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Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 05/10/17 6:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Now Laimbeer has to figure out if he wants that pure PG-type with Allen or attempt to make Burdick a SF.


I haven't really understood your 250 posts predicting Allen would get cut. Did she run over your dog or something? Very Happy But I think Bill figured all of that out long before he drafted Allen. He knew then what and who he wanted. That wasn't an accident.

Now she could turn out to be a bust and get cut (but I doubt it), but I don't think there's any experimenting or "figuring it out" going on.

Allen was one of the most predictable, known, easy to figure out players in the entire draft. Anyone who took her knew exactly what they were getting and was taking her on purpose to get exactly that.


I completely agree with your view of the drafting of Allen. I believe she'll be on the team unless Laimbeer can make an unexpected trade for a talented veteran guard, which seems unlikely.

Could Allen prove to be a bust and get cut? Sure. But I figure she's got at least half a season, in practice and here and there in games, to show Laimbeer what she can do. I doubt that he drafted her with the 2017 season being a prime consideration, but rather what she can do in the seasons that follow.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 05/10/17 6:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Now Laimbeer has to figure out if he wants that pure PG-type with Allen or attempt to make Burdick a SF.


I haven't really understood your 250 posts predicting Allen would get cut. Did she run over your dog or something? Very Happy But I think Bill figured all of that out long before he drafted Allen. He knew then what and who he wanted. That wasn't an accident.

Now she could turn out to be a bust and get cut (but I doubt it), but I don't think there's any experimenting or "figuring it out" going on.

Allen was one of the most predictable, known, easy to figure out players in the entire draft. Anyone who took her knew exactly what they were getting and was taking her on purpose to get exactly that.


Could it be that I just don't think she's good and that Laimbeer should have drafted someone else. With Erin Phillips available, I'd dump both Allen & Burdick and sign Phillips.



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Happycappie25



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 4174
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PostPosted: 05/10/17 7:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree with Phillips on the wire this changes everything you pick her up...her and boyd similar so one can learn off the other while adding a true presence at the 1...I'd pull the trigger if shes truly available (not gone back to aussie rules or something)



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 05/10/17 7:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Now Laimbeer has to figure out if he wants that pure PG-type with Allen or attempt to make Burdick a SF.


I haven't really understood your 250 posts predicting Allen would get cut. Did she run over your dog or something? Very Happy But I think Bill figured all of that out long before he drafted Allen. He knew then what and who he wanted. That wasn't an accident.

Now she could turn out to be a bust and get cut (but I doubt it), but I don't think there's any experimenting or "figuring it out" going on.

Allen was one of the most predictable, known, easy to figure out players in the entire draft. Anyone who took her knew exactly what they were getting and was taking her on purpose to get exactly that.


Could it be that I just don't think she's good and that Laimbeer should have drafted someone else. With Erin Phillips available, I'd dump both Allen & Burdick and sign Phillips.


This.....Boyd/Allen & Burdick could be in trouble if it happens tbh



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 05/10/17 7:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Phillips in New York makes a lot of sense. She's always reminded me of a less violent Elaine Powell.



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LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: 05/10/17 7:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Im on board also of picking up Erin Phillips, she's a good veteran who can back up Boyd and maybe even start if Boyd doesnt play well. Plus she can be around a fellow Aussie Rebecca Alllen. Lets do this LFO


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PostPosted: 05/10/17 7:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Phillips in New York makes a lot of sense. She's always reminded me of a less violent Elaine Powell.


+1 million of me Laughing



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tfan



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PostPosted: 05/10/17 8:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VOlLHR7x2YA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 05/10/17 8:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Phillips would be very expensive to claim off waivers. I could see them giving her a call if she clears, but I'd be a bit surprised if they wanted to take on the existing contract.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
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PostPosted: 05/10/17 8:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Besides the expense, which is a sensible argument against, I'd also add the question of why she was cut in the first place, from possibly the league's worst team. What if that means you're getting the 2015 version of Phillips instead of the version that has shot mid-40s from 3 in certain seasons? Because if it's that version, that version isn't even better than Bria Hartley. Add that the Liberty system is not all that friendly to perimeter players and will have something of a learning curve, I'd say why bother? I liked what I saw of Boyd Sunday and I think she looks like the 2015 version with improved handle and awareness. If that's the case, I'll take that over Phillips, and be happy with a developmental player like Allen on the roster.

