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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 05/29/17 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Somebody is griping that they think Elena Delle Donne - a white female - gets more attention than she deserves versus her counterpart black females in the WNBA. Talking about a white MALE tennis player getting more attention than black FEMALE tennis players is an invalid analogy as not just the race, but the sex is different. We all know that male sports players get more reverence than female. Plus, I think women tennis fans gave white Martina Navratilova less love than her less successful white counterparts due to her having a more muscular physique. Serena Williams is even more powerfully built than Navratilova. So there's that as well.

Plus, people are more drawn to their own race and white players in the WNBA are in short supply. The majority of people date and marry people in their own race. They have "racist" dating habits. But we don't condemn that. And why get upset about Delle Donne when no one was complaining about the attention that Taurasi, Bird, and Jackson got/get?

And we are a long way from the 1950's and Jackie Robinson. Football and basketball fans go bonkers for a mostly black league. Golf fans were 85% white in 2006 but Tiger Woods was very well received by them and ratings and attendance went down when he left after his scandal. He also received 1.2 billion in endorsement money through 2015.




Last edited by tfan on 05/29/17 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
Skyfan22



Joined: 12 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 05/29/17 6:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Somebody is griping that they think Elena Delle Donne - a white female - gets more attention than she deserves versus her counterpart black females in the WNBA. Talking about a white MALE tennis player getting more attention than black FEMALE tennis players is an invalid analogy as not just the race, but the sex is different. We all know that male sports players get more reverence than female. Plus, I think women tennis fans gave white Martina Navratilova less love than her less successful white counterparts due to her having a more muscular physique. Serena Williams is even more powerfully built than Navratilova. So there's that as well.

Plus, people are more drawn to their own race and white players in the WNBA are in short supply. The majority of people date and marry people in their own race. They have "racist" dating habits. But we don't condemn that. And why get upset about Delle Donne when no one was complaining about the attention that Taurasi, Bird, and Jackson got/get?

And we are a long way from the 1950's and Jackie Robinson. Football and basketball fans go bonkers for a mostly black league. Golf fans were 85% in 2006 but Tiger Woods was very well received by them and ratings and attendance went down when he left after his scandal. He also received 1.2 billion in endorsement money through 2015.


Let me clarify my stance. I am griping about the racism that occurs in sport. And let me clarify beyond that: I am deeply troubled by the discrimination that occurs in sport, and more so the stubborn refusal of people who deny this discrimination exists. No as it pertains to EDD, I feel she is a lying little witch who seduced Michael Alter when he reached out to her prior to the draft by state no that she was committed to the Sky.
In the late 90s and early 2000s prior to the rise of RF, women's tennis was becoming more of a draw then men. John McEnroe even, who prior had refused to commentate, recognized this trend and actually called the French Open ladies final of '99. Roger's reception as the 2d coming may have in part been a response to the loss of WASP male control in tennis. People that actually attend the US Open watch both men's and women's matches. Cheering for Federer while deriding The Williams. Being more attracted to Men's tennis does not explain derision.

Martina was not favored compared to ice box Evert, whom I love too, was mostly jeered because she is s a LESBIAN, not cuz she is muscular.

People are more drawn to their own race? Unless you can explain the neuroscience behind that, I will assume That statement is laden with racism

We don't condemn racist dating habits? I, don't know about others, but I condemn the racism that leads to selection of a life partner.

Why does EDD get it and not the other 3 that were dedicated to their teams. Obviously, they weren't golden spoon wenches that jerked their team around. LJ played half a career on a broken axle, out of country.

Tiger Woods. Seriously, how many black people watched golf prior to him? How many do now?


Skyfan22



Joined: 12 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 05/29/17 6:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
racism exists. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. It's sad but it's a fact. Misogyny also exists. It's sad but it's a fact. Discrimination of all kinds exists. It's up to all of us to do whatever we can to dump that shit in the toilet as soon as possible.

I don't think belittling a white woman's accomplishments because she is white helps get us there. And to me calling someone the Great White Hope is doing just that. If someone came on here and called Nneka, as an example, the Great Black Hope, we would all be pissed off about it. Just because racism exists in society as a whole, I don't see why we have to be that way here. Reverse racism is just as bad. Can't we just celebrate these women's accomplishments, which are amazing no matter how you look at it, without playing the race card.

