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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/06/17 11:25 pm    ::: Hilary blames everyone but herself Reply Reply with quote

So she gave an interview on why she lost the election. It's the Russians fault, it's Comey's fault, it's all due to misogyny, it's everybody's fault but hers.

It couldn't possibly have anything to do with you being a shitty candidate who ran a shitty campaign.

Naaaa, that couldn't be it.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 04/06/17 11:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah. That was bad. It was almost Trump-like.

I don't mind her suggesting that all of those had a role in it, as I am sure they did. But ultimately you have to take some ownership. I kept waiting for her to say something like: "But in the end it all comes down to me. I had to do better. Be better. And we failed." Hell, even throw in a good barb at Trump: "I feel like I let the American people down, letting them get stuck with such a terrible president. We dropped the ball at the worst possible time."



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 04/07/17 1:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's not Hillary's fault she lost. I'm confident Hillary voted for Hillary.

It's the fault of the people who didn't vote for her that she lost.

Regardless, she does talk about what she needed to do better. .

https://www.yahoo.com/news/misogyny-played-role-election-loss-clinton-233904460.html



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 05/02/17 6:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hillary doubles down.

Repeats again today that it wasn't her fault. It was Comey's and the Russians.

Classic Hillary. Never met a responsibility she was willing to accept. This arrogance is precisely why she lost.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 05/02/17 7:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There is significant data to suggest that Comey (and the media's reaction to his letter) cost her the election. It seems very likely that had the election taken place on October 27, she would be president.

However, and this is a huge "however", it was HER fault that the election was so close as to turn on such things. It's like blaming the refs for a questionable call at the end of the game. Do what it takes to not be in that position. There were so many missteps and regrettable choices along the way that need to be acknowledged and addressed, and saying it was "Comey's fault" is missing the forest for the trees.

It would be like me dumping a bunch of flamable liquids out in a forest and then blaming the fact that lightning struck for causing the massive forest fire.



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 05/02/17 11:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Hillary doubles down.

Repeats again today that it wasn't her fault. It was Comey's and the Russians.

Classic Hillary. Never met a responsibility she was willing to accept. This arrogance is precisely why she lost.


Lmao

You didn't actually watch the interview did you. She told no lies.

You sound like every other Misogynist foaming at the mouth whenever she speaks. It's gross.

Justin, I'm curious..are you this critical about Sanders not taking full responsibility? because last I checked, him and his supporters are still falsely blaming the DNC.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 05/03/17 8:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Hillary doubles down.

Repeats again today that it wasn't her fault. It was Comey's and the Russians.

Classic Hillary. Never met a responsibility she was willing to accept. This arrogance is precisely why she lost.


Lmao

You didn't actually watch the interview did you. She told no lies.

You sound like every other Misogynist foaming at the mouth whenever she speaks. It's gross.

Justin, I'm curious..are you this critical about Sanders not taking full responsibility? because last I checked, him and his supporters are still falsely blaming the DNC.


I see you dug out that Hillary playbook again.
Turn realty on its head, deny responsibility, sling some slurs, and, attack, attack, attack. Hillary would be proud of you. Laughing Laughing Laughing


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 05/03/17 9:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Came here expecting the usual Hillary-hating male commentary and wasn't disappointed.

Denial of the impact of (and motivation for) Comey's red herring email statement when Clinton was up 13 pts, and of Comey's (along w/ McTurtle and the boys') refusal to do the same re: the investigation of Russia and the Trump campaign is a critical component for any Clinton campaign basher.

Malcolm Nance's book "The Plot to Hack America" may be useful.

All but the duped demented know Trump is an incompetent moron acting as POTUS.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 05/03/17 9:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The most hilarious parts of the "it's not my fault" bullshit is:

1). If Podesta and her other cronies hadn't been playing games, and if she hadn't been telling her big money backers "don't pay any attention to what I say publicly, I'm not really going to do any of that stuff", there wouldn't have been anything about which to be embarrassed by WikiLeaks. She just got caught with her hand in the cookie jar, that's all. It's still her own damn fault. Whining about how the truth came out is ridiculous.

