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awhom111



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PostPosted: 05/16/17 8:56 pm    ::: 2017 TV Ratings Reply Reply with quote

The ESPN opener averaged 346,000 viewers. As posted in the other thread, the comparable Twitter number was 62,459.

That number was beaten by at least 3 college softball conference championship games that day.

The lower numbers will not be as accessible this season because sportstvratings.com is no longer doing daily ratings. If I see numbers from any other sources, I will post them. We might be able to get local FSSW ratings for the Wings.
awhom111



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PostPosted: 05/19/17 7:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lynx-Liberty averaged 215,000 viewers on ESPN2.
awhom111



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PostPosted: 06/01/17 11:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sparks-Liberty averaged 170,000 on ESPN2.
awhom111



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PostPosted: 06/08/17 11:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I guess I forgot to post this due to post-Warriors euphoria.

Mystics-Wings averaged 158,000 on ESPN2 on Tuesday. The deciding game of the Women's College World Series at the same time on ESPN averaged 1,739,000 viewers.
snlMINAJ



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PostPosted: 06/09/17 4:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

yikes


awhom111



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PostPosted: 06/26/17 8:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mystics-Lynx on Friday averaged 195,000 viewers.

For those of you who wonder why they don't get put on main ESPN, the College World Series game at that time averaged 1,049,000 viewers.
MuneravenMN
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PostPosted: 06/27/17 9:04 pm    ::: I have a Bad Feeling Reply Reply with quote

I am seeing far less interest in the league. There are less people talking online. There are less people watching on TV. When my knee was too banged up to manage the stairs at the game we couldn't give our seats away. Seriously. Nobody wanted good seats to a winning WNBA team. And Flash seats aren't selling.

It's very strange. I mean people still go to Lynx games but...I just have a bad feeling about the league.

We were talking about it the other day and we added up the cost to see the Lynx here in MN. Parking is $15. Tickets are $90 a game. Two bottles of water cost $12. If you want a burger and fries downtown add in another $30. Call it $150 with gas. That is a lot of money, at least to me. How many people are willing to pay that to see a WNBA game? Our seats are average, not great, btw.

I don't know. I just feel like the league is really not doing well right now. Am I wrong?



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 06/28/17 12:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am watching several indicators VERY closely right now. TV ratings are hard to come by this year but they seem down and by a significant margin (this is from a very small pool of data however so it may not be accurate). Attendance is not what the teams wanted (even with the usual inflation of numbers). Looking at craigslist ads it doesn't seem there is much interest in the tickets put up for sale there. I'm watching a few other things as well.
The real concern is the fact that just about all indicators of success are going in the wrong direction this year, and this after the vaunted 2016 "Watch Me Work" campaign that saturated the NBA playoffs with advertising and other marketing events. Despite Lisa Border's claims of unprecedented success I was personally skeptical of her claims (I think she felt she needed to show something big during her first year). What with the first half of this season failing to really show any growth I stand by my skepticism.
Nevertheless it is not yet time to panic. Lets see what the All Star game can draw and the 2nd half of the season. There is simply not enough data yet to draw any real accurate conclusions. However I am thinking that Ms. Wiggins opinion piece may have done some damage.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/28/17 11:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I do sense a shift in interest in the league, but such things happen and it isn't necessarily about the sport as a whole but rather the specific circumstances of the specific year.

That said, my biggest concern is the hollowing out of the talent pool at the lower levels due to rising participation in volleyball, water polo and to a lesser extent, lacrosse. What makes the games attractive are the players, and if elite athletes are choosing other sports instead of basketball, then there will be fewer stars that catch fans' eyes.

As for Wiggins, I don't know that what she said is any different than what's been said for years about the league being heavily lesbian -- which is true -- and the counter to that is that there is a growing societal acceptance of LGBT activities.

But assuming the talent keeps flowing, my guess would be this is a normal dip that most businesses go through at one point or another, not a symptom of a fatal disease.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/28/17 11:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think it always depends on the draft. That's what starts the off the league every year. This 2017 draft was terrible. The top three picks haven't done anything. There's no excitement for this season. The most exciting thing to happen was Delle Donne going to Washington. Half the teams in the league are terrible. Attendance is notably way down. I think with next year's stacked draft class we'll see an increase in visibility. The playoffs this year should be exciting. Minnesota's the favorite, but reigning champs the Sparks plus New York & Washington could make the semifinals & finals very exciting.