JMO.


Reverse racism is just as bad? It's not. It's not even close. History has demonstrated the severity of the effects of the maltreatment of blacks. The reverse is nowhere close to the same thing. Nowhere. To indicate that it is undermines attempts to correct current social mores


Luuuc
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PostPosted: 05/29/17 7:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Skyfan22 wrote:
Wow. Someone is obviously using strained bits of reason to get to a point.
1. Conversation started as EDD being the great white hope
2. People began to indicate that there isn't Discrimination based on race favoring EDD and generalized it to sports in general.
3. I stated there is. I compared her to Federer because he is exalted among the elitist waspy tennis fans who I could go on for hours examples of the ways they perpetuate racism.
4. I said that these same fans don't treat the Williams with any sort of similar reverence or even respect.
5. You chose to rush to the altar of Federer and defend him as the Goat. My statement again was that his worshippers chose to worship him because he fits the profile they have been hoping for
6. In your reply, you dismissed Serena via unconscious discrimination by thoughtlessly typing the word male
7. OR, you are so gender biased you consciously stated male and firmly believing dismissing all female tennis accomplishments as inconsequential to the conquests of men
8. I highlighted this in my response to demonstrate that There definitely is discrimination in sport because you did it in your response based on gender. Or possibly race as well ASS Serena happens to be black as well. Race and gender discrimination both occur in similar patterns among the same people.
9. You chose to reply with the main argument that you cannot compare the accomplishments of men and women. I assume this is purely driven by gender bias or an attempt to grasp for an argument.
10. I would like to point out that there are millions of occurrences of sport enthusiasts trying to compare athletes that have never before faced each other directly. I will name a few. Male tennis players that have won in the past to current. Tennis players that played with wood rackets vs. graphite, old baseball players vs. new. Athletes that juiced vs. those that didn't. Basketball vs. tennis. Jordan v. Lebron. So I fail to see how you cannot find a way to compare Federer and Serena.
11. I can postulate several reasons:
A) overt discrimination
B) you are silently racist/unconsciously biased
C). You are grasping at straws to defend your statement


You seem so desperate to find a way to inject racism or sexism into a my stance that you have still failed to comprehend the fairly simple thing I was trying to say, which is that Roger is a bad comparison for EDD.
I agree that GWH is a fair tag for EDD, but the fact is that as good as she is, she hasn't achieved enough yet to be talked about in the same sentence as the actual greats. Thus the letter H in GWH.
Roger, on the other hand, has. If you want to dispute either of those things then please give it your best shot.
If you want to talk about random tangential things then be my guest as well. But stop trying to mix the two.