2) If her own arrogance, obsession with secrecy, and attempt to circumvent public disclosure rules hadn't compelled her to use a PC in her home closet for her official business, there never would have been an FBI investigation, and if she'd actually complied with the various subpoenas and produced the emails in the first place instead of resorting to her usual obstruct, obfuscate, conceal, delay tactics, there wouldn't have been a late-discovered batch for Comey to write about. It too is still all her own fault.

And neither Comey nor the Russians told her not to campaign in the Midwest. That was her own arrogance.

BTW, here's a good article on some of the emails from that notoriously right wing pro-GOP group, the British Broadcasting Company -
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37639370


justintyme



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PostPosted: 05/03/17 11:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
Justin, I'm curious..are you this critical about Sanders not taking full responsibility? because last I checked, him and his supporters are still falsely blaming the DNC.

These are two wholly different situations that share little in common. And even so, I am annoyed by the whole "blame the DNC" bit. I think the DNC made a tragic error in their choices, but it serves no one to blame them for it all. There were many other factors also at work.

But Sanders was in a much different position than Clinton. Sanders was always the underdog in this election. Going into it he was largely unknown. And yet he put together a furious charge against all odds and made it a competitive race. And he did it against a DNC that had pretty much already anointed Clinton as the nominee.

So when we look back at the Sanders campaign, and we look for missteps, there really aren't any to find. He did just about as well as was possible under the circumstances; in fact, he did far better than anyone thought possible (likely even he and his campaign staff) going into it.

Clinton, on the other hand, should have won this election running away. She was going up against a despised man that was a historically bad candidate. And unlike Sanders, there are numerous places were we can see she made terrible missteps that cost her what should have been a landslide in her favor. Some of those were outside of her control, some of them were directly her fault, and some of them were consequences of her own making.

Ultimately, the "why she lost" narrative is only important going forward. The problem with blaming Comey and the Media's reaction to it is that it seems to be saying "we'll be fine in the future as long as Comey and the Russians are non-factors". And that is false. What they need to be doing is figuring out why they hemorrhaged Obama voters, especially in the Midwest. And yes, recognize that the next time the party has a choice between one of the most disliked candidates in history and the candidate that has proven to be the most popular person in Washington, maybe not throw their weight behind the unpopular one.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 05/03/17 4:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
So while one can debate the magnitude of the effect, there’s a reasonably clear consensus of the evidence that the Comey letter mattered6 — probably by enough to swing the election. This ought not be one of the more controversial facts about the 2016 campaign; the data is pretty straightforward.


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 05/03/17 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
And yes, recognize that the next time the party has a choice between one of the most disliked candidates in history and the candidate that has proven to be the most popular person in Washington, maybe not throw their weight behind the unpopular one.


So you think that the Democratic party should have united behind Biden? So do I.


pilight



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PostPosted: 05/03/17 4:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
justintyme wrote:
And yes, recognize that the next time the party has a choice between one of the most disliked candidates in history and the candidate that has proven to be the most popular person in Washington, maybe not throw their weight behind the unpopular one.


So you think that the Democratic party should have united behind Biden? So do I.


It's hard to unite behind a guy who's not running



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 05/03/17 4:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Quote:
So while one can debate the magnitude of the effect, there’s a reasonably clear consensus of the evidence that the Comey letter mattered6 — probably by enough to swing the election. This ought not be one of the more controversial facts about the 2016 campaign; the data is pretty straightforward.


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/


Even if we were to assume this is true (a dubious proposition at best), focusing on Comey and his letter completely ignores where the true responsibility for the entire imbroglio lies.

If Clinton had for once in her life stepped up to the plate, accepted responsibility for her (at a minimum) errors in judgement, honestly cooperated with the investigation, and complied with the various subpoenas and document requests, the entire affair would have been water under the bridge a year before the election. There wouldn't have been any new information and new discoveries or new letters pushing up against the election.

