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Liberty @ Wings - 6/16/17
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Who will win this game?
Liberty
52%
 52%  [ 12 ]
Wings
47%
 47%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 23

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blaase22



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nonway should liberty fans be complaining about calls, refs have sucked for both teams.


Queenie



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WHAT IS HAPPENING?!



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
WHAT IS HAPPENING?!


Tom Mauer is happening



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blaase22



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wings are a loser organization.


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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

another game lost fred this on you



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Seriously, though. The fuck?

Yes, pilight, I realize nothing will beat that infamous EDD basket (though the Teasley continuation on a shot that came after a whistle is right up there) but refs seem to be trying to find new ways to fail the last couple of years.



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Wings are driving to the basket with Liberty post players there and it hasn't been working for them down the stretch and in overtime.


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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dallas will make you wanna pull your hair out from the root.


LibFan25



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hartley! lmao !!!!




Last edited by LibFan25 on 06/16/17 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
toad455



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wings falling apart in OT.



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wow



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bcdawg04



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was wondering why the Wings had only 8 seconds on the clock as soon as they crossed halfcourt. Terrible that the refs had 14 seconds to catch the error but they didn't.

The announcer made a comment earlier about how she knows the refs hate blowing the whistle. I'm pretty sure that's not actually true for a lot of them.


blaase22



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Seriously the wings have been a "young" team for 5+ seasons already


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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

First off I can't believe the Libs are about to win this game. Very pleased with the Libs' mental toughness. I thought Dallas' offense stagnated very similarly to how it stagnated down the stretch in NY. Kiah being fresh down the stretch and providing a nice lift defensively didn't hurt.

I'll take it!



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Liberty got a break in overtime. Charles & Sugar were tired. Zellous was in beast mode. Nice help from Zahui B off the bench despite 5 fouls. Refs were probably the worst I've seen all season. We get a week off before we face Connecticut next Friday.



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder if teams ever work on trying not to be fouled at the end of games. Diggins-Smith got the rebound with 8 seconds left and if she had dribbled away from Liberty players and looked to play keep-away, they could have either run out the clock or have given New York a lot less time to tie it (after Diggins-Smith missed one free throw).


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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm glad the Libs have a week off. Tina played all but the final :11 and Sugar played all 45 minutes.



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Diggins could have put the game away in regulation. Glad she didn't.



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WOW! In the overtime: Liberty 14, Wings 5. Very gutsy win for New York, after a lot of disappointing play for most of the game.

What a job by Shavonte Zellous, who scored 28 points on only 13 field goal attempts. 9-13 from the field, 10-11 from the line, 8 rebounds, 6 assists. Others on the team had their good and bad moments. Zellous was just superb right through all of her nearly 39 minutes on the floor.



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Those magic numbers....48%/90....dallas has given up 48% fg & 90+ pts in 8 of the last 9 games......I'm done with this piece of shit franchise.....attendance..3152

S.Zellous is a all-star...and should get some mvp votes




Last edited by zune69 on 06/16/17 11:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
Randy



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 9:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
WOW! In the overtime: Liberty 14, Wings 5. Very gutsy win for New York, after a lot of disappointing play for most of the game.

What a job by Shavonte Zellous, who scored 28 points on only 13 field goal attempts. 9-13 from the field, 10-11 from the line, 8 rebounds, 6 assists. Others on the team had their good and bad moments. Zellous was just superb right through all of her nearly 39 minutes on the floor.


And let's not forget Hartley (17pt, 6-12) and her dagger at the end. Yet another NY player much maligned by fans. Laughing

(I'm not really a NY fan, but I since picked them in the tipping contest, I'm a fan tonight.)


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PostPosted: 06/16/17 10:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Been watching the Wings for 5 seasons and with the exception of the beginning of ONE season, they've been horrible. Absolutely horrible damn near all 5 seasons. Like how?! They've had the same issue all 5 seasons defense and a horrible offensive system, you mean to tell me you can't AT LEAST improve on them even slightly??


Sorry about the melt down but I honestly want a refund on my all access pass of whatever the FUCK it's called because I can't watch them anymore.


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PostPosted: 06/16/17 10:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Again, Fred Williams needs to go. I hate watching Wings' home games and seeing the upper "bowl" tarped off. It's only a 7,200 seat arena, it's not good to see that at the beginning of every Wings game.



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 10:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yes who was that female announcer saying Fred was such a great coach at the end of the game? She obviously got hit in the head by The Burgess twins too much.


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PostPosted: 06/16/17 10:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
WOW! In the overtime: Liberty 14, Wings 5. Very gutsy win for New York, after a lot of disappointing play for most of the game.