Quote:
1. Conversation started as EDD being the great white hope
Which I agree with
Quote:
2. People began to indicate that there isn't Discrimination based on race favoring EDD and generalized it to sports in general.
I disagree that there isn't discrimination based on race.
Quote:
3. I stated there is. I compared her to Federer because he is exalted among the elitist waspy tennis fans who I could go on for hours examples of the ways they perpetuate racism.
Maybe he is exalted among those type of people, but he is also exalted by everyone else, because he is one of the best ever.
Quote:
4. I said that these same fans don't treat the Williams with any sort of similar reverence or even respect.
It's a real stretch IMO to say that fans who recognise Rogers's greatness - i.e. nearly all fans - do not respect Williams. I'd love to know your rationale or see your data that led you to that theory.
Quote:
5. You chose to rush to the altar of Federer and defend him as the Goat. My statement again was that his worshippers chose to worship him because he fits the profile they have been hoping for
I'm comparing Roger's goat credentials to EDD's, since that is the comparison that YOU are making. Result: it's not even close. If you disagree, feel free to explain how.
Quote:
6. In your reply, you dismissed Serena via unconscious discrimination by thoughtlessly typing the word male
I already explained why I typed the word male. If you still don't get it, that's on you. Or are you claiming that Serena would beat Roger in a tennis match? Because unless you are, I think their relative achievements are best compared based in the context of how they actually achieved them - i.e. against their own gender.
Quote:
7. OR, you are so gender biased you consciously stated male and firmly believing dismissing all female tennis accomplishments as inconsequential to the conquests of men
Yeah, that must be it. That's why I'm an admin of a women's basketball forum and have 17000+ posts here. It's why I travel from Australia to the USA to watch WNBA matches. Because I think female accomplishments are inconsequential.
Seriously, the real answers are not so complicated. The simplest answer is often the actual one, especially when you're dealing with a simple person!
Quote:
8. I highlighted this in my response to demonstrate that There definitely is discrimination in sport because you did it in your response based on gender. Or possibly race as well ASS Serena happens to be black as well. Race and gender discrimination both occur in similar patterns among the same people.
I'm not denying that there is discrimination in sport. It's kind of obvious to me that there is.
Quote:
9. You chose to reply with the main argument that you cannot compare the accomplishments of men and women. I assume this is purely driven by gender bias or an attempt to grasp for an argument.
There's no need for you to assume anything when you can just ask and receive an answer. Comparing women & men is like comparing point guards to power forwards. It's not always so easy to make direct comparisons between players who don't actually compete directly against each other.
Quote:
10. I would like to point out that there are millions of occurrences of sport enthusiasts trying to compare athletes that have never before faced each other directly. I will name a few. Male tennis players that have won in the past to current. Tennis players that played with wood rackets vs. graphite, old baseball players vs. new. Athletes that juiced vs. those that didn't. Basketball vs. tennis. Jordan v. Lebron. So I fail to see how you cannot find a way to compare Federer and Serena.

Personally I am happy to find ways to compare them if I actually feel any need to. I haven't done so yet because it has nothing to do with the actual point I was making, which is that Roger has a good case as the GOAT, whereas EDD doesn't. Since it's not even close to me, that's where it ends.
Serena has a good case as the GOAT as well. As I mentioned here. But since that is not central to my point I didn't delve into that any further.

Quote:
11. I can postulate several reasons
Clearly you need to continue postulating.
Oh, and I notice you suddenly stopped mentioning Venus Williams now. Why is that?



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PostPosted: 05/29/17 8:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Somebody is griping that they think Elena Delle Donne - a white female - gets more attention than she deserves versus her counterpart black females in the WNBA. Talking about a white MALE tennis player getting more attention than black FEMALE tennis players is an invalid analogy as not just the race, but the sex is different. We all know that male sports players get more reverence than female. Plus, I think women tennis fans gave white Martina Navratilova less love than her less successful white counterparts due to her having a more muscular physique. Serena Williams is even more powerfully built than Navratilova. So there's that as well.


If I was going to try to pull a Skyfan22 and attempt a black-white thing using a tennis analogy, I think a much better example would be Williams - Sharapova.



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readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 05/29/17 8:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Skyfan22 wrote:
Wow. Someone is obviously using strained bits of reason to get to a point.
1. Conversation started as EDD being the great white hope
2. People began to indicate that there isn't Discrimination based on race favoring EDD and generalized it to sports in general.
3. I stated there is. I compared her to Federer because he is exalted among the elitist waspy tennis fans who I could go on for hours examples of the ways they perpetuate racism.
4. I said that these same fans don't treat the Williams with any sort of similar reverence or even respect.
5. You chose to rush to the altar of Federer and defend him as the Goat. My statement again was that his worshippers chose to worship him because he fits the profile they have been hoping for
6. In your reply, you dismissed Serena via unconscious discrimination by thoughtlessly typing the word male
7. OR, you are so gender biased you consciously stated male and firmly believing dismissing all female tennis accomplishments as inconsequential to the conquests of men
8. I highlighted this in my response to demonstrate that There definitely is discrimination in sport because you did it in your response based on gender. Or possibly race as well ASS Serena happens to be black as well. Race and gender discrimination both occur in similar patterns among the same people.
9. You chose to reply with the main argument that you cannot compare the accomplishments of men and women. I assume this is purely driven by gender bias or an attempt to grasp for an argument.
10. I would like to point out that there are millions of occurrences of sport enthusiasts trying to compare athletes that have never before faced each other directly. I will name a few. Male tennis players that have won in the past to current. Tennis players that played with wood rackets vs. graphite, old baseball players vs. new. Athletes that juiced vs. those that didn't. Basketball vs. tennis. Jordan v. Lebron. So I fail to see how you cannot find a way to compare Federer and Serena.
11. I can postulate several reasons:
A) overt discrimination
B) you are silently racist/unconsciously biased
C). You are grasping at straws to defend your statement


