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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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 Posted: 04/28/17 1:17 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
| Bill needs to pull the trigger....Schimmel for Bone. |
It probably takes something verging on max money to get Bone to show up. Why would New York want to pay that to Kelsey freaking Bone, to likely be their fifth post, then sit there stewing and being increasingly pissed off and disruptive? Definite pass, even if Phoenix were interested. |
Bone had a successful rookie season in NY.There were no overly opinionated quotes or problems in the lockerroom.If Bone regained her form,and piped down.The Liberty would have enough assets to acquire a SF/PG.Bone's only 25 years old,and just averaged 15p/7r/51% two seasons ago.Not many post players put up those type of numbers.I think Bone is worth the risk.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Location: NJ
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| Posted: 04/28/17 2:25 pm ::: |
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| I agree about Bone. She probably wants max or near max offers & likely wants to start. Only team that might do that is San Antonio.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 04/28/17 2:38 pm ::: |
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I'm really depressed by the ugly tone in some comments about Shoni Schimmel. I've never met her, she was never a favorite player of mine, I didn't expect to see her on the Liberty this season, and I don't feel invested in defending her.
But suppose it's true (everyone is simply guessing right now) that Schimmel is uncertain about whether she wants to continue in the WNBA or in professional basketball anywhere. Is that a crime against fans?
I see no evidence that Shoni Schimmel is hurting anyone. I wish her well with whatever path she pursues.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 04/28/17 3:00 pm ::: |
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| Maybe she's working on a book with Candice Wiggins. But, TBH, I just think she didn't want to be cut so she didn't show up to save face.
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5thmantheme
Joined: 11 Apr 2016
Posts: 540
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| Posted: 04/28/17 3:11 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
Shoni is still under her original rookie contract. This would be the last year (4).
The article seems to suggest that she might still be suffering from her concussion incurred in August. And yet, someone supposedly spotted her playing basketball recently. Hmmm. I do know that in hockey players have missed long periods due to concussions. The Rangers lost a promising young defenseman, 24-25 years old, who never came back at all. |
"Schimmel, who has missed the start of training camp, sustained a concussion last August that kept her off the court for the remainder of the 2016 season."
Yeah, don't wanna come back til fully healed. Eric Lindros of Philly was another conc'ed out.
iirc LFO posted in a topic about Cambage (somewhere around here), that after the first 4 years, the contract $ #'s can be renegotiated. Shoni attracts enough attention that she may have been advised to wait, just on that alone.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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Location: London
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| Posted: 04/28/17 3:23 pm ::: |
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| 5thmantheme wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
Shoni is still under her original rookie contract. This would be the last year (4).
The article seems to suggest that she might still be suffering from her concussion incurred in August. And yet, someone supposedly spotted her playing basketball recently. Hmmm. I do know that in hockey players have missed long periods due to concussions. The Rangers lost a promising young defenseman, 24-25 years old, who never came back at all. |
"Schimmel, who has missed the start of training camp, sustained a concussion last August that kept her off the court for the remainder of the 2016 season."
Yeah, don't wanna come back til fully healed. Eric Lindros of Philly was another conc'ed out.
iirc LFO posted in a topic about Cambage (somewhere around here), that after the first 4 years, the contract $ #'s can be renegotiated. Shoni attracts enough attention that she may have been advised to wait, just on that alone. |
Yeah, the rookie scale deal will expire, but she'll be a reserved player only able to 'negotiate' with the Liberty, and no one's going to be giving her more than the minimum anyway |
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 04/28/17 3:31 pm ::: |
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| Maybe basketball, or at least professional basketball just isn't what she wants to be doing right now. It takes a lot of time and energy in any industry to compete at the highest level, and if your heart isn't in it there is nothing wrong with taking some time away to re-evaluate your situation, or even stepping away permanently.
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 4174
Location: QUEENS!!!!
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| Posted: 04/28/17 5:14 pm ::: |
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That sounds backwards in many ways...But with Prince missing time midseason It would make sense to have sugar Boyd Hartley as some combo...that would be speed on speed on speed...and you go finesse at 2 and allen when slowing it down...if he's really gonna run and gun this makes more sense than Prince at 1...but it doesn't fit the conventional logic but that's what makes it interesting...I wont comment until I see it...it has potential.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Location: NJ
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| Posted: 04/28/17 7:25 pm ::: |
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| That article basically confirms the fact that as of now, our starters at PG, SG & SF is very much up in the air.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 04/28/17 8:11 pm ::: |
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| If it makes you guys feel any better, ATL drafted Jordan Reynolds with the second round pick you spent on Schimmel. So you actually got some decent use out of Schimmel, while ATL's pick will likely be cut.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 04/28/17 8:19 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
I'm really depressed by the ugly tone in some comments about Shoni Schimmel. I've never met her, she was never a favorite player of mine, I didn't expect to see her on the Liberty this season, and I don't feel invested in defending her.