What a job by Shavonte Zellous, who scored 28 points on only 13 field goal attempts. 9-13 from the field, 10-11 from the line, 8 rebounds, 6 assists. Others on the team had their good and bad moments. Zellous was just superb right through all of her nearly 39 minutes on the floor.


And let's not forget Hartley (17pt, 6-12) and her dagger at the end. Yet another NY player much maligned by fans. Laughing

(I'm not really a NY fan, but I since picked them in the tipping contest, I'm a fan tonight.)


Hartley had perhaps her best game for the Liberty, but I wouldn't throw unequivocal praise at her. She played 29 minutes and had ONE assist. She is our #1 point guard because Wright didn't return, Boyd is out for the season, and Lindsay Allen is just learning about the WNBA. It's not Hartley's fault that she's been thrown into a role that isn't ideal for her.

It will be interesting to see how Bill Laimbeer allocates playing time for his guards once Prince is back.



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 10:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

blaase22 wrote:
Yes who was that female announcer saying Fred was such a great coach at the end of the game? She obviously got hit in the head by The Burgess twins too much.


Reagan Pebley who is the head coach at TCU. She said earlier that she likes going to Wings practices, not just as a commentator getting background information, but as a coach learning by watching Williams.




Last edited by tfan on 06/17/17 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total
toad455



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 11:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:

Hartley had perhaps her best game for the Liberty, but I wouldn't throw unequivocal praise at her. She played 29 minutes and had ONE assist. She is our #1 point guard because Wright didn't return, Boyd is out for the season, and Lindsay Allen is just learning about the WNBA. It's not Hartley's fault that she's been thrown into a role that isn't ideal for her.

It will be interesting to see how Bill Laimbeer allocates playing time for his guards once Prince is back.


Zellous ran PG duties mostly in the second half & OT, not Hartley. I'm assuming once Prince comes back, Hartley moves to the end of the bench.



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 11:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Randy wrote:
You can knock Fred for drafting Shakhator, but Davis and Gray more than make up for that.


He lucked out. Still sucks that the top three picks have been a bust. Hopefully Coates shows us something once she's able to play.


And Chong too. Who would have guess Chong would be playing well while Plum is turning into a prune on the Stars bench.


I guess the question is should he have drafted Gray and Davis 3/4 and then someone like McCall at 10, or even Akhator 10 who probably would have still been there and avoided the bad publicity of being a potential bust as a lottery pick?


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PostPosted: 06/16/17 11:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Randy wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
WOW! In the overtime: Liberty 14, Wings 5. Very gutsy win for New York, after a lot of disappointing play for most of the game.

What a job by Shavonte Zellous, who scored 28 points on only 13 field goal attempts. 9-13 from the field, 10-11 from the line, 8 rebounds, 6 assists. Others on the team had their good and bad moments. Zellous was just superb right through all of her nearly 39 minutes on the floor.


And let's not forget Hartley (17pt, 6-12) and her dagger at the end. Yet another NY player much maligned by fans. Laughing

(I'm not really a NY fan, but I since picked them in the tipping contest, I'm a fan tonight.)


Hartley had perhaps her best game for the Liberty, but I wouldn't throw unequivocal praise at her. She played 29 minutes and had ONE assist. She is our #1 point guard because Wright didn't return, Boyd is out for the season, and Lindsay Allen is just learning about the WNBA. It's not Hartley's fault that she's been thrown into a role that isn't ideal for her.

It will be interesting to see how Bill Laimbeer allocates playing time for his guards once Prince is back.


Good points. I was really curious how Hartley would fit in from several standpoints, knowing that DC's system was much more perimeter-oriented than NY, but also knowing that Hartley had some grit and willingness to physically engage on both ends. I thought she'd have been better early, but whether it was system adjustment, chemistry with teammates and/or recovery from pregnancy, she started way worse than I had expected. Now that she has been pretty functional, the good thing about her presence is you know the team won't undergo drastic drop-offs when she is on the floor. She can log time at both guard positions, which is also good depending on game situations. Definitely not a pass-first PG. Definitely not what we envisioned when the season began in terms of the PG position. But she's a piece that you can use off the bench in a variety of situations, which is a nice spot to be in considering where she was a few weeks ago.



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 11:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:

Hartley had perhaps her best game for the Liberty, but I wouldn't throw unequivocal praise at her. She played 29 minutes and had ONE assist. She is our #1 point guard because Wright didn't return, Boyd is out for the season, and Lindsay Allen is just learning about the WNBA. It's not Hartley's fault that she's been thrown into a role that isn't ideal for her.

It will be interesting to see how Bill Laimbeer allocates playing time for his guards once Prince is back.


Zellous ran PG duties mostly in the second half & OT, not Hartley. I'm assuming once Prince comes back, Hartley moves to the end of the bench.