You seem so desperate to find a way to inject racism or sexism into a my stance that you have still failed to comprehend the fairly simple thing I was trying to say, which is that Roger is a bad comparison for EDD.
I agree that GWH is a fair tag for EDD, but the fact is that as good as she is, she hasn't achieved enough yet to be talked about in the same sentence as the actual greats. Thus the letter H in GWH.
Roger, on the other hand, has. If you want to dispute either of those things then please give it your best shot.
If you want to talk about random tangential things then be my guest as well. But stop trying to mix the two.




Quote:
1. Conversation started as EDD being the great white hope
Which I agree with
Quote:
2. People began to indicate that there isn't Discrimination based on race favoring EDD and generalized it to sports in general.
I disagree that there isn't discrimination based on race.
Quote:
3. I stated there is. I compared her to Federer because he is exalted among the elitist waspy tennis fans who I could go on for hours examples of the ways they perpetuate racism.
Maybe he is exalted among those type of people, but he is also exalted by everyone else, because he is one of the best ever.
Quote:
4. I said that these same fans don't treat the Williams with any sort of similar reverence or even respect.
It's a real stretch IMO to say that fans who recognise Rogers's greatness - i.e. nearly all fans - do not respect Williams. I'd love to know your rationale or see your data that led you to that theory.
Quote:
5. You chose to rush to the altar of Federer and defend him as the Goat. My statement again was that his worshippers chose to worship him because he fits the profile they have been hoping for
I'm comparing Roger's goat credentials to EDD's, since that is the comparison that YOU are making. Result: it's not even close. If you disagree, feel free to explain how.
Quote:
6. In your reply, you dismissed Serena via unconscious discrimination by thoughtlessly typing the word male
I already explained why I typed the word male. If you still don't get it, that's on you. Or are you claiming that Serena would beat Roger in a tennis match? Because unless you are, I think their relative achievements are best compared based in the context of how they actually achieved them - i.e. against their own gender.
Quote:
7. OR, you are so gender biased you consciously stated male and firmly believing dismissing all female tennis accomplishments as inconsequential to the conquests of men
Yeah, that must be it. That's why I'm an admin of a women's basketball forum and have 17000+ posts here. It's why I travel from Australia to the USA to watch WNBA matches. Because I think female accomplishments are inconsequential.
Seriously, the real answers are not so complicated. The simplest answer is often the actual one, especially when you're dealing with a simple person!
Quote:
8. I highlighted this in my response to demonstrate that There definitely is discrimination in sport because you did it in your response based on gender. Or possibly race as well ASS Serena happens to be black as well. Race and gender discrimination both occur in similar patterns among the same people.
I'm not denying that there is discrimination in sport. It's kind of obvious to me that there is.
Quote:
9. You chose to reply with the main argument that you cannot compare the accomplishments of men and women. I assume this is purely driven by gender bias or an attempt to grasp for an argument.
There's no need for you to assume anything when you can just ask and receive an answer. Comparing women & men is like comparing point guards to power forwards. It's not always so easy to make direct comparisons between players who don't actually compete directly against each other.
Quote:
10. I would like to point out that there are millions of occurrences of sport enthusiasts trying to compare athletes that have never before faced each other directly. I will name a few. Male tennis players that have won in the past to current. Tennis players that played with wood rackets vs. graphite, old baseball players vs. new. Athletes that juiced vs. those that didn't. Basketball vs. tennis. Jordan v. Lebron. So I fail to see how you cannot find a way to compare Federer and Serena.

Personally I am happy to find ways to compare them if I actually feel any need to. I haven't done so yet because it has nothing to do with the actual point I was making, which is that Roger has a good case as the GOAT, whereas EDD doesn't. Since it's not even close to me, that's where it ends.
Serena has a good case as the GOAT as well. As I mentioned here. But since that is not central to my point I didn't delve into that any further.