But suppose it's true (everyone is simply guessing right now) that Schimmel is uncertain about whether she wants to continue in the WNBA or in professional basketball anywhere. Is that a crime against fans?
I see no evidence that Shoni Schimmel is hurting anyone. I wish her well with whatever path she pursues. |
I will say that now we know it is her decision not to show up to camp, it disappoints me in just one respect. She has a contract. Between not being in shape last year and not showing up on time this year, she is not honoring a commitment she has made by signing a contract. And I feel she has a certain obligation to her teammates while under contract.
And I like her game...and the flash with which she plays. And I don't want her to have regrets about wasted talent later. While that is purely her decision, being under contract is another matter. It implies a degree of obligation that she has not fulfilled, in my opinion.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 04/28/17 8:23 pm ::: |
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| LFO wrote: |
| I must say that it makes great reading the Libs fans thoughts about our team. As always, some are way off the wall, intriguing, or right on. The given is, Tina is leading. |
That last part is good to hear. We are privileged to have this type of info on the board. It's one of the best parts about coming here. In addition, I'm hoping not too many of my statements are of the "off the wall" variety.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 04/28/17 8:33 pm ::: |
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| Off the wall is good too. We have to provide Bill with something to laugh over!
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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Location: New York City
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| Posted: 04/28/17 8:40 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Bob Lamm wrote: |
I'm really depressed by the ugly tone in some comments about Shoni Schimmel. I've never met her, she was never a favorite player of mine, I didn't expect to see her on the Liberty this season, and I don't feel invested in defending her.
But suppose it's true (everyone is simply guessing right now) that Schimmel is uncertain about whether she wants to continue in the WNBA or in professional basketball anywhere. Is that a crime against fans?
I see no evidence that Shoni Schimmel is hurting anyone. I wish her well with whatever path she pursues. |
I will say that now we know it is her decision not to show up to camp, it disappoints me in just one respect. She has a contract. Between not being in shape last year and not showing up on time this year, she is not honoring a commitment she has made by signing a contract. And I feel she has a certain obligation to her teammates while under contract.
And I like her game...and the flash with which she plays. And I don't want her to have regrets about wasted talent later. While that is purely her decision, being under contract is another matter. It implies a degree of obligation that she has not fulfilled, in my opinion. |
This is almost funny. The star of our team, the player who we all hope will bring us a championship, didn't want to fulfill her contract in Connecticut. She wanted out and she was able to force that to happen. Which I think was absolutely fine. I'm incredibly glad that she was successful. Are you going to hold Tina Charles to the same standard that you're holding Shoni Schimmel?
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 04/28/17 8:46 pm ::: |
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No, because I don't see those two as being the same thing. I'm holding Tina Charles to the same standard as Cappie Pondexter, EDD and Katie Douglas, all players who have either requested or forced trades to be closer to where they wanted to be in terms of location. I don't mind it for two reasons. I think the WNBA "coring" of players unfairly prevents players from experiencing true free agency more than any other pro sports league. Just like in the NFL I don't care if players hold out because the contract system where a player is only guaranteed the bonus money of the contract tilts the system decidedly against the players. And WNBA players are paid a pittance and stars can't negotiate to be paid their true value. In any sport involving any real money, there wouldn't be such heavy free agency restrictions, and stars would be paid what they are worth. I don't blame them for using the only leverage they've got. If overseas money for stars wasn't 6-10 times higher, this wouldn't be a conversation at all. Unlike Tina and Cappie, Shoni has never even played overseas.
Furthermore, these players haven't had issues with physical conditioning or integrating with their teams properly when they have played. They wanted a change of location and would sit out if they didn't get it, and not get paid. Shoni has not demonstrated a commitment to any team she has been on, even when she has been a part of the team, when it comes to physical conditioning or off-season development of her game. That's a 180 degree difference from Tina, EDD, etc. And to suggest anything else is simply a false equivalence.
But if she doesn't want to play, hey, at the end of the day it's her decision. I'm not ridiculing her for it or calling her anything that would be construed as personal or ugly. But unlike any of the other players named above, Shoni has not really demonstrated a consistent commitment to playing basketball. Even when she has actually been a part of teams and playing. And I think that's pretty inarguable given what we know that is actually fact.
