLAY PLUM JUST BECAUSE IDIOTS SAY SO! Plum can't score for a winless team but the Pluminatirs seem to think she's the next Bird in waiting for Seattle. Waste of floor space if you ask me smh
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12572 Location: Dallas , Texas
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9711
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Posted: 06/22/17 7:41 pm ::: |
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In this 57 point game where she set the scoring record she scored on:
13 foul shots
3 open threes from a pass
3 threes from dribble, stop, shoot
2 short jumpers
1 floater
3 driving right-handed layups wth defender
5 driving left-handed layups with defender
1 uncovered right-hand layup
1 long lefty layup-ish shot in the paint with defender
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 06/22/17 8:24 pm ::: |
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So is it too early to say Washington Huskie PG and No. 1 Pick Markelle Fulz is a bust?
Has it ever happened before that two players from the same school went No. 1 in the NBA and WNBA draft?
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 4255
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Posted: 06/22/17 8:38 pm ::: |
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Assuming the Fenerbahce rumors are true, Kelsey is certainly not taking a break in the fall. There may be no higher pressure team to play for out there. As if her social media does not already get bombarded enough. |
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bcdawg04
Joined: 12 Apr 2016 Posts: 575 Location: Seattle
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Posted: 06/22/17 8:54 pm ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
Has it ever happened before that two players from the same school went No. 1 in the NBA and WNBA draft? |
No. They have never even come from the same conference.
Washington Becomes First School Produce Top Pick In NBA And WNBA Drafts
Fultz may have been a one-and-done on one of the worst teams in school history and Plum is struggling as a pro now, but while at UW, they were nothing but class. They will be remembered as true Dawgs.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67052 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 06/22/17 9:31 pm ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
Has it ever happened before that two players from the same school went No. 1 in the NBA and WNBA draft? |
Not in the same year. Duke, Louisville, LSU, Minnesota, and Notre Dame have had #1 picks in both the NBA and WNBA drafts in different years.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9711
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Posted: 06/23/17 3:26 am ::: |
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bcdawg04
Joined: 12 Apr 2016 Posts: 575 Location: Seattle
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9711
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Posted: 06/26/17 5:47 am ::: Re: Kelsey Plum |
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Michelle89 wrote: |
Hmm there have been a lot of pointguards that struggle in their first couple of seasons before they turn it around. Its just not Hammon. A lot of people say it takes pointguards about 3 years to really come into their own. I think Vandersloot is a pretty good example of that. There was a lot of hype about her but it took her a while |
And I don't think Plum played point guard for at least half of her college career (she is referred to as a high school point guard by one Hoopgurlz article). For her freshman and sophomore years, I believe Jazmine Davis was the point guard. For her junior year I think Alexus Atchley may have technically been considered the point guard, at least bringing the ball up, with Plum as a ball-dominant two. Last year Aarion McDonald may have been a partial point guard for the 24mpg she was in, again as far as bringing the ball up (with Plum still ball-dominant) Maybe a Husky fan can confirm or correct that. Plum's A/TO ratio got a lot better her senior year, so I think she'd be a lot farther along if she had been a true point guard for 4 years of college.
Plum's assists took a jump after Davis graduated at the end of her sophomore year but her assist stats in college pale to Vandersloots WCC stats so she seems to have a bigger hill to climb than Vandersloot with regard to becoming a good point guard:
Code: |
Kelsey Plum
Year ast to Apg A/TO
2013-14 93 98 2.74 0.95
2014-15 108 91 3.27 1.19
2015-16 154 159 4.16 0.97
2016-17 168 88 4.80 1.91
Total 523 436 3.76 1.20 |
Code: |
Courney Vandersloot
Year ast to APG A/TO
2007-08 191 103 5.62 1.85
2008-09 239 120 7.47 1.99
2009-10 321 145 9.44 2.21
2010-11 367 119 10.19 3.08
Total 1118 487 8.22 2.30
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One thing I noticed in looking at Plum's college stats is that she never missed a game and started every game. And her average minutes per game were 37.38. Good foundation for setting an all-time record.