Quote:
11. I can postulate several reasons
Clearly you need to continue postulating.
Oh, and I notice you suddenly stopped mentioning Venus Williams now. Why is that?


Well done Luuuc.There are infinite ways racism is expressed everywhere. Nobody disputes that. Thank you for answering point by point.

Serena is DEF the GOAT in women's tennis. Martina, Steffi, now Serena. The strongest woman to ever play the game.



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RavenDog



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PostPosted: 05/29/17 8:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Skyfan22 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
racism exists. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. It's sad but it's a fact. Misogyny also exists. It's sad but it's a fact. Discrimination of all kinds exists. It's up to all of us to do whatever we can to dump that shit in the toilet as soon as possible.

I don't think belittling a white woman's accomplishments because she is white helps get us there. And to me calling someone the Great White Hope is doing just that. If someone came on here and called Nneka, as an example, the Great Black Hope, we would all be pissed off about it. Just because racism exists in society as a whole, I don't see why we have to be that way here. Reverse racism is just as bad. Can't we just celebrate these women's accomplishments, which are amazing no matter how you look at it, without playing the race card.

JMO.


Reverse racism is just as bad? It's not. It's not even close. History has demonstrated the severity of the effects of the maltreatment of blacks. The reverse is nowhere close to the same thing. Nowhere. To indicate that it is undermines attempts to correct current social mores


Besides labeling others as racists and misogynists, what positive things are you doing to help amelerate these problems, I.e., working with children of various races to properly educate them on these matters etc.?


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PostPosted: 05/29/17 8:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
tfan wrote:
Somebody is griping that they think Elena Delle Donne - a white female - gets more attention than she deserves versus her counterpart black females in the WNBA. Talking about a white MALE tennis player getting more attention than black FEMALE tennis players is an invalid analogy as not just the race, but the sex is different. We all know that male sports players get more reverence than female. Plus, I think women tennis fans gave white Martina Navratilova less love than her less successful white counterparts due to her having a more muscular physique. Serena Williams is even more powerfully built than Navratilova. So there's that as well.


If I was going to try to pull a Skyfan22 and attempt a black-white thing using a tennis analogy, I think a much better example would be Williams - Sharapova.


Really. I think this is one of the rare situations where an analysis factoring in sexism *and* racism is *not* called for. Keep the variables to a minimum.

(although, for what it's worth, I prefer "Fragile Special Snowflake" for Delle Donne)



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PostPosted: 05/29/17 8:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Well done Luuuc.There are infinite ways racism is expressed everywhere. Nobody disputes that. Thank you for answering point by point.

Serena is DEF the GOAT in women's tennis. Martina, Steffi, now Serena. The strongest woman to ever play the game.


Yeah, IMO it's not even close anymore re: Serena.
Some argue that the lack of depth of womens talent makes Serena's record look better, whereas I think it's more like she is so extraordinarily good that she makes the competition appear second-rate by comparison.
The selfish fan in me is just sad that the pregnancy happened now because I really want Serena's name at the top of the grand slam titles list.


Queenie wrote:
Really. I think this is one of the rare situations where an analysis factoring in sexism *and* racism is *not* called for. Keep the variables to a minimum.

The engineer in me has the same approach.



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PostPosted: 05/29/17 8:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not denying racism exists nor am I going to deny that Delle Donne's tall white blond looks garner her more attention than many of her counterparts. But I think when it comes to the WNBA it is a bit more of "masculine" vs "feminine." Skylar Diggins is able to make a very good living without going overseas. She was featured in magazine spreads in a way even Delle Donne wasn't (until the coming out ones). Candace Parker and Lisa Leslie were also featured. I feel it was because for all their power they didn't show the muscles in quite the way Tamika Catchings did.

That said, it always annoyed me that Delle Donne seemed to be the token WNBA player in all those Nike commercials. They had variety with the men so why not pull out any of their other stable of WNBA signings? Yes, I do thinks race and beauty played a significant part there.


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PostPosted: 05/30/17 9:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Skyfan22 wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
Skyfan22, I am just having fun on this message board. My immediate championship hopes died when the GWH nailed that coffin shut when she packed her bags and moved to Washington. I also know for a fact that none of the 2018 draft prospects will turn the Chicago Sky into an instant championship contender.