Even at her best, Phillips is somewhat repetitive for the Libs other than the fact she can shoot. The reason I say that is she would be another PG-sized guard who isn't a true point guard. How many of those types of players do we want, especially in lieu of having one player on the roster who actually is a pure PG? I think it's a no-brainer. Pass on Phillips.



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Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 05/10/17 8:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Phillips would be very expensive to claim off waivers. I could see them giving her a call if she clears, but I'd be a bit surprised if they wanted to take on the existing contract.


Agreed



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 05/10/17 8:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:


Could it be that I just don't think she's good and that Laimbeer should have drafted someone else.


From my end, I never saw her in college. If I had seen her on TV, it's possible I would also not have been wowed because Allen is the definition of unspectacular.

But I will say that if she makes the team and you see her play live, you may wind up with a greater level of appreciation for her game. My reasoning is that when she is in the game, that ball moves and there is very little wasted motion on her part. It's the kind of thing that I feel is more noticeable when you watch a player play in person. So, while you may still feel the same way after you see her play a few times, I also wouldn't be surprised if you came away with a greater appreciation for the things she does well.



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Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 05/10/17 8:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I saw Lindsay Allen in person in the preseason games and I still don't see what her backers see, FWIW.

I'd like to pick up Phillips, but that contract could be an issue, yeah.



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myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: 05/10/17 10:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:
I agree with Phillips on the wire this changes everything you pick her up...her and boyd similar so one can learn off the other while adding a true presence at the 1...I'd pull the trigger if shes truly available (not gone back to aussie rules or something)


Shocked In what way are they similar? Phillips can shoot. Boyd can't. That seems like a huge difference to me. The only thing Boyd has going for her is that she is younger.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 05/10/17 10:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pure speculation but I'm not sure Phillips would want to come to NY. Phillips wanted to be in Dallas because that is where her life is. Maybe she would come but I'm not sure.

If we were going to go second Aussie off the wire I prefer Jarry (though it might be too late, which means we could still grab her as a free agent. Or see if Seattle wants next years second round pick and L. Allen for O'hea.


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PostPosted: 05/10/17 10:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

On a different part of the same conversation barring trades or late signings I still think we keep both tweeners in Burdick and Raincock-Ekunwe. And roll with Prince, Rodgers, Boyd and Hartley covering the lead guard spot.

I'm sticking with this until the last shoe drops

Prince/Boyd/Hartley
Rodgers/Zellous
R. Allen/Burdick
Charles/Zahui B./Raincock-Ekunwe
Stokes/Vaughn

I like L. Allen, but I don't think we need L. Allen. If she isn't picked up we can always bring her back if the PG spot is suffering.


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 05/10/17 10:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I/m almost reluctant to think about any waiver wire additions as I've grown to like out current 13 but,

if Stricklen looses her job in Conn to Hooper is that some one Laimbeer might like to bring in for nothing?


Shades



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PostPosted: 05/10/17 10:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stalling on making the last cut, Laimbeer must be worried that the last cut will picked up if it's made too early. Only one of those players is really pickup-worthy.... somebody he might want available down the line. Who is this player?



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Last edited by Shades on 05/10/17 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 05/10/17 10:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:


From my end, I never saw her in college. If I had seen her on TV, it's possible I would also not have been wowed because Allen is the definition of unspectacular.


You never saw her but call her unspectacular?
She started at ND every single game since she set foot in campus. Four years of starting every game for a perrenial top five team.
She shattered the ACC all time career assist record, blowing by players like Skylar Diggins, Dawn Staley and Kristi Toliver.
She has terrific vision, puts passes where they need to be, at the time they need to be there, and makes everyone around her better.
Maybe "unflashy" might be apt, but perhaps that's a good thing.
Really, there aren't many true point guards around in women's basketball. When you find one, keep her. They're valuable.

BTW, she played 35 mpg for 37 games at the point yet had only 79 turnovers for the season vs 282 assists (3.57 ato ratio).