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Last edited by NYL_WNBA_FAN on 04/28/17 8:57 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 04/28/17 8:47 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
This is almost funny. The star of our team, the player who we all hope will bring us a championship, didn't want to fulfill her contract in Connecticut. She wanted out and she was able to force that to happen. Which I think was absolutely fine. I'm incredibly glad that she was successful. Are you going to hold Tina Charles to the same standard that you're holding Shoni Schimmel? |
I have tried to get over this. I know Tina's charity work is really worthwhile...but I still have a niggling disappointment in her for forcing the trade in the way in which it was done. And CT really, truly got screwed...more than just about any of the other forced trades. Well except for Chicago when Dupree demanded her trade and then Fowles. But Fowles I give a bit of leeway to because she had served a lot of time there. EDD is bad, but I think Chicago at least got players with value in exchange.
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If only we’re brave enough to be it.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 04/28/17 8:51 pm ::: |
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| CT screwed themselves too in part. Elizabeth Williams was one of the pieces they received, and she'd be a centerpiece of that team defensively if they'd retained her and used her correctly. Kelsey Bone was an all-star two years after the trade, but a system change and attitude problems forced a change of scenery for her as well. But if you took Bone's all-star year, Williams and Thomas, there's at least some value there. Not equal to Tina. But certainly more than Chicago got for Fowles. And possibly more than Chicago got for EDD although the jury is out on that.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 04/28/17 9:16 pm ::: |
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I guess I just fall more on the side of the players in these issues.
All of the "forced" trades in question have happened while the player was a RFA or a cored UFA in both cases the player is no longer under contract, if a team after 4 or 7 years isn't able to do enough that a star player wants to stay and is willing to sit out that is IMO a player simply using all the tools they have on their side to negotiate themselves into a better situation. And of course the low pay scale and these professional athletes needing a 2nd job that pays more is what has really created the situation in the first place. Hind sight s 20/20 but Chalres for E. Williams, A. Thomas and K. Bone isn't that bad IMO, yes Charles is the best player in the deal, but three starter level players for one isn't too bad. (Yeah the Fowles trade was a rip-off but I wouldn't be too surprised if there was a better deal on the table at some point earlier that got rejected, and even in the case Chicago and all teams in these trades could have played hard ball and let the player sit, even if their hand was a little forced by the player, they still agreed to the trades in question, they could have also done nothing, that was always on the table.)
In regards to Schimmel and her contract the contract basically says you play basketball for our team and we pay you X, so if she is not playing basketball for the team, she will not get paid. If a team can waive her when ever they want, I don't see why she can't decide to not play and not get paid.
I will miss seeing Schimmel on the team this year, but realistically she was competing for the 11th or 12th spot and there was a decent shot she wasn't going to make it.
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dab44lb
Joined: 16 May 2007
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Location: The Bronx
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| Posted: 04/28/17 9:22 pm ::: |
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| There is a huge difference between Schimmel and Charles. One put in work and her time until she was deserving of orchestrating a trade using leverage. The other is Schoni. When she showed up in year 2 in Atlanta out of shape, she let her teammates down. Did she learn her lesson, no year 3 she was so out of shape she couldn't get on the court and got traded. Did she learn her lesson then, apparently not she hasn't shown up to camp. I can't give any leeway to someone that shows no respect for her teammates or this league. I have nothing left for her until she grows up and shows this sport some respect.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 04/28/17 9:27 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| If it makes you guys feel any better, ATL drafted Jordan Reynolds with the second round pick you spent on Schimmel. So you actually got some decent use out of Schimmel, while ATL's pick will likely be cut. |
Shades I think you need to check that. I believe we traded the Liberty 2nd round pick to Indy for Clarendon. She has turned out to be a useful player. Indy used the pick to draft Ronnie Williams, who I suspect won't make that team. Atlanta benefited a lot from the pick, but Indy probably not so much.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 04/28/17 9:36 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
| In regards to Schimmel and her contract the contract basically says you play basketball for our team and we pay you X, so if she is not playing basketball for the team, she will not get paid. If a team can waive her when ever they want, I don't see why she can't decide to not play and not get paid. |
I completely agree.
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Shades
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 04/29/17 8:46 am ::: |
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| Nobody is "on a ledge" over losing a second round pick for a player that everyone knew was a shot in the dark last year anyway. We all knew she probably wasn't going to make the team once Allen was drafted and I think most of us like the direction the team is heading in regardless of whether Shoni is here or not.
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