I know your sense of humor. I generally find your post quite entertaining, except when you opine for the Packers 🤢 . Oh look, the Ill emoji comes in Packer green.

We spent a long time in Chicago as ardent supporters so I know the suffering entailed with being a Sky fan. In spite of EDDs alleged philanthropic endeavors, she always seemed so distant when we would go to season tix holder events. She was just so icy ❄️! Other expletives come to mind but I will refrain. All the other players seemed to go out of their way to be nice and seemingly genuinely so. She seems to be the epitome of entitled millennial and it does not surprise me a bit she fled at the 1st chance she got. I was such a supporter of the Sky drafting her. In hindsight, they should've taken Diggy. But mercifully they didn't cuz now that we're in Dallas, we get to watch her play with enthusiasm. Diggy at the season tix open practice was very engaging and playful. None of that ice queen chill you get by being in the same time zone as E. I didn't think her flight perturbed me so until I saw the Seattle game and found myself staunchly in the corner of a team that has somehow captured 4 overall #1 draft picks.

what does GWH stand for anyway?


I hate to sound like a bitter fan who's star player just left (because I'm really not surprised or bummed about EDD's departure) but I, too, had very similar interactions. I ran into Cappie and TYoung in public and they couldn't have been nicer. EDD, was a bit different to say the least.

Anyways, what can we get in a trade for Breland?



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 05/30/17 10:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bullsky wrote:
Anyways, what can we get in a trade for Breland?

Why do you want to give up basically the only 4 on the roster?



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mavcarter
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PostPosted: 05/30/17 11:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
bullsky wrote:
Anyways, what can we get in a trade for Breland?

Why do you want to give up basically the only 4 on the roster?


Because she's not being used in her natural position I guess.



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PostPosted: 05/30/17 11:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
bullsky wrote:
Anyways, what can we get in a trade for Breland?

Why do you want to give up basically the only 4 on the roster?


Because she's not being used in her natural position I guess.

She mostly has been in recent games. Stocks appears to have no fucking clue what to do with her rotation, but one way or another she's largely ended up as a 4 the last few games.

I don't see what you'd get back for Breland that'd be more useful to the Sky than Breland herself.



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PostPosted: 05/30/17 11:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
I don't see what you'd get back for Breland that'd be more useful to the Sky than Breland herself.


Agreed.



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PostPosted: 05/30/17 11:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
mavcarter wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
bullsky wrote:
Anyways, what can we get in a trade for Breland?

Why do you want to give up basically the only 4 on the roster?


Because she's not being used in her natural position I guess.

She mostly has been in recent games. Stocks appears to have no fucking clue what to do with her rotation, but one way or another she's largely ended up as a 4 the last few games.

I don't see what you'd get back for Breland that'd be more useful to the Sky than Breland herself.


Tell it like it is bro! You could appropriately post that in the SAS thread as well.



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bullsky



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PostPosted: 05/30/17 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
I don't see what you'd get back for Breland that'd be more useful to the Sky than Breland herself.


Agreed.


That answers my question.



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PostPosted: 05/31/17 1:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So your point is that Roger is the greatest male of all time and therefore he cannot be compared to EDD as she's not the greatest. My point as she is the GWH. New to GWH analysis, I'd think the H stands for hope. As fans hope their GWH is their trump card in a racist debate. Actually being the best does not necessarily need to factor into the debate.

My sample size is me sitting in Arthur Ashe year after year hearing and seeing fans and line refs screw Serena so that capriati wins in 2004.

My angst is at silent discrimination. Obviously, most fans on this board are very supportive. But, it's a place to release frustrations. Even in women's basketball racial disparity serves to handicap the players.