Last edited by ArtBest23 on 05/10/17 11:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 05/10/17 11:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Stalling on making the last cut, Laimbeer must be worried that the last cut will picked up if it's made too early. Only one of those players is really pickup-worthy.... somebody he might available down the line. Who is this player?


I could see SA, Seattle, or Indy picking up L. Allen pretty quickly. It is interesting to note that Seattle and Indy didn't have any picks before NY so who knows if they were seriously considering her or not, but I wouldn't be surprised as both picked PG's later in the draft.


Shades



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PostPosted: 05/10/17 11:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Shades wrote:
Stalling on making the last cut, Laimbeer must be worried that the last cut will picked up if it's made too early. Only one of those players is really pickup-worthy.... somebody he might available down the line. Who is this player?


I could see SA, Seattle, or Indy picking up L. Allen pretty quickly. It is interesting to note that Seattle and Indy didn't have any picks before NY so who knows if they were seriously considering her or not, but I wouldn't be surprised as both picked PG's later in the draft.


Not IND. They just cut a PG to add a G/F.

We were just talking about a certain team being short a guard.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/10/17 11:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Happycappie25 wrote:
I agree with Phillips on the wire this changes everything you pick her up...her and boyd similar so one can learn off the other while adding a true presence at the 1...I'd pull the trigger if shes truly available (not gone back to aussie rules or something)


Shocked In what way are they similar? Phillips can shoot. Boyd can't. That seems like a huge difference to me. The only thing Boyd has going for her is that she is younger.


In five of her nine seasons, Phillips had field goal percentages under 40%. She was better than Boyd last year, but over the last two seasons Boyd actually edges her out .373 vs .369. Phillips isn't much of a playmaker, averaging 2.0 assists per 20 minutes over her career. Boyd is at 3.0 over 17.2 minutes. If you use advanced statistics, Boyd has an assist pct of 29.6% vs Phillips 16.9%. Now, a lot of that is because Boyd is a pure point and Phillips is a combo guard. But as NYL_WNBA_FAN pointed out, another undersized combo guard is the last thing the Liberty need. If you're looking at overall game, Phillips has a career PER of 13.4 compared to Boyd's 14.7 in her two seasons. If people don't like Boyd, that's fine. But Phillips is way overrated on this board. She's someone who has averaged 6.3 points, 2.0 assists on 40.3% shooting over her career. The 3Pt Pct is great at 38.1%, but that's 211 makes in 229 games or less than 1 per game.



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PostPosted: 05/10/17 11:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Half-decent defense, mostly staying out of the way, and hitting threes could make her basically a better version of Bria Hartley, though.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/11/17 12:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Half-decent defense, mostly staying out of the way, and hitting threes could make her basically a better version of Bria Hartley, though.


I don't know what "mostly staying out of the way" means. Is that good? Smile "Could" be better than Hartley, but not for certain. Bria is 24, while Phillips turns 32 next week. One player has upside, the other is on the downside of her career -- and with a bigger contract to boot. Also, Hartley has been in camp and spent time at the practice facility even before camp started. She has some grasp of the offense. Phillips would be walking in cold. I don't see a compelling reason to make the move.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 05/11/17 4:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:


From my end, I never saw her in college. If I had seen her on TV, it's possible I would also not have been wowed because Allen is the definition of unspectacular.


You never saw her but call her unspectacular?
She started at ND every single game since she set foot in campus. Four years of starting every game for a perrenial top five team.
She shattered the ACC all time career assist record, blowing by players like Skylar Diggins, Dawn Staley and Kristi Toliver.
She has terrific vision, puts passes where they need to be, at the time they need to be there, and makes everyone around her better.
Maybe "unflashy" might be apt, but perhaps that's a good thing.
Really, there aren't many true point guards around in women's basketball. When you find one, keep her. They're valuable.

BTW, she played 35 mpg for 37 games at the point yet had only 79 turnovers for the season vs 282 assists (3.57 ato ratio).


I saw her in the preseason game. Let me rephrase. Unspectacular is the wrong word. I meant she's not overly flashy. I LIKE her. I thought her vision and ability to get the team into its offense quickly were both valuable. My point was that once Toad sees her in person, perhaps he will see more of the parts of her game that are valuable, since she's not a scorer nor has dynamic speed. The positives of her game may stand out more live than they did on TV.



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