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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 04/27/17 11:06 am ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
Most elite basketball players choose their school based on the historical quality of the basketball team, not on how "blue chip" the education is. They spend much of their free time before college playing basketball, not preparing for a career as an engineer. |
And you make this remarkably ignorant and condescending conclusion based on what exactly?
Oh that's right. You just pulled it out of your ass. |
I would agree with tfan, having worked with high school girls' basketball players for many decades. |
You've made your disdain for education quite clear for a long time.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7746 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 04/27/17 1:25 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
Most elite basketball players choose their school based on the historical quality of the basketball team, not on how "blue chip" the education is. They spend much of their free time before college playing basketball, not preparing for a career as an engineer. |
And you make this remarkably ignorant and condescending conclusion based on what exactly?
Oh that's right. You just pulled it out of your ass. |
I would agree with tfan, having worked with high school girls' basketball players for many decades. |
You've made your disdain for education quite clear for a long time. |
It's a long way to the ground from that horse's back.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
Last edited by summertime blues on 04/27/17 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013 Posts: 5221
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Posted: 04/27/17 3:37 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
Most elite basketball players choose their school based on the historical quality of the basketball team, not on how "blue chip" the education is. They spend much of their free time before college playing basketball, not preparing for a career as an engineer. |
And you make this remarkably ignorant and condescending conclusion based on what exactly?
Oh that's right. You just pulled it out of your ass. |
I would agree with tfan, having worked with high school girls' basketball players for many decades. |
You've made your disdain for education quite clear for a long time. |
Why are there so many good academic schools that don't recruit well? I think women's basketball maybe the recruits don't value education as much as you see in the other non revenue sports. Take the SEC. Championship game this year was Mississippi State (US News 176) vs. South Carolina (US News #107). Tennessee is US News #103 and recruits the most talent in the league. The best 3 schools are UGA (#56 US News), Florida (#50 US News), and Vanderbilt (#15 US News). You would think those schools would recruit better given their strong academics, if more players had that higher on their list of priorities. I think if education mattered a lot you would see a little more distribution of the top talent as opposed to the top talent going to the schools who win the most but maybe don't have the most prestigious academics.
In the Pac 12, Oregon had maybe the best 2016 class in the entire league, but they are one of the worst rated academic schools in the conference, #103 overall.
In the Big 10, Northwestern is at #12 nationally in US News but they don't recruit nearly as well as the Ohio State's and Maryland's. Northwestern while top academically might be bottom third in recruiting in the league.
In the ACC Notre Dame is the top team and recruits the best but Louisville (#171) is very good at recruiting while having the worst academic ranking in the league.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11106
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Posted: 04/27/17 6:26 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
Most elite basketball players choose their school based on the historical quality of the basketball team, not on how "blue chip" the education is. They spend much of their free time before college playing basketball, not preparing for a career as an engineer. |
And you make this remarkably ignorant and condescending conclusion based on what exactly?
Oh that's right. You just pulled it out of your ass. |
I would agree with tfan, having worked with high school girls' basketball players for many decades. |
You've made your disdain for education quite clear for a long time. |
Of course you know that's not the point ...
The majority of players are far, far more concerned with the quality of basketball than the quality of the academic program. That's not disdain, that's just a fact.
Now whether they should be is another question entirely, but for most of us who deal with these girls and their parents, it's pretty clear it's not high on the priority list. There is an assumption that a degree from one Power 5 university is not that much different in terms of quality of life in the future than a degree from another one (Stanford and Duke excepted, and maybe Northwestern). Again, whether that assumption is justified is another question.
I get this same questioning on the Cal board, as many alums assume that everyone should want to go to Cal because of its elite academic reputation, but even if you grant Cal Stanford-like status, great athletes do not flock there as much as to Oregon, say.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7746 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 04/27/17 7:10 pm ::: |
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Durantula wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
Most elite basketball players choose their school based on the historical quality of the basketball team, not on how "blue chip" the education is. They spend much of their free time before college playing basketball, not preparing for a career as an engineer. |
And you make this remarkably ignorant and condescending conclusion based on what exactly?
Oh that's right. You just pulled it out of your ass. |
I would agree with tfan, having worked with high school girls' basketball players for many decades. |
You've made your disdain for education quite clear for a long time. |
Why are there so many good academic schools that don't recruit well? I think women's basketball maybe the recruits don't value education as much as you see in the other non revenue sports. Take the SEC. Championship game this year was Mississippi State (US News 176) vs. South Carolina (US News #107). Tennessee is US News #103 and recruits the most talent in the league. The best 3 schools are UGA (#56 US News), Florida (#50 US News), and Vanderbilt (#15 US News). You would think those schools would recruit better given their strong academics, if more players had that higher on their list of priorities. I think if education mattered a lot you would see a little more distribution of the top talent as opposed to the top talent going to the schools who win the most but maybe don't have the most prestigious academics.