As the BBC writes concerning the email exchange between Podesta and Neera Tanden:

"In the email exchange, Mr Podesta also complained that Clinton's personal lawyer David Kendall, and former State Department staffers Cheryl Mills and Philippe Reines "sure weren't forthcoming here on the facts here". Mrs Tanden responds "Why didn't' they get this stuff out like 18 months ago? So crazy."

She later answered her own question saying, "I guess I know the answer. They wanted to get away with it.""


And this assessment of Hillary's "terrible instincts" didn't come from Republican enemies, it came from her closest friends and advisers.

Focusing on the Comey letter is just a diversionary excuse. Comey didn't create the mess; his letter just refocused some people on it at an inconvenient time. There never would have been a letter, there never would have been issue by the time the election rolled around, but for Hillary's own arrogance and standard lifelong tactics. Hillary dug her own grave.

But she'll never admit it or accept responsibility. It will always be somebody else's fault. That's the way she rolls.


mercfan3



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PostPosted: 05/03/17 4:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Clinton Derangement Syndrome.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 05/03/17 4:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Quote:
So while one can debate the magnitude of the effect, there’s a reasonably clear consensus of the evidence that the Comey letter mattered6 — probably by enough to swing the election. This ought not be one of the more controversial facts about the 2016 campaign; the data is pretty straightforward.


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/


Even if we were to assume this is true (a dubious proposition at best), focusing on Comey and his letter completely ignores where the true responsibility for the entire imbroglio lies.

If Clinton had for once in her life stepped up to the plate, accepted responsibility for her (at a minimum) errors in judgement, honestly cooperated with the investigation, and complied with the various subpoenas and document requests, the entire affair would have been water under the bridge a year before the election. There wouldn't have been any new information and new discoveries or new letters pushing up against the election.

As the BBC writes concerning the email exchange between Podesta and Neera Tanden:

"In the email exchange, Mr Podesta also complained that Clinton's personal lawyer David Kendall, and former State Department staffers Cheryl Mills and Philippe Reines "sure weren't forthcoming here on the facts here". Mrs Tanden responds "Why didn't' they get this stuff out like 18 months ago? So crazy."

She later answered her own question saying, "I guess I know the answer. They wanted to get away with it.""


And this assessment of Hillary's "terrible instincts" didn't come from Republican enemies, it came from her closest friends and advisers.

Focusing on the Comey letter is just a diversionary excuse. Comey didn't create the mess; his letter just refocused some people on it at an inconvenient time. There never would have been a letter, there never would have been issue by the time the election rolled around, but for Hillary's own arrogance and standard lifelong tactics. Hillary dug her own grave.

But she'll never admit it or accept responsibility. It will always be somebody else's fault. That's the way she rolls.


If only the piece that I posted and you responded to had addressed this ...


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 05/03/17 4:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nobody seems to want to address this simple reality.

Yelling "it was Comey's fault" completely ignores the reason WHY Comey's letter existed or was news. It was only because Hillary had been playing hide-the-ball for two years. If, as her own people like Podesta and Tanden discussed, all this stuff had been out in the open 18 months before, there would have been no news. Or, if in the unlikely event the disclosure had actually mattered to the electorate, the Democrats would have had plenty of time to choose a different candidate. Either way, there would have been no late-in-the-game Comey letter to talk about.

The only person responsible for Hillary's loss is Hillary.


Richard 77



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PostPosted: 05/03/17 4:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Nobody seems to want to address this simple reality.

Yelling "it was Comey's fault" completely ignores the reason WHY Comey's letter existed or was news. It was only because Hillary had been playing hide-the-ball for two years. If, as her own people like Podesta and Tanden discussed, all this stuff had been out in the open 18 months before, there would have been no news. Or, if in the unlikely event the disclosure had actually mattered to the electorate, the Democrats would have had plenty of time to choose a different candidate. Either way, there would have been no late-in-the-game Comey letter to talk about.