Last edited by tfan on 06/26/17 6:59 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010 Posts: 16464 Location: Holland
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Posted: 06/26/17 6:55 am ::: Re: Kelsey Plum |
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tfan wrote: |
Michelle89 wrote: |
Hmm there have been a lot of pointguards that struggle in their first couple of seasons before they turn it around. Its just not Hammon. A lot of people say it takes pointguards about 3 years to really come into their own. I think Vandersloot is a pretty good example of that. There was a lot of hype about her but it took her a while |
And I don't think Plum played point guard for at least half of her college career (she is referred to as a high school point guard by one Hoopgurlz article). For her freshman and sophomore years, I believe Jazmine Davis was the point guard. For her junior year I think Alexus Atchley may have technically been considered the point guard, with Plum as a ball-dominant two. Last year Aarion McDonald seemed to be more of the point guard for the 24mpg she was in, at least as far as bringing the ball up (with Plum still ball-dominant) Maybe a Husky fan can confirm or correct that. Plum's A/TO ratio got a lot better her senior year, so maybe she was more an actual point guard last season.
Plum's assists took a jump after Davis graduated at the end of her sophomore year but her assist stats in college pale to Vandersloots WCC stats so she seems to have a bigger hill to climb than Vandersloot with regard to becoming a good point guard:
Code: |
Kelsey Plum
Year ast to Apg A/TO
2013-14 93 98 2.74 0.95
2014-15 108 91 3.27 1.19
2015-16 154 159 4.16 0.97
2016-17 168 88 4.80 1.91
Total 523 436 3.76 1.20 |
Code: |
Courney Vandersloot
Year ast to APG A/TO
2007-08 191 103 5.62 1.85
2008-09 239 120 7.47 1.99
2009-10 321 145 9.44 2.21
2010-11 367 119 10.19 3.08
Total 1118 487 8.22 2.30
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One thing I noticed in looking at Plum's college stats is that she never missed a game and started every game. And her average minutes per game were 37.38. Good foundation for setting an all-time record. |
Your post proves even more that she needs time to grow and adjust to playing the pointguard position in the WNBA. That is why i think the Stars should play Jefferson and Plum together more. They can both spot up and shoot so let them take turns bringing the ball up
_________________ "Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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Hoops9092
Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 1639
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Posted: 06/26/17 10:10 am ::: |
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I feel for Kelsey. Really hope she can turn this around. I remember Nicole Powell having a horrible first year after being considered one of the big 3 in her 2004 draft class, then after a trade to Sacramento she really turned it up.
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bcdawg04
Joined: 12 Apr 2016 Posts: 575 Location: Seattle
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Posted: 06/26/17 7:14 pm ::: Re: Kelsey Plum |
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tfan wrote: |
And I don't think Plum played point guard for at least half of her college career (she is referred to as a high school point guard by one Hoopgurlz article). For her freshman and sophomore years, I believe Jazmine Davis was the point guard. For her junior year I think Alexus Atchley may have technically been considered the point guard, at least bringing the ball up, with Plum as a ball-dominant two. Last year Aarion McDonald may have been a partial point guard for the 24mpg she was in, again as far as bringing the ball up (with Plum still ball-dominant) Maybe a Husky fan can confirm or correct that. |
For sure, during Plum's sophomore year, Jaz Davis was primarily the point guard. During Plum's freshman year, she and Davis played alongside true point guard Mercedes Wetmore. As for Plum's junior and senior years...I'm not sure it is so straight forward. Atchley, imo, mostly played the 2-guard, though they both handled the ball. Last year, the team's truest point guard (Kelli Kingma) suffered an injury in the second or third game of the year that ultimately turned out to be season-ending. McDonald missed the first month of the season with an injury, but once she came in, yes - she spent a fair amount of time at the 1. Neighbors will tell you that Natalie Romeo spent time at the 1 as well.