In the Pac 12, Oregon had maybe the best 2016 class in the entire league, but they are one of the worst rated academic schools in the conference, #103 overall.
In the Big 10, Northwestern is at #12 nationally in US News but they don't recruit nearly as well as the Ohio State's and Maryland's. Northwestern while top academically might be bottom third in recruiting in the league.
In the ACC Notre Dame is the top team and recruits the best but Louisville (#171) is very good at recruiting while having the worst academic ranking in the league. |
Part of the problem may be that the academic standards keep some players out. Rightly or wrongly, that is the perception at some schools. I believe I've heard Tara mention once or twice the it kept her from getting certain recruits. (It's also something of a point of pride for Wisconsin football and MBB.) Also, some schools with high academic standards choose to somewhat de-emphasize athletics, even though they may play at a D-I level.
There are some other things to consider when you're talking about whether a school is academically "good" or not. Certain schools are pretty good across the board; others are excellent in a few fields but not in everything. This is why educators, and those who have been around them for a long time (in my case, my entire life), don't buy very heavily into the USN&WR rankings. And actually, a motivated student can get a pretty damn decent education just about anywhere she chooses, IF she applies herself and works hard at it. I guess it all depends on what you want from your education.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9544
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Posted: 04/27/17 8:03 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
Most elite basketball players choose their school based on the historical quality of the basketball team, not on how "blue chip" the education is. They spend much of their free time before college playing basketball, not preparing for a career as an engineer. |
And you make this remarkably ignorant and condescending conclusion based on what exactly?
Oh that's right. You just pulled it out of your ass. |
There is much evidence that players put the prior strength of the basketball team ahead of other factors like academics. As one example, someone here went uncharacteristically positive to support another denunciation, gushing over Georgetown University's academics. And yet Georgetown University has not had a top women's basketball program over the years. No women's basketball coach at Georgetown since 1981 has had a winning career record (Terry Williams-Flourney did have the program doing well for her final 3 or 4 years).
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 04/27/17 9:23 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
Most elite basketball players choose their school based on the historical quality of the basketball team, not on how "blue chip" the education is. They spend much of their free time before college playing basketball, not preparing for a career as an engineer. |
And you make this remarkably ignorant and condescending conclusion based on what exactly?
Oh that's right. You just pulled it out of your ass. |
I would agree with tfan, having worked with high school girls' basketball players for many decades. |
You've made your disdain for education quite clear for a long time. |
Of course you know that's not the point ...
The majority of players are far, far more concerned with the quality of basketball than the quality of the academic program. That's not disdain, that's just a fact.
Now whether they should be is another question entirely, but for most of us who deal with these girls and their parents, it's pretty clear it's not high on the priority list. There is an assumption that a degree from one Power 5 university is not that much different in terms of quality of life in the future than a degree from another one (Stanford and Duke excepted, and maybe Northwestern). Again, whether that assumption is justified is another question.
I get this same questioning on the Cal board, as many alums assume that everyone should want to go to Cal because of its elite academic reputation, but even if you grant Cal Stanford-like status, great athletes do not flock there as much as to Oregon, say. |
Sure, but that completely misses the point. First "most" players can't get in and wouldn't be considering those elite colleges whether they were athletes or not, so we're only talking about a limited universe of girls with basketball skills, physical makeup, test scores and grades. Second a lot of top athletes unfortunately come from family backgrounds where either education isn't valued, or is valued but isn't understood, and never get the advice they deserve to understand that there is a lifetime difference in the value of the degree between Northwestern and Louisiana Tech no matter how many banners hang in their respective gyms.
But plenty of smart girls with good grades and good guidance make the smart choice. Natalie Butler originally chose education. She didn't go to Georgetown because it had a great WBB program. Temi Fagbenle didn't pick Harvard based on basketball. Maya Dodson made it quite clear why she was picking Stanford when she could be going anywhere this fall. The rosters of Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke, Northwestern and other elite schools attract girls willing to do the work because they understand the opportunity. For those who don't understand, the extra schoolwork just gets in the way.