Luuuc wrote:
Skyfan22 wrote:
Wow. Someone is obviously using strained bits of reason to get to a point.
1. Conversation started as EDD being the great white hope
2. People began to indicate that there isn't Discrimination based on race favoring EDD and generalized it to sports in general.
3. I stated there is. I compared her to Federer because he is exalted among the elitist waspy tennis fans who I could go on for hours examples of the ways they perpetuate racism.
4. I said that these same fans don't treat the Williams with any sort of similar reverence or even respect.
5. You chose to rush to the altar of Federer and defend him as the Goat. My statement again was that his worshippers chose to worship him because he fits the profile they have been hoping for
6. In your reply, you dismissed Serena via unconscious discrimination by thoughtlessly typing the word male
7. OR, you are so gender biased you consciously stated male and firmly believing dismissing all female tennis accomplishments as inconsequential to the conquests of men
8. I highlighted this in my response to demonstrate that There definitely is discrimination in sport because you did it in your response based on gender. Or possibly race as well ASS Serena happens to be black as well. Race and gender discrimination both occur in similar patterns among the same people.
9. You chose to reply with the main argument that you cannot compare the accomplishments of men and women. I assume this is purely driven by gender bias or an attempt to grasp for an argument.
10. I would like to point out that there are millions of occurrences of sport enthusiasts trying to compare athletes that have never before faced each other directly. I will name a few. Male tennis players that have won in the past to current. Tennis players that played with wood rackets vs. graphite, old baseball players vs. new. Athletes that juiced vs. those that didn't. Basketball vs. tennis. Jordan v. Lebron. So I fail to see how you cannot find a way to compare Federer and Serena.
11. I can postulate several reasons:
A) overt discrimination
B) you are silently racist/unconsciously biased
C). You are grasping at straws to defend your statement


You seem so desperate to find a way to inject racism or sexism into a my stance that you have still failed to comprehend the fairly simple thing I was trying to say, which is that Roger is a bad comparison for EDD.
I agree that GWH is a fair tag for EDD, but the fact is that as good as she is, she hasn't achieved enough yet to be talked about in the same sentence as the actual greats. Thus the letter H in GWH.
Roger, on the other hand, has. If you want to dispute either of those things then please give it your best shot.
If you want to talk about random tangential things then be my guest as well. But stop trying to mix the two.




Quote:
1. Conversation started as EDD being the great white hope
Which I agree with
Quote:
2. People began to indicate that there isn't Discrimination based on race favoring EDD and generalized it to sports in general.
I disagree that there isn't discrimination based on race.
Quote:
3. I stated there is. I compared her to Federer because he is exalted among the elitist waspy tennis fans who I could go on for hours examples of the ways they perpetuate racism.
Maybe he is exalted among those type of people, but he is also exalted by everyone else, because he is one of the best ever.
Quote:
4. I said that these same fans don't treat the Williams with any sort of similar reverence or even respect.
It's a real stretch IMO to say that fans who recognise Rogers's greatness - i.e. nearly all fans - do not respect Williams. I'd love to know your rationale or see your data that led you to that theory.
Quote:
5. You chose to rush to the altar of Federer and defend him as the Goat. My statement again was that his worshippers chose to worship him because he fits the profile they have been hoping for
I'm comparing Roger's goat credentials to EDD's, since that is the comparison that YOU are making. Result: it's not even close. If you disagree, feel free to explain how.
Quote:
6. In your reply, you dismissed Serena via unconscious discrimination by thoughtlessly typing the word male
I already explained why I typed the word male. If you still don't get it, that's on you. Or are you claiming that Serena would beat Roger in a tennis match? Because unless you are, I think their relative achievements are best compared based in the context of how they actually achieved them - i.e. against their own gender.
Quote:
7. OR, you are so gender biased you consciously stated male and firmly believing dismissing all female tennis accomplishments as inconsequential to the conquests of men
Yeah, that must be it. That's why I'm an admin of a women's basketball forum and have 17000+ posts here. It's why I travel from Australia to the USA to watch WNBA matches. Because I think female accomplishments are inconsequential.
Seriously, the real answers are not so complicated. The simplest answer is often the actual one, especially when you're dealing with a simple person!
Quote:
8. I highlighted this in my response to demonstrate that There definitely is discrimination in sport because you did it in your response based on gender. Or possibly race as well ASS Serena happens to be black as well. Race and gender discrimination both occur in similar patterns among the same people.
I'm not denying that there is discrimination in sport. It's kind of obvious to me that there is.
Quote:
9. You chose to reply with the main argument that you cannot compare the accomplishments of men and women. I assume this is purely driven by gender bias or an attempt to grasp for an argument.
There's no need for you to assume anything when you can just ask and receive an answer. Comparing women & men is like comparing point guards to power forwards. It's not always so easy to make direct comparisons between players who don't actually compete directly against each other.
Quote:
10. I would like to point out that there are millions of occurrences of sport enthusiasts trying to compare athletes that have never before faced each other directly. I will name a few. Male tennis players that have won in the past to current. Tennis players that played with wood rackets vs. graphite, old baseball players vs. new. Athletes that juiced vs. those that didn't. Basketball vs. tennis. Jordan v. Lebron. So I fail to see how you cannot find a way to compare Federer and Serena.

Personally I am happy to find ways to compare them if I actually feel any need to. I haven't done so yet because it has nothing to do with the actual point I was making, which is that Roger has a good case as the GOAT, whereas EDD doesn't. Since it's not even close to me, that's where it ends.
Serena has a good case as the GOAT as well. As I mentioned here. But since that is not central to my point I didn't delve into that any further.

Quote:
11. I can postulate several reasons
Clearly you need to continue postulating.
Oh, and I notice you suddenly stopped mentioning Venus Williams now. Why is that?


Skyfan22



Joined: 12 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 05/31/17 1:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RavenDog wrote:
Skyfan22 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
racism exists. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. It's sad but it's a fact. Misogyny also exists. It's sad but it's a fact. Discrimination of all kinds exists. It's up to all of us to do whatever we can to dump that shit in the toilet as soon as possible.

I don't think belittling a white woman's accomplishments because she is white helps get us there. And to me calling someone the Great White Hope is doing just that. If someone came on here and called Nneka, as an example, the Great Black Hope, we would all be pissed off about it. Just because racism exists in society as a whole, I don't see why we have to be that way here. Reverse racism is just as bad. Can't we just celebrate these women's accomplishments, which are amazing no matter how you look at it, without playing the race card.



JMO.


Reverse racism is just as bad? It's not. It's not even close. History has demonstrated the severity of the effects of the maltreatment of blacks. The reverse is nowhere close to the same thing. Nowhere. To indicate that it is undermines attempts to correct current social mores


Besides labeling others as racists and misogynists, what positive things are you doing to help amelerate these problems, I.e., working with children of various races to properly educate them on these matters etc.?


Let's see. I've adopted 2 African American children. I donate to several charities supporting African Americans. We pay yearly for my child's basketball team to attend a WNBA game. We ourselves, while in Chicago we're Yearly courtside ticket holders paying 5k to support women's hoops. Now in Dallas we are row 2 paying nearly the same. We were the only people in our suburb of TX with Hillary pins, stickers and a sign in the yard, which I had to replace on several occasions. I vote in every election and do everything I can to motivate other liberals to vote at every opportunity. Furthermore, we are the only openly gay, 3 raced family I know in the suburbs of Texas. We hold ourselves out as what we are and my partner and our children have generally been very well accepted. So, in total, I would say I have contributed a lot.

So I thank you for calling me an asshole for highlighting instances that may well indicate covert biases. But, they exist everywhere and need addressing if we ever want to eliminate discrimination


Rock Hard



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 05/31/17 7:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm changing the name of my team from the Chicago Sky to the Chicago Masons. What they do best is shoot bricks. Confused



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stever



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PostPosted: 06/03/17 12:11 pm    ::: Courtney Vandersloot won’t slow down Reply Reply with quote

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/jun/02/former-gonzaga-womens-basketball-star-courtney-van/



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sigur3



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: 06/08/17 4:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sloot officially leaves.

Sky sign Shayla Cooper.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 06/08/17 4:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sigur3 wrote:
Sloot officially leaves.

Sky sign Shayla Cooper.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So they re-signed the player that they previously cut a week before it was necessary? That makes total sense and Amber Stocks clearly knows exactly what she's doing.



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lynxmania



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PostPosted: 06/08/17 4:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Poor Tori couldn't get signed back but Cooper could Laughing

STOCK GM OF THE YEAR!


toad455



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PostPosted: 06/08/17 5:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That's a surprise. Cooper over Jankoska.



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