RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

Transfer denied--why???

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » NCAA Women's Basketball - General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 4124
Location: Shenandoah Valley


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/23/17 12:44 pm    ::: Transfer denied--why??? Reply Reply with quote

UT-Arlington (i.e. their COACH) is denying a transfer request by sophomore PG Erica Mattingly to transfer to a school nearer her home in Wichita, KS. ESPN Basketball Analyst Jay Bilas Tweeted out today questioning if the “welfare” of Mattingly is being considered after her request to transfer back home was denied.

http://www.swishappeal.com/2017/5/22/15677490/bilas-rips-texas-arlington-denies-mattingly-transfer-ncaaw

I have to ask if this is really about Mattingly's "welfare", or if it's about coach Krista Gerlich's ego. After all, Mattingly was somewhat of a standout player this past season, leading the team with 3.8 assists per game, 2.3 steals per game, and averaging 4.9 points and 2.4 rebounds per game. And we do know that according to NCAA transfer rules, in many situations, the “first college can still control whether a player will play at another Division I or II school.” We don't know Mattingly's reasons for wanting to transfer, but since she's explicitly wanting to be nearer home, they are likely family-related. So is Gerlich going to be a dog in the manger, a clod in the churn, or is she going to do the decent thing. let the girl go, and get over it?

This article also reminded me of why, exactly, I disliked Amanda Butler. That whole Sydney Moss business was utterly disgraceful! Talk about a clod in the churn and a vindictive somebody! Ugh.



_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.
ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 8103



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/23/17 1:52 pm    ::: Re: Transfer denied--why??? Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
UT-Arlington (i.e. their COACH) is denying a transfer request by sophomore PG Erica Mattingly to transfer to a school nearer her home in Wichita, KS. ESPN Basketball Analyst Jay Bilas Tweeted out today questioning if the “welfare” of Mattingly is being considered after her request to transfer back home was denied.

http://www.swishappeal.com/2017/5/22/15677490/bilas-rips-texas-arlington-denies-mattingly-transfer-ncaaw

I have to ask if this is really about Mattingly's "welfare", or if it's about coach Krista Gerlich's ego. After all, Mattingly was somewhat of a standout player this past season, leading the team with 3.8 assists per game, 2.3 steals per game, and averaging 4.9 points and 2.4 rebounds per game. And we do know that according to NCAA transfer rules, in many situations, the “first college can still control whether a player will play at another Division I or II school.” We don't know Mattingly's reasons for wanting to transfer, but since she's explicitly wanting to be nearer home, they are likely family-related. So is Gerlich going to be a dog in the manger, a clod in the churn, or is she going to do the decent thing. let the girl go, and get over it?

This article also reminded me of why, exactly, I disliked Amanda Butler. That whole Sydney Moss business was utterly disgraceful! Talk about a clod in the churn and a vindictive somebody! Ugh.


And why players should be allowed to transfer without losing eligibility or having to pay for a year of school.

Power corrupts ...



_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 2638



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/23/17 2:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Without knowing the details to this situation I would think that a coach would be fully justified in denying a transfer to any school that had had illegal contact with the player while that player was under scholarship to another school. This may well be all about Gerlich's ego but it could also be a case of Mattingly having already contacted the coach or other employee of Witchta St. for example, to inquire about whether she would be welcome.


CannonVol



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 46
Location: Knoxville


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/23/17 3:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree with you, Clay. Players should not be punished for requesting/transferring. These restrictions seem to be in place to protect coaches from themselves, if my understanding of the rationale is correct. But, there are ways of dealing with improper contact that don't involve punishing the student/athlete.

For example, a restriction regarding a particular school could be enforced, if improper contact is alleged and sufficiently supported. This, in my opinion, would deter improper contact, but would allow the student/athlete to transfer with immediate eligibility to any other school and without having to incur personal expense.

Jim


summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 4124
Location: Shenandoah Valley


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/23/17 4:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
Without knowing the details to this situation I would think that a coach would be fully justified in denying a transfer to any school that had had illegal contact with the player while that player was under scholarship to another school. This may well be all about Gerlich's ego but it could also be a case of Mattingly having already contacted the coach or other employee of Witchta St. for example, to inquire about whether she would be welcome.