I think that's overstated. Hartley had the ball a decent amount in the second half and the overtime, enough to drive a few times and miss at least two layups late in the game. I don't want to dump on her; overall, she had a good game.



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PostPosted: 06/17/17 2:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is the boxscore correct? Did Sugar play all 45 minutes?

And Tina just a few seconds less?

Daaaaamn.



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PostPosted: 06/17/17 7:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:

Hartley had perhaps her best game for the Liberty, but I wouldn't throw unequivocal praise at her. She played 29 minutes and had ONE assist. She is our #1 point guard because Wright didn't return, Boyd is out for the season, and Lindsay Allen is just learning about the WNBA. It's not Hartley's fault that she's been thrown into a role that isn't ideal for her.

It will be interesting to see how Bill Laimbeer allocates playing time for his guards once Prince is back.


Zellous ran PG duties mostly in the second half & OT, not Hartley. I'm assuming once Prince comes back, Hartley moves to the end of the bench.


I think that's overstated. Hartley had the ball a decent amount in the second half and the overtime, enough to drive a few times and miss at least two layups late in the game. I don't want to dump on her; overall, she had a good game.


Does say something about the Liberty depth that a player stuck at the end of the bench, largely written off (and disparaged) by fans comes in an plays respectably enough that the team goes 5-1 with her as a starter.


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PostPosted: 06/17/17 8:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Is the boxscore correct? Did Sugar play all 45 minutes?

And Tina just a few seconds less?

Daaaaamn.


Yep. Due to Stokes & Hartley being in foul trouble. If R. Allen & Raincock produced something I think they would have seen a break. They also don't play again until Friday.



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PostPosted: 06/17/17 8:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Again, Dallas players wide open and not being passed to and involved in the offense in the later stages of the game and OT.

Diggins is good but there are other players on the team and court that can score too - especially during crunch times. Quit gunning up wildly every shot when the other players can help(Davis and Christmas, this means you too.). Pass the damn ball! Fred! You need to take control of this team!

And Glory, no more threes please...



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PostPosted: 06/17/17 9:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Is the boxscore correct? Did Sugar play all 45 minutes?

And Tina just a few seconds less?

Daaaaamn.


Yep. Due to Stokes & Hartley being in foul trouble. If R. Allen & Raincock produced something I think they would have seen a break. They also don't play again until Friday.


The boxscore showed that Alston played 8 seconds. I thought maybe she very briefly came in for Sugar. It turns out that Alston replaced L. Allen for the last 7.5 seconds of the first half. I guess Laimbeer knew that Diggins would have the ball and take the last shot, so he wanted Zellous on her. Whoever came in would have to defend at SF. Dallas was using a big line-up, so that turned out to be Thornton. Why Bill would send in Alston to guard Thornton instead of Raincock or even R. Allen seems strange to me. Was he worried about switches where the SF would end up on Diggins or Gray? Sending out the last player on your bench to play out of position for an important defensive stop is puzzling. But that shows you NY is currently in a state of flux, and they're just trying to piece it together moment by moment.



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PostPosted: 06/17/17 10:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:

Hartley had perhaps her best game for the Liberty, but I wouldn't throw unequivocal praise at her. She played 29 minutes and had ONE assist. She is our #1 point guard because Wright didn't return, Boyd is out for the season, and Lindsay Allen is just learning about the WNBA. It's not Hartley's fault that she's been thrown into a role that isn't ideal for her.

It will be interesting to see how Bill Laimbeer allocates playing time for his guards once Prince is back.


Zellous ran PG duties mostly in the second half & OT, not Hartley. I'm assuming once Prince comes back, Hartley moves to the end of the bench.


I think that's overstated. Hartley had the ball a decent amount in the second half and the overtime, enough to drive a few times and miss at least two layups late in the game. I don't want to dump on her; overall, she had a good game.


Does say something about the Liberty depth that a player stuck at the end of the bench, largely written off (and disparaged) by fans comes in an plays respectably enough that the team goes 5-1 with her as a starter.


Says that maybe the fans were wrong. Wink



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PostPosted: 06/17/17 10:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
Randy wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:

Hartley had perhaps her best game for the Liberty, but I wouldn't throw unequivocal praise at her. She played 29 minutes and had ONE assist. She is our #1 point guard because Wright didn't return, Boyd is out for the season, and Lindsay Allen is just learning about the WNBA. It's not Hartley's fault that she's been thrown into a role that isn't ideal for her.

It will be interesting to see how Bill Laimbeer allocates playing time for his guards once Prince is back.


Zellous ran PG duties mostly in the second half & OT, not Hartley. I'm assuming once Prince comes back, Hartley moves to the end of the bench.