The only person responsible for Hillary's loss is Hillary.


No. Hillary wasn't the only one to blame. She was a part of the problem, but only one part of the problem.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 05/03/17 4:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
justintyme wrote:
And yes, recognize that the next time the party has a choice between one of the most disliked candidates in history and the candidate that has proven to be the most popular person in Washington, maybe not throw their weight behind the unpopular one.


So you think that the Democratic party should have united behind Biden? So do I.


It's hard to unite behind a guy who's not running


If the party establishment and money men (largely controlled by the Clinton machine) hadn't anointed Hillary early on, Biden might well have come to a different conclusion. When he decided not to run, she appeared to be a shoe-in both for the nomination, and to easily beat whichever Republican survived their mess of nomination process. That assessment greatly underestimated her unpopularity and did not foresee her horrible campaign.


mercfan3



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PostPosted: 05/03/17 6:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Nobody seems to want to address this simple reality.

Yelling "it was Comey's fault" completely ignores the reason WHY Comey's letter existed or was news. It was only because Hillary had been playing hide-the-ball for two years. If, as her own people like Podesta and Tanden discussed, all this stuff had been out in the open 18 months before, there would have been no news. Or, if in the unlikely event the disclosure had actually mattered to the electorate, the Democrats would have had plenty of time to choose a different candidate. Either way, there would have been no late-in-the-game Comey letter to talk about.


Bullshit. If she had been "out in the open" there would have been a new fake Clinton scandal.

ArtBest23 wrote:

The only person responsible for Hillary's loss is Hillary.


LOL. Clinton Derangement Syndrome.

Anyone assigning complete blame to any particular piece of the Trump puzzle has an agenda.

You continue to ignore that she has taken responsibility. She has just also acknowledged things outside of her control..which quite frankly, played a larger role in her loss than she did.

BTW: Love the "She should have campaigned in the midwest." Ignores reality and math.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 05/03/17 11:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/05/03/obama-adviser-axelrod-clinton-election-loss-trump-comey/22067535/

"President Barack Obama's former senior adviser, David Axelrod, told CNN on Wednesday that Hillary Clinton should take full responsibility for her mistakes in the 2016 campaign, noting that "it takes a lot of work to lose to Donald Trump."



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 05/04/17 11:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/05/03/obama-adviser-axelrod-clinton-election-loss-trump-comey/22067535/

"President Barack Obama's former senior adviser, David Axelrod, told CNN on Wednesday that Hillary Clinton should take full responsibility for her mistakes in the 2016 campaign, noting that "it takes a lot of work to lose to Donald Trump."


He also said -

"Jim Comey didn't tell her not to campaign in Wisconsin after the convention. . . . Jim Comey didn't say 'don't put any resources into Michigan until the final week of the campaign.'"


I guess it's just another obvious case of "Clinton Derangement Syndrome". Rolling Eyes Laughing Laughing Laughing

I'd say "Clinton refusal to accept responsibility syndrome" seems to be more common among her zealots.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 05/04/17 12:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Let's see....emails on a server, done like most before her,

VS

Russian hacking and releasing only info denigrating the Clinton campaign and possible connection with Trump campaign

AND

FBI director et al refusing to acknowledge one investigation (Russia hack/Trump campaign) and then FBI director releasing Oct. 28 letter re: Wiener's laptop emails which later proved to be NOTHING OF IMPORT OR INTEREST.

Those who argue the significance/impact of the duplicitous dealing by Comey w/ respect to these two issues are as full of shit as House Republicans claiming today "Trump Care" is anything other than a tax cut for their wealthy donors.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 05/04/17 12:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Let's see....emails on a server, done like most before her


Yes, so you can quit protesting when people say Dems and Reps are the same. They both do the same bullshit.



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 05/04/17 12:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
Let's see....emails on a server, done like most before her


Yes, so you can quit protesting when people say Dems and Reps are the same. They both do the same bullshit.


Yeah, they both shit with their pants down, too. You really got me. Laughing



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