It's unfortunate to me when someone like Butler who understands chooses to waste the opportunity. That "the majority of players are far, far more concerned with the quality of basketball than the quality of the academic program" doesn't mean it's wise, it probably just means they're getting bad or inadequate advice. They're probably more worried about what they're wearing to the prom too. One would hope there would be adults around to help with priorities.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18013 Location: Queens
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Posted: 04/27/17 9:48 pm ::: |
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Guys, can we keep the focus on actual facts, not on commentary? I'm up in here trying to figure out where players are going, not to wade through condescension.
_________________ All your Rebecca are belong to the Liberty.
(now with spelling variations)
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005 Posts: 4929
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Posted: 04/29/17 11:56 am ::: |
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Former Terps Slocum and Staiti are visiting Fayetteville. Major coup for Neighbors if he lands Slocum.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12495 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63713
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7746 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 04/29/17 3:46 pm ::: |
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Keyan Brown, formerly of ODU, will finish her career at Virginia State. She left a very sweet and gracious post on Twitter.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005 Posts: 4929
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32326
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7746 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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noleman
Joined: 06 Oct 2011 Posts: 872
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Posted: 04/29/17 11:10 pm ::: |
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TCU transfer AJ Alix will be making her decision on Sunday.
Is said to be between FSU and TAMU. She is a grad transfer and will be eligible immediately.
If she chooses FSU, it would really help fill the PG void of Brown and Romero and add much needed 3 point shooting. Averaged 13.1 points and 4.6 assists, shot 39% from the 3 last season.
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UK1996
Joined: 03 Sep 2015 Posts: 403
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005 Posts: 4929
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Posted: 04/30/17 9:19 am ::: |
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Crystal Primm, Duke transfer, will have two seasons of eligibility at Auburn.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7746 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 04/30/17 9:46 pm ::: |
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National JUCO Player of the Year Taylor Emery to VA Tech.
VCU transfer Curteeona Breedlove to St. John's.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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noleman
Joined: 06 Oct 2011 Posts: 872
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Posted: 04/30/17 10:00 pm ::: |
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noleman wrote: |
TCU transfer AJ Alix will be making her decision on Sunday.
Is said to be between FSU and TAMU. She is a grad transfer and will be eligible immediately.
If she chooses FSU, it would really help fill the PG void of Brown and Romero and add much needed 3 point shooting. Averaged 13.1 points and 4.6 assists, shot 39% from the 3 last season. |
Alix will finish her basketball career at FSU! Much needed up pickup for the Noles.
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005 Posts: 4929
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Posted: 04/30/17 10:21 pm ::: |
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noleman wrote: |
noleman wrote: |
TCU transfer AJ Alix will be making her decision on Sunday.
Is said to be between FSU and TAMU. She is a grad transfer and will be eligible immediately.
If she chooses FSU, it would really help fill the PG void of Brown and Romero and add much needed 3 point shooting. Averaged 13.1 points and 4.6 assists, shot 39% from the 3 last season. |
Alix will finish her basketball career at FSU! Much needed up pickup for the Noles. |
Mompremiere was in Tallahassee this past week as well
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#Occasionalwnbafan
Joined: 01 Mar 2012 Posts: 1380
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Posted: 05/01/17 6:47 pm ::: |
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Destiny Slocum
to Oregon st |
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005 Posts: 4929
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Posted: 05/01/17 6:48 pm ::: |
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#Occasionalwnbafan wrote: |
Destiny Slocum
to Oregon st |
Boom! Shots fired! Civil War!
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012 Posts: 4040
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Posted: 05/01/17 7:12 pm ::: |
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#Occasionalwnbafan wrote: |
Destiny Slocum
to Oregon st |
Great get for Rueck! Now now get Sabrina vs. Destiny for 2 years. Excellent!
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noleman
Joined: 06 Oct 2011 Posts: 872
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Posted: 05/01/17 9:56 pm ::: |
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NoDakSt wrote: |
noleman wrote: |
noleman wrote: |
TCU transfer AJ Alix will be making her decision on Sunday.
Is said to be between FSU and TAMU. She is a grad transfer and will be eligible immediately.
If she chooses FSU, it would really help fill the PG void of Brown and Romero and add much needed 3 point shooting. Averaged 13.1 points and 4.6 assists, shot 39% from the 3 last season. |
Alix will finish her basketball career at FSU! Much needed up pickup for the Noles. |
Mompremiere was in Tallahassee this past week as well |
Looks like it will come down to FSU and Miami as she wants to play closer to home. Is visiting UM tomorrow.
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/college/state-college-sports/article147948154.html
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