I think, particularly this past year, Neighbors ran a relatively unconventional offensive system. The Huskies primarily played a 3-guard lineup, which is not that unconventional for college (even if Plum was the tallest of the three). I call it unconventional because, for starters, I have never seen a system that gave a singular player as much freedom as Plum was given.
Plum joked in one award acceptance speech, "Some players are given the green light. I think I was given a highway."
The Huskies played with multiple ball handlers, but much of the offense was designed around her. The secret to UW's success, and to Plum's success, however, was that the offense was not built solely around her. The offense was very clearly designed to utilize both Plum's strengths and Chantel Osahor's strengths. I'm sure it seemed to many casual fans that UW was basically the Kelsey Plum show, but Kelsey operated with the kind of freedom she did because of how well she and Osahor complemented each other. Osahor, as a kind of point forward, was as critical to the offense as Plum. Neighbors said multiple times that when the offense struggled, often his message to the team would be to make sure Osahor got more touches.
I mean, Plum could scarcely ever dribble herself into trouble when she always had the option to toss the ball to Osahor. Defenses had to respect Osahor's outside shot. They had to respect her dribble-drive. And Osahor was the team's best passer and had a career 1.8 assist/turnover ratio.
Another unconventional aspect of the system was the fact that Neighbors gave the green light to every player who got into the game. Nobody was allowed to pass up an open three-point look. So for as much as the offense was designed for Plum and Osahor, the rest of the team was willing to do their part to make the defense work - to move without the ball and to make it difficult for the opposition to double team either Plum or Osahor. They trusted Plum's and Osahor's decision making, and they knew they were allowed to take any shot they wanted. The system allowed a fair amount of freedom for all of the players. And yes, Plum still took most of the shot attempts...but she actually didn't shoot any more than she had the previous year.
Think about that for a moment: as a senior she increased her average nearly 6 points per game from her junior year, while attempting the same number of field goals per game. That's partially a product of her own competitiveness and her focus on efficiency, but that is also a product of teamwork getting her better looks.
Whether San Antonio plays her at the 1 or the 2 (or rather, if they play her), she won't have the kind of freedom to operate offensively the way Neighbors' unique system allowed her. That kind of system is not going to work at this level. She is going to have to adjust. She'll be playing in a more restrictive system. She won't have the ball in her hands as much. She's not going to play the first 37 minutes of the game - she might actually come in and out of a game. The competitor in her wanted to go #1 so she did what she did, making it impossible to pass on her, and thus she ended up on the worst team. I'm not sure the Stars have much of an offensive system in place - they seem to rely mostly on Jefferson to make something happen. Even with Jefferson playing well, the team is just not very good. Still, Plum has to adjust and find a way to make an impact with fewer minutes and fewer touches.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9711
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Posted: 06/29/17 11:40 pm ::: |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67052 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 06/30/17 6:58 am ::: |
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Harden also did not have an overwhelmingly impressive rookie season
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9711
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Posted: 07/06/17 2:59 am ::: |
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Humbling start for prized rookie Plum
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After a recent session, she stayed on the court for an extra hour to work out with Becky Hammon, a former Stars great who is an assistant coach for the Spurs. |
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9711
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63872
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tfan
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11187
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Posted: 08/26/17 9:29 am ::: |
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I've been in the wait-and-see category but it sure looks like Plum is simply not ready for the WNBA. That doesn't mean she won't be ready at some point, but from her play this summer, I wouldn't expect it next year.
She plays hard, has some skills and apparently does the things necessary to improve, but shooters have to make shots, and she's not doing that.
Too bad, really ... the league can always use more good players.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24397 Location: London
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Posted: 08/26/17 9:42 am ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
I've been in the wait-and-see category but it sure looks like Plum is simply not ready for the WNBA. That doesn't mean she won't be ready at some point, but from her play this summer, I wouldn't expect it next year.
She plays hard, has some skills and apparently does the things necessary to improve, but shooters have to make shots, and she's not doing that.
Too bad, really ... the league can always use more good players. |
She's already improved dramatically from the start of her rookie season. That's a pretty good start. |
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