I think that's overstated. Hartley had the ball a decent amount in the second half and the overtime, enough to drive a few times and miss at least two layups late in the game. I don't want to dump on her; overall, she had a good game.


Does say something about the Liberty depth that a player stuck at the end of the bench, largely written off (and disparaged) by fans comes in an plays respectably enough that the team goes 5-1 with her as a starter.


Says that maybe the fans were wrong. Wink


It says to me what I've posted before: fans are way too quick to trash players, especially players on their own teams. This isn't limited to Liberty fans or to WNBA fans. It's everywhere.



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PostPosted: 06/17/17 11:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I figured she'd improve eventually. I didn't think it would be so immediate though. Gotta remember, she couldn't even get the ball across the time line without fear of it being stolen in the early part of the season. I don't think necessarily too many of us were saying Hartley is a ___________. But new team, new offense, struggling player out of position. Pessimism coming into this six game stretch was reasonable. Even the head coach was quoted more than once as saying he wondered where the wins would come from and if the team was better off on the road than at home, because losing home games would be more damaging. If the head coach says it...

Also credit to the coaching staff for helping her to acclimate. Libs fans may remember Laimbeer talking about how the Libs worked heavily on quick and accurate entry passing before the first Dallas game. To me, it's helped Hartley in the sense that she rarely has the ball in the frontcourt for extended periods of time. When the ball is on the perimeter for extended periods, it's more equal opportunity between Hartley, Z and Sugar. Otherwise a lot of the offense runs through Tina.

Now, when we get Piph and Vaughn back, I'm hoping that the burden on Tina can be lessened. If you look at it, we can still have lineups with Piph, Sugar and Z on the floor without Tina. Which would mean that we'd have 3 pretty good scorers while being able to give her more extended breaks. Kia also has 15-18 foot range, so if she's Tina's sub, she's got some scoring ability as well. Win or lose the CT game, I think this stretch has done the Libs a lot of good for future progression. Support players are now capable of playing bigger roles if needed and Sugar's 3 ball looks like it is starting to come to life. Once Piph returns, Sugar should not be shooting some of those off-the-dribble, late in the shot clock type deals.

Really wish we had Boyd to add more of a speed element to the game, but I think there's still more than enough here to be a very good team. To me, only Tina and Z are peaking...though neither is outperforming their abilities. Otherwise, there's an awful lot of upward mobility on a team that is currently 7-4 with one of its stars not even playing.



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PostPosted: 06/17/17 11:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RavenDog wrote:
Again, Dallas players wide open and not being passed to and involved in the offense in the later stages of the game and OT.

Diggins is good but there are other players on the team and court that can score too - especially during crunch times. Quit gunning up wildly every shot when the other players can help(Davis and Christmas, this means you too.). Pass the damn ball! Fred! You need to take control of this team!

And Glory, no more threes please...


Please lord please just make it stop...



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PostPosted: 06/17/17 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A few things about Dallas in the two games vs. NY were telling. The major one being how the ball movement and player movement slowed significantly down the stretch of both games. Diggins also didn't seem very inclined to want to break down the defense down the stretch as she had done so well prior. While only speculation, it seems plausible that team conditioning should be better. It was the same exact pattern in both games.



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PostPosted: 06/17/17 12:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What I found fascinating was this. For 39 minutes, it seemed like every time Dallas really needed a field goal they got it. Again and again when the Liberty had some momentum going, Dallas stopped it. But at the end of regulation and in overtime, they couldn't score when it counted, even after that early three-pointer in overtime. Five points in a five-minute overtime at home? I'd find that tough to take if I were a Dallas fan.

It was an example of what we've all seen repeatedly, sometimes painfully. If you're ahead throughout a game but allow your opponent to stay within striking distance, a very unpleasant surprise can be ahead.



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PostPosted: 06/17/17 1:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FYI, Hartley's shot made SC's top 10.



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PostPosted: 06/17/17 1:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
What I found fascinating was this. For 39 minutes, it seemed like every time Dallas really needed a field goal they got it. Again and again when the Liberty had some momentum going, Dallas stopped it. But at the end of regulation and in overtime, they couldn't score when it counted, even after that early three-pointer in overtime. Five points in a five-minute overtime at home? I'd find that tough to take if I were a Dallas fan.

It was an example of what we've all seen repeatedly, sometimes painfully. If you're ahead throughout a game but allow your opponent to stay within striking distance, a very unpleasant surprise can be ahead.


That's quite true especially looking at those situations where the game was tied. The Liberty NEVER LED the game in the fourth quarter. My friend and I were incredulous at how many times they couldn't take the lead when they had the chance. Yet they won. Pretty unusual but definitely speaks to their will.



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