There are other schools near Mattingly's home also. Doesn't have to be Wichita St. Denying her a transfer at all is ridiculous. (Or, as Butler did to Sydney Moss, denying her a transfer to *any* D-I or D-II school. That kind of move ought to get a coach punished!)



_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.
PrideFan



Joined: 28 Jul 2014
Posts: 51



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/23/17 5:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When a player asks to transfer, they're basically saying that they don't want to be there anymore. Why would a coach want to keep a player there, when they don't want to be? I can't imagine that player would play to their full potential the following season.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 54148
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/23/17 6:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PrideFan wrote:
I can't imagine that player would play to their full potential the following season.


This "groin pull" is really painful...



_________________
Look out Music City, 'cause I'm here now and I ain't never leavin'
GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 3663
Location: Heisenberg


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/24/17 1:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Whether, or how much, one believes that NCAA basketball players should be free to transfer, it's not true to say that Mattingly "can't transfer" or that UT-Arlington can "block" or "deny" her from transferring to another school.

Mattingly can transfer. However, she must potentially pay two prices.

The first price is that (usually) she will have to sit out one year. That's according to the NCAA transfer rules and UT-Arlington has no control over that.

The second price is that she can't get athletic scholarship money during her mandated sit-out year if she hasn't gotten a permission-to-contact letter (sometimes called a "release") from UT-Arlington to talk to the school to which she wants to transfer. If she transfers with such PTC release she can be on full athletic scholarship during her sit-out year. If she transfers without a PTC release, she can't get an athletic scholarship during the sit-out year.

So what burden is on an athlete who transfers without a PTC release? She will have finance one year of her education with an academic scholarship if she so qualifies, or get a job, or hit up her parents for money, or take student loans -- just like the tens of millions of college students in this country who don't have the uber-financial privilege of having college varsity athletic skills.

Of course, one can still argue for completely unfettered student-athlete and scholarship transferability, as Clay Kallam persuasively does, but publications like Swish Appeal should be more accurate as to how they report the effect of the denials of PTC releases.

(Note: this whole subject is even more complicated. I'm ignoring "releases" in the context of the NLI rules and the one-time-transfer rules. I'm also ignoring conference transfer rules, which may or may not exist in the UT-Arlington conference.)
summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 4124
Location: Shenandoah Valley


Back to top
PostPosted: 05/24/17 5:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Can't transfer" in this case basically means that she can't get a release, so would have to pay her own way, which is a pretty big financial burden for many of these girls. A lot of you middle-class types have no idea HOW big. Student loans mean a much bigger burden to some than to others, sorry to rattle your wagon. I don't know if she would qualify for an academic schollie, but those are increasingly hard to come by, depending on where she wants to go.

It just seems to me that her coach needs to get over it. What does it benefit her to refuse a release to a player who doesn't want to be there?



_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.
Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 4269



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/24/17 5:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've never understood a coach not granting a release.


However, free reign to transfer without sitting out or paying your own way isn't the answer either.



_________________
neverthless she persisted
shontay33



Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 230



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/25/17 2:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CannonVol wrote:
I agree with you, Clay. Players should not be punished for requesting/transferring. These restrictions seem to be in place to protect coaches from themselves, if my understanding of the rationale is correct. But, there are ways of dealing with improper contact that don't involve punishing the student/athlete.

For example, a restriction regarding a particular school could be enforced, if improper contact is alleged and sufficiently supported. This, in my opinion, would deter improper contact, but would allow the student/athlete to transfer with immediate eligibility to any other school and without having to incur personal expense.

Jim


What if that restriction is just based on hearsay. Then you have one coach accusing another coach for something that they may have not even done which could get real ugly.


shontay33



Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 230



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/25/17 3:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
I've never understood a coach not granting a release.


However, free reign to transfer without sitting out or paying your own way isn't the answer either.


The NCAA rule says that a student athlete has to sit out a year unless they have a waiver. So if the waiver is not granted for the athlete to play right away, then they have to sit out one year. If a school takes in a transfer, then it is up to the coach as to if the transfer student gets a scholarship while sitting out for the year. Since a school has a certain number of scholarships for the year, it may possibly be that the student athlete will not be getting a full scholarship until they become eligible to play for the school they transfer to.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 468



Back to top
PostPosted: 05/25/17 5:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not clear as to whether UTA is refusing to release her completely, or refusing to release her to a school near Wichita? We've seen some players lately who've claimed they want to transfer closer to home then go somewhere 1500 miles away. Maybe this is an issue here?