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 06/28/17 3:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Eastern Europe is the next biggest basketball playing area to the US. Having spent a lot of time in Eastern Europe I notice that volleyball is a LOT more popular than basketball among women. I don't know why, its just how it works out there.



ClayK wrote:
I do sense a shift in interest in the league, but such things happen and it isn't necessarily about the sport as a whole but rather the specific circumstances of the specific year.

That said, my biggest concern is the hollowing out of the talent pool at the lower levels due to rising participation in volleyball, water polo and to a lesser extent, lacrosse. What makes the games attractive are the players, and if elite athletes are choosing other sports instead of basketball, then there will be fewer stars that catch fans' eyes.

As for Wiggins, I don't know that what she said is any different than what's been said for years about the league being heavily lesbian -- which is true -- and the counter to that is that there is a growing societal acceptance of LGBT activities.

But assuming the talent keeps flowing, my guess would be this is a normal dip that most businesses go through at one point or another, not a symptom of a fatal disease.


tfan



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PostPosted: 06/28/17 3:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't know if this was posted by I was just doing a search for Lisa Borders and found this article that I haven't seen:

Borders promises expansion, but wants league stability first

Quote:
“What I’ve always said is, when we have full arenas in all 12 markets, or attendance is increasing, then we will look at expansion,” she said.


That only makes sense to me if you look at the TV contract having to get divided up amongst the teams - more teams mean existing teams get less. But otherwise, attendance in Atlanta won't affect attendance in San Francisco. ESPN would probably like expansion as I would expect more teams to increase TV ratings.

40% of the twitter views of the games are from outside the US: The idea for twitter broadcasts came from Jewell Loyd.

Quote:
Of that audience — which has averaged around 950,000 for the first four games this season — approximately 40 percent of viewers were outside the United States
.




Last edited by tfan on 06/28/17 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 06/28/17 3:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

More hot air from Borders. Unless things change there just doesn't seem to be a profit in organizing and owning a WNBA team. Even for an NBA team that is extra work and man hours for what is not a lot of extra profit (even in the best of years). Now is profit the ONLY reason to operate a sports team? No, but it HAS TO BE A CONSIDERATION.
I am not sure if it would make any difference in ratings (which are basically a rounding error) but that would require TV money to be split up more than it is now, which could be harmful to the less well positioned teams. And with ESPN's current troubles mounting (and fast) you can be assured they won't give another penny for WNBA games. Once again I think the WNBA's main troubles stem from extremely faulty marketing and an insane glut on the sports entertainment market (there are only so many hours one can watch sports during the day).


MuneravenMN
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PostPosted: 06/28/17 4:37 pm    ::: Bad League Management and Bad Team Management Reply Reply with quote

Caveat: Soccer is a different beast. BUT...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soccer-insider/wp/2017/06/24/portland-thorns-fan-support-is-unlike-anything-else-in-womens-soccer/?utm_term=.252b13044f33

So why is women's soccer in Portland attracting big crowds of rabid fans while the WNBA can't even sustain the interest of people who want to be rabid fans?

I think this league has taken a whole series of wrong turns. I think they get almost everything wrong, from how they promote the league ("Hey look we work out!") to the amateur hour draft coverage. I think they often play in too-large venues and too often have lousy play-by-play and color on TV. I think the uniforms are dull. I think most teams have really clever in-arena promos but nobody ever sees them unless they go to the game! Use them to PROMOTE the players and the team!

I think the WNBA looks drab and boring to most people. Where is the creativity in promoting this sport? And why isn't the league trying to promote FAN solidarity and activities? They don't even try. Sigh.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/28/17 4:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Thorns are in a league of their own. The NWSL is basically being held up by the three MLS-owned teams(Portland, Orlando & Houston). The non-MLS owned teams in the NWSL are averaging between 4,200-2,200 only. With that being said, it was once rumored that the Timbers/Thorns were interested in the WNBA and bringing back the Portland Fire. I would love it if this were to be true.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/28/17 4:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In regards to expansion, I think Borders is closely watching Dallas & Atlanta and their ownership. If those two can get stable, we'll see expansion. Otherwise, I think Joe Lacob is on hold in case either the Wings or Dream owners pull the plug.



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Admiral_Needa



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PostPosted: 06/28/17 5:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
“That global footprint is being amplified by what we’re doing on all the platforms, but specifically Twitter.”

That suggestion, she said, came from a conversation with Storm guard Jewell Loyd.

I didn’t even know that was an option on Twitter,” she said. “She’s young, I don’t know everything about these things. I listen to our players. So, I brought that back to the attorneys at the league, and 56 days later, we had a Twitter deal.”




Quote:
Idea Arrow
NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE AND TWITTER ANNOUNCE STREAMING PARTNERSHIP FOR THURSDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL

Twitter to stream 10 Thursday Night Football games globally
Posted Apr 5, 2016


Twitter’s global head of sports partnerships Laura Froelich said that the live streaming deal with the NFL went “incredibly well,” noting increases in viewership each week and positive comments from fans.

Average viewership for the eight remaining games ranged from 2.6 million to 3.1 million

https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/National-Football-League-and-Twitter-Announce-Streaming-Partnership-for-Thursday-Night-Football.aspx
https://www.geekwire.com/2017/twitter-says-live-streaming-nfl-games-went-incredibly-well-no-word-deal-next-season/



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Admiral_Needa



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PostPosted: 06/28/17 5:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
In regards to expansion, I think Borders is closely watching Dallas & Atlanta and their ownership. If those two can get stable, we'll see expansion. Otherwise, I think Joe Lacob is on hold in case either the Wings or Dream owners pull the plug.




Or, to put it another way, Lacob is holding out until the Wings or Dream owners pull the plug.. I'm not a fan of an expansion draft either... Idea



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Shades



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PostPosted: 06/28/17 5:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I haven't seen any indication of the Wings going under. Where is that coming from? I'm surprised ATL hasn't gone under for a while now, but they're still around. Must be dedicated owners.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 06/28/17 5:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
I haven't seen any indication of the Wings going under. Where is that coming from?


Team was moved by one of the Tulsa majority owners. Attendance is poor after the move and the team President got the boot in less than a year on the job. They moved partly for more corporate sponsors and that may be the case, but one thing for sure is that they had a jersey sponsor in Tulsa, but don't have one in Dallas.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/28/17 6:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
I haven't seen any indication of the Wings going under. Where is that coming from? I'm surprised ATL hasn't gone under for a while now, but they're still around. Must be dedicated owners.


A Few delusional posters on here using attendance in only there 2nd season as the benchmark for failed franchise already Rolling Eyes



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/29/17 2:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
the WNBA's main troubles stem from extremely faulty marketing


Quote:
I think they get almost everything wrong, from how they promote the league


So what should the league be doing?

My sense is that the vast majority of potential fans of the WNBA have been exposed to the product on TV, so it's not as if marketing will reach an untapped source of supporters.

And in the end, it's the product itself that attracts customers/viewers, not a clever advertising campaign. If the previous marketing has exposed the potential customer base to the product, then what else can be done except to improve the product?

And the best way to improve this particular product, in my view, is to raise the quality of play. That will not happen if expansion dilutes the existing talent, and in fact contraction would probably be the best path to an improved product. (That same argument has been used in MLB and NFL and the NBA when there are complaints about the quality of play.)

On the other hand, the WNBA is strongest in markets where it has a franchise. Without a franchise in the Bay Area, for example, the league is all but invisible. When one arrives in 2019 or 2020, most likely an Atlanta relocation if attendance is any guide, all of a sudden folks will know about.

From that perspective, expansion would help the league, but at what point would diluting the talent base make the product on the floor less attractive?



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tfan



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PostPosted: 06/29/17 3:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Quote:
the WNBA's main troubles stem from extremely faulty marketing


Quote:
I think they get almost everything wrong, from how they promote the league


So what should the league be doing?

My sense is that the vast majority of potential fans of the WNBA have been exposed to the product on TV, so it's not as if marketing will reach an untapped source of supporters.

And in the end, it's the product itself that attracts customers/viewers, not a clever advertising campaign. If the previous marketing has exposed the potential customer base to the product, then what else can be done except to improve the product?

And the best way to improve this particular product, in my view, is to raise the quality of play. That will not happen if expansion dilutes the existing talent, and in fact contraction would probably be the best path to an improved product. (That same argument has been used in MLB and NFL and the NBA when there are complaints about the quality of play.)

On the other hand, the WNBA is strongest in markets where it has a franchise. Without a franchise in the Bay Area, for example, the league is all but invisible. When one arrives in 2019 or 2020, most likely an Atlanta relocation if attendance is any guide, all of a sudden folks will know about.

From that perspective, expansion would help the league, but at what point would diluting the talent base make the product on the floor less attractive?


Do you have an opinion on why attendance and ratings are lower than they were a decade or more ago?


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PostPosted: 06/29/17 5:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

First, I question the attendance numbers. I think the league has cleaned up a lot of that in the last few years. And there were also a lot more freebies given out at different times in the league's history, or $1 tickets given to supermarket chains.

As for the ratings, what are the numbers exactly? I don't think I've seen a year-by-year tracking of ESPN and NBA-TV ratings. I would say this year is down just because it's one of those years, but if ratings are 10% down, game to game, from 10 years ago, that's a different story. (If they're 5% down, that's within the margin of error ...)



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tfan



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PostPosted: 06/29/17 5:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
First, I question the attendance numbers. I think the league has cleaned up a lot of that in the last few years. And there were also a lot more freebies given out at different times in the league's history, or $1 tickets given to supermarket chains.

As for the ratings, what are the numbers exactly? I don't think I've seen a year-by-year tracking of ESPN and NBA-TV ratings. I would say this year is down just because it's one of those years, but if ratings are 10% down, game to game, from 10 years ago, that's a different story. (If they're 5% down, that's within the margin of error ...)





2014 was an average of 240,000 for 19 games. 2015 was an average of 202,000 for 10 ESPN2 and 1 ESPN games. I don't see any articles giving the regular season ratings for 2016. I think there was a thread here last year where someone published the 2016 ratings.


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PostPosted: 06/29/17 6:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ESPN ratings are pretty easy to manipulate by scheduling. If they want them to go up, they put the game on ESPN, ESPN2 after something with large viewership. They want them to go down, they never go on ESPN and schedule on ESPN2 after 10 pm following something like World's Strongest Man.


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PostPosted: 06/29/17 9:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The big question here is will the league ever be able to move above and beyond what it is now? No, the league is not in any danger of folding. However a whole lot of people (not just punks like Mr. Arenas or spiteful vindictive people like D. Schlussel) see the league as a cause rather than a legitimate sport product. The status quo can't be acceptable to the vast majority of fans (or the players and owners).
I think most people find the product a good product, but from what I can tell it doesn't seem that the atmosphere and outreach is very appealing to a whole lot of people. Which is too bad. A lot of people would benefit if the WNBA did better for itself (that excellent subject post on this very board is a good indicator) and it would hurt absolutely no one at the same time.


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PostPosted: 06/29/17 9:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Seeing the league as a "cause" may actually help with sponsorship (Corporations feeling like they are doing a good deed and getting good PR from it) but doesn't necessarily make people want to go to games. People who are into the "cause" (which is ill defined) or causes in general may simply not be into sports that much. People who are into sports may not be that into causes.

Maybe this is just a reflection of me (and my small self centered world). Last thing I'm thinking about when going to a game is to help a cause. Sorry it that's selfish of me.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/30/17 10:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Seeing the league as a "cause" may actually help with sponsorship (Corporations feeling like they are doing a good deed and getting good PR from it) but doesn't necessarily make people want to go to games. People who are into the "cause" (which is ill defined) or causes in general may simply not be into sports that much. People who are into sports may not be that into causes.

Maybe this is just a reflection of me (and my small self centered world). Last thing I'm thinking about when going to a game is to help a cause. Sorry it that's selfish of me.


Someone get this genius an application asap #RandyForFrontOffice . Idea Exclamation Idea



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Randy



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PostPosted: 06/30/17 11:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks WNBA09. I think I'll get one of those applications. I have a great marketing idea. How about videos of players laughing and rolling eyes after a ref makes a call they don't like:

"Watch me Smirk"


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PostPosted: 06/30/17 11:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Thanks WNBA09. I think I'll get one of those applications. I have a great marketing idea. How about videos of players laughing and rolling eyes after a ref makes a call they don't like:

"Watch me Smirk"



I almost sh*t my pants omg #PostOftheYear

#WatchMeSmirk why do i see Kelsey Plum all over that AD Laughing



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PostPosted: 06/30/17 11:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
The status quo can't be acceptable to the vast majority of fans (or the players and owners).


And why not?

And if it isn't, then what can be done to improve its status? You mentioned poor marketing earlier -- fine, so what would be better marketing?

And is marketing so powerful that it will increase ratings and attendance by itself?



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PostPosted: 06/30/17 1:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Status quo = relatively cheap tickets and cheap League Pass. Lots of fans probably love the status quo, but don't realize it. Personally I don't need millions of other people to love the WNBA to validate my love for it.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 06/30/17 2:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Exactly - I only go to a few Hawks games a year. For the few times I go, it probably costs as much as a Dream Season ticket if not more. I don't like fighting crowds, scrambling for parking, etc that goes with the Hawks. And with the exception of one season a few years ago, the Hawks are one of the worst drawing NBA teams with some of the lowest prices. Imagine what an NBA that is successful might cost. You can love the game even if not many others do.


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PostPosted: 06/30/17 4:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The biggest problem I see on the horizon is when their contract with ESPN expires in 2022. The current contract was signed in 2013 when sports rights fees were sky high. In the current environment I doubt that the revenue will be sustainable unless they get their viewership up over 250,000 where they were in 2011 (which would be a 40% increase from where they are now.) Their rights fees are a drop in the bucket to ESPN/Disney but any decrease would be difficult for some teams to swallow.

Expansion will help TV ratings but also cause the money to be split more ways. I agree that substantial dilution of talent (by going to 16 teams) would hurt, but having teams in larger markets like the Bay Area and in Philadelphia (where there is stronger than average interest in Women's college basketball but seemingly no interest from the 76'ers) could help. It would be interesting to see how the TV numbers vary from city to city.

The biggest complicating factor is that there seems to be more money for players overseas than in the US. That makes it difficult for teams to control their largest cost without dramatically impacting the quality of play.


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PostPosted: 06/30/17 7:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Status quo = relatively cheap tickets and cheap League Pass. Lots of fans probably love the status quo, but don't realize it. Personally I don't need millions of other people to love the WNBA to validate my love for it.

Status quo = cheaper tickets, due to demand not being as high as it used to be. Not that many fans these days. Still in venues all over the place, but the average person probably has no idea (if as many people were as knowledgeable as pilight, that situation would be quite different). Way bigger in the early years. Arguably far more popular with Europeans than Americans.
I agree that plenty of people like the status quo without knowing it, because a lot of their songs have reached iconic level and been recycled and reused over the years.



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scowl



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PostPosted: 07/03/17 11:23 am    ::: Re: Bad League Management and Bad Team Management Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
Caveat: Soccer is a different beast. BUT...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soccer-insider/wp/2017/06/24/portland-thorns-fan-support-is-unlike-anything-else-in-womens-soccer/?utm_term=.252b13044f33

So why is women's soccer in Portland attracting big crowds of rabid fans while the WNBA can't even sustain the interest of people who want to be rabid fans?


People here in Portland will go to anything with soccer. The MLS team has a season ticket waiting list of almost 10,000 names. The Thorns were a way to get some of those people to soccer matches who otherwise couldn't get into the sold-out Timber matches. They're expanding Providence Park to add 4,000 more seats and even that won't help much.

Soccer fits Portland's culture well. People can drink beer and talk without paying too much attention to what's happening on the field until people start cheering. You have to pay attention to what's happening in basketball or you'll miss something.


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PostPosted: 07/03/17 11:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Shades wrote:
Status quo = relatively cheap tickets and cheap League Pass. Lots of fans probably love the status quo, but don't realize it. Personally I don't need millions of other people to love the WNBA to validate my love for it.

Status quo = cheaper tickets, due to demand not being as high as it used to be. Not that many fans these days. Still in venues all over the place, but the average person probably has no idea (if as many people were as knowledgeable as pilight, that situation would be quite different). Way bigger in the early years. Arguably far more popular with Europeans than Americans.
I agree that plenty of people like the status quo without knowing it, because a lot of their songs have reached iconic level and been recycled and reused over the years.


But wasn't that mostly because lots of tickets were being given away. Of course, teams are giving away tickets now, but not as many? Of do they give away as many now and people no longer care enough about it to come to the games?


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 07/03/17 12:50 pm    ::: Re: Bad League Management and Bad Team Management Reply Reply with quote

scowl wrote:
People here in Portland will go to anything with soccer. The MLS team has a season ticket waiting list of almost 10,000 names. The Thorns were a way to get some of those people to soccer matches who otherwise couldn't get into the sold-out Timber matches. They're expanding Providence Park to add 4,000 more seats and even that won't help much.

Soccer fits Portland's culture well. People can drink beer and talk without paying too much attention to what's happening on the field until people start cheering. You have to pay attention to what's happening in basketball or you'll miss something.

The alternative perspective would be that if you stop paying attention and miss something in a soccer match, you may well have missed something meaningful. In basketball, if you drift off and miss a bucket or two, there'll be another one along in a minute anyway. [/British angle] Wink.



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 07/03/17 6:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
Shades wrote:
Status quo = relatively cheap tickets and cheap League Pass. Lots of fans probably love the status quo, but don't realize it. Personally I don't need millions of other people to love the WNBA to validate my love for it.

Status quo = cheaper tickets, due to demand not being as high as it used to be. Not that many fans these days. Still in venues all over the place, but the average person probably has no idea (if as many people were as knowledgeable as pilight, that situation would be quite different). Way bigger in the early years. Arguably far more popular with Europeans than Americans.
I agree that plenty of people like the status quo without knowing it, because a lot of their songs have reached iconic level and been recycled and reused over the years.


But wasn't that mostly because lots of tickets were being given away. Of course, teams are giving away tickets now, but not as many? Of do they give away as many now and people no longer care enough about it to come to the games?

Sorry I think you and I are referring to different things



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Randy



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PostPosted: 07/03/17 7:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think I finally get it. I did find the part about songs confusing though the first time through but didn't give it much thought. Embarassed


josephkramer44



Joined: 23 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: 07/04/17 12:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When I say the status quo I am referring only to the financial and business side of the league. It's obvious the league is doing its best to put on a great show and performance for its core fans (which is after all what a sporting event should be) and no one can deny that.
However from a business perspective when teams are being relegated to 4,200 seat arenas in shady areas, when premier players are being paid to skip the season by Russian mobsters, when teams are still in constant danger of folding or relocating and when premier teams are giving away hundreds (if not thousands) of free tickets and still not filling seats there is a problem with the financial and business part of the status quo.
I'm going to wait until the end of the season and playoffs to come to solid conclusions (I should have enough data by then) but I think its going to be some variation of the WNBA needs to do more to appeal to men (most of us are not sexist unenlightened barbarians) in a way that makes the WNBA fun for men, rather than a chore or a civic duty. Many of the outreach attempts I have studied by both the league and the individual teams seem to have the opposite effect. They could also do a few other things more effectively as well.
I have tried to write this post carefully and without insulting anyone. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. The world would be pretty boring if everyone liked the same stuff and felt the same way about everything so I think it is awesome that there are so many different choices for sports entertainment in the US now. But will the WNBA ever be economically viable is still a legitimate question.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 07/04/17 11:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
When I say the status quo I am referring only to the financial and business side of the league. It's obvious the league is doing its best to put on a great show and performance for its core fans (which is after all what a sporting event should be) and no one can deny that.
However from a business perspective when teams are being relegated to 4,200 seat arenas in shady areas, when premier players are being paid to skip the season by Russian mobsters, when teams are still in constant danger of folding or relocating and when premier teams are giving away hundreds (if not thousands) of free tickets and still not filling seats there is a problem with the financial and business part of the status quo.
I'm going to wait until the end of the season and playoffs to come to solid conclusions (I should have enough data by then) but I think its going to be some variation of the WNBA needs to do more to appeal to men (most of us are not sexist unenlightened barbarians) in a way that makes the WNBA fun for men, rather than a chore or a civic duty. Many of the outreach attempts I have studied by both the league and the individual teams seem to have the opposite effect. They could also do a few other things more effectively as well.
I have tried to write this post carefully and without insulting anyone. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. The world would be pretty boring if everyone liked the same stuff and felt the same way about everything so I think it is awesome that there are so many different choices for sports entertainment in the US now. But will the WNBA ever be economically viable is still a legitimate question.


I agree with what you're saying, but I remain unconvinced that better marketing can make a substantial difference.

Male basketball fans have been exposed to females playing basketball since elementary school, and they have very likely seen high school and college games in person (if only in passing). How can marketing move the needle? It would seem to me the product is the issue, not the ad campaign.



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scowl



Joined: 25 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: 07/04/17 11:12 pm    ::: Re: Bad League Management and Bad Team Management Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
The alternative perspective would be that if you stop paying attention and miss something in a soccer match, you may well have missed something meaningful. [/British angle] Wink.

Most of the time when it looks like our team has a chance of scoring, everyone stops socializing and starts cheering. We don't scream during the whole match like most soccer fans in the world do.


josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 07/05/17 6:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You might be right. IF the current numbers remain unchanged after the season is done, which are significantly worse than last year after one of the biggest marketing campaigns in the league's history (and Border's claims of unbridled success) then either a completely new message is needed or the WNBA has reached the peak of what it can ever hope to be (at least for the foreseeable future). I'm certainly no Nostradamous so I don't claim to have all the answers, but I don't buy a fairly standard argument that the WNBA is failing because men are all sexist insecure pigs (obviously not everyone says that but a lot of people do feel that way).


ClayK



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PostPosted: 07/05/17 7:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
You might be right. IF the current numbers remain unchanged after the season is done, which are significantly worse than last year after one of the biggest marketing campaigns in the league's history (and Border's claims of unbridled success) then either a completely new message is needed or the WNBA has reached the peak of what it can ever hope to be (at least for the foreseeable future). I'm certainly no Nostradamous so I don't claim to have all the answers, but I don't buy a fairly standard argument that the WNBA is failing because men are all sexist insecure pigs (obviously not everyone says that but a lot of people do feel that way).


So what should the new message be? Since most have already seen the product, what can be altered to get them to watch it more often?



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awhom111



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PostPosted: 07/07/17 7:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Back to TV ratings:
Sparks-Lynx averaged 249,000 viewers. For those who wanted it on ESPN, the softball game averaged 362,000 and the tape delayed track and field meet that aired during the latter portion of the game averaged 380,000 viewers.
sportsfan48



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PostPosted: 07/08/17 2:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have DISH tv and the WNBA is not listed under the sports search. In fact, I have a difficult time finding WNBA at all. I wonder if this is the case for other tv providers like Time/Warner, Cox, etc.

Maybe the league could start by getting the tv providers to include the WNBA in their sports search options. It couldn't hurt.


josephkramer44



Joined: 23 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: 07/11/17 11:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
josephkramer44 wrote:
You might be right. IF the current numbers remain unchanged after the season is done, which are significantly worse than last year after one of the biggest marketing campaigns in the league's history (and Border's claims of unbridled success) then either a completely new message is needed or the WNBA has reached the peak of what it can ever hope to be (at least for the foreseeable future). I'm certainly no Nostradamous so I don't claim to have all the answers, but I don't buy a fairly standard argument that the WNBA is failing because men are all sexist insecure pigs (obviously not everyone says that but a lot of people do feel that way).


So what should the new message be? Since most have already seen the product, what can be altered to get them to watch it more often?



I have discovered one of the reasons a lot of people don't care for the WNBA is the fact that it is dependent upon subsidies from the NBA. "You call it a subsidy, I call it charity" is how one person I asked responded. The linking of the WNBA with the NBA in advertisement and events and so on actually has an opposite effect. "If I can't get paid to do what I love because it isn't profitable then why should they (the players in the WNBA) be able to?" It is a bit on the bitter side but there is some truth to these statements.

I am of an opinion that the linking of the two leagues certainly hurts a league which is crying out for acknowledgement, legitimacy and respect from the public. The best thing to do would be a completely new branding. Wait for the end of this season and begin plans.

Do a campaign about the New and Improved Hip WNBA (hopefully they can come up with a better title than that). Have the NBA linked teams do new uniforms and logos. If practical find different arenas than the larger NBA arenas. The sight of blacked out upper decks and swathes of empty seats for even the most popular teams is a PR disaster. I have a few more thoughts towards a better marketing campaign but will wait to publish those in a different thread (I have already gotten off topic here).


pilight



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PostPosted: 07/12/17 8:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
I have discovered one of the reasons a lot of people don't care for the WNBA is the fact that it is dependent upon subsidies from the NBA. "You call it a subsidy, I call it charity" is how one person I asked responded. The linking of the WNBA with the NBA in advertisement and events and so on actually has an opposite effect. "If I can't get paid to do what I love because it isn't profitable then why should they (the players in the WNBA) be able to?" It is a bit on the bitter side but there is some truth to these statements.


That's not the real reason they're not watching. That's just the business casual version of misogyny. The D-league is not profitable, but no one makes similar complaints about it.



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