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 54148
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/02/17 9:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

shontay33 wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
I've never understood a coach not granting a release.


However, free reign to transfer without sitting out or paying your own way isn't the answer either.


The NCAA rule says that a student athlete has to sit out a year unless they have a waiver. So if the waiver is not granted for the athlete to play right away, then they have to sit out one year. If a school takes in a transfer, then it is up to the coach as to if the transfer student gets a scholarship while sitting out for the year. Since a school has a certain number of scholarships for the year, it may possibly be that the student athlete will not be getting a full scholarship until they become eligible to play for the school they transfer to.


The player has to sit out a year regardless. Without the waiver, the player can't be on scholarship during the year they're sitting.

This is not limited to women or basketball, of course. Kansas State football is in the news now because their coach is refusing to release a player who wants to transfer.



_________________
Look out Music City, 'cause I'm here now and I ain't never leavin'
ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: New York


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/04/17 9:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
shontay33 wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
I've never understood a coach not granting a release.


However, free reign to transfer without sitting out or paying your own way isn't the answer either.


The NCAA rule says that a student athlete has to sit out a year unless they have a waiver. So if the waiver is not granted for the athlete to play right away, then they have to sit out one year. If a school takes in a transfer, then it is up to the coach as to if the transfer student gets a scholarship while sitting out for the year. Since a school has a certain number of scholarships for the year, it may possibly be that the student athlete will not be getting a full scholarship until they become eligible to play for the school they transfer to.


The player has to sit out a year regardless. Without the waiver, the player can't be on scholarship during the year they're sitting.

This is not limited to women or basketball, of course. Kansas State football is in the news now because their coach is refusing to release a player who wants to transfer.


One would think Kansas State would've learned their lesson after the Leticia Romero disaster.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 468



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/04/17 5:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
shontay33 wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
I've never understood a coach not granting a release.


However, free reign to transfer without sitting out or paying your own way isn't the answer either.


The NCAA rule says that a student athlete has to sit out a year unless they have a waiver. So if the waiver is not granted for the athlete to play right away, then they have to sit out one year. If a school takes in a transfer, then it is up to the coach as to if the transfer student gets a scholarship while sitting out for the year. Since a school has a certain number of scholarships for the year, it may possibly be that the student athlete will not be getting a full scholarship until they become eligible to play for the school they transfer to.


The player has to sit out a year regardless. Without the waiver, the player can't be on scholarship during the year they're sitting.

This is not limited to women or basketball, of course. Kansas State football is in the news now because their coach is refusing to release a player who wants to transfer.


No. The NCAA can and does give waivers to players with extenuating circumstances that allows them to play right away without sitting out a year, for example the aforementioned Leticia Romero who got a waiver and did not have to sit out when transferring to FSU.


summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 4124
Location: Shenandoah Valley


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/04/17 5:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
pilight wrote:
shontay33 wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
I've never understood a coach not granting a release.


However, free reign to transfer without sitting out or paying your own way isn't the answer either.


The NCAA rule says that a student athlete has to sit out a year unless they have a waiver. So if the waiver is not granted for the athlete to play right away, then they have to sit out one year. If a school takes in a transfer, then it is up to the coach as to if the transfer student gets a scholarship while sitting out for the year. Since a school has a certain number of scholarships for the year, it may possibly be that the student athlete will not be getting a full scholarship until they become eligible to play for the school they transfer to.


The player has to sit out a year regardless. Without the waiver, the player can't be on scholarship during the year they're sitting.

This is not limited to women or basketball, of course. Kansas State football is in the news now because their coach is refusing to release a player who wants to transfer.


No. The NCAA can and does give waivers to players with extenuating circumstances that allows them to play right away without sitting out a year, for example the aforementioned Leticia Romero who got a waiver and did not have to sit out when transferring to FSU.


That's what they said already.



_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.
purduefanatic



Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2140
Location: Indiana


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/05/17 1:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Without the waiver, the player can't be on scholarship during the year they're sitting.


Unless this is a newer rule, that is not true. Anytime we took in a transfer while I was coaching they were on a scholarship and counted towards our limit of 15 per year.

Now, I believe they cannot be on an athletic scholarship if they transfer without being released by the school they are leaving.


Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » NCAA Women's Basketball - General Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin