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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 04/21/17 2:38 am    ::: Shattered Reply Reply with quote

Yikes! New Behind-the-Scenes Book Brutalizes the Clinton Campaign


Quote:
Most don't see elections as organic movements within populations of millions, but as dueling contests of "whip-smart" organizers who know how to get the cattle to vote the right way. If someone wins an election, the inevitable Beltway conclusion is that the winner had better puppeteers.


7 Takeaways From a New Book on the Clinton Campaign

Quote:
From the jump, Clinton could not decide what the campaign was about, leaving it like Seinfeld, the show that was famously about nothing. That became clear as early as the spring of 2015, when her speechwriters struggled to pinpoint themes in her announcement speech. Veteran Democratic hands enlisted to punch up a formless pudding of an address, like former Obama scribe Jon Favreau, were left with the sense, the authors write, that "Hillary didn't have a vision to articulate. And no one else could give one to her."


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump is not president.


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PostPosted: 04/21/17 10:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Even a so-called "no vision", conducted within the general framework of the Democrats' Platform, is light years better than the snake oil con man and his merry band of billionaires who are bent on continuing the upward flow of wealth redistribution and dismantling of New Deal/Great Society reforms.

Yeah, Hillary has the personality of a rock. So what?

But don't worry, it's gonna be great. So great. Believe me. We're gonna win again. There's gonna be so much winning your head is gonna spin. Trust me. No one loves the bible more than me. Believe me. I have words, I have the best words. I know more than the generals. I will defeat ISIS and repeal Obamacare on Day 1. It's a disaster. You know this. I'm gonna make America great again. Only I can do it. I'm gonna make great deals. Trust me. Believe me.



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 04/21/17 11:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As long as people persist in believing there are only two options, they're going to be forced into choosing between bad and worse.



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Richard 77



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 04/21/17 10:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
As long as people persist in believing there are only two options, they're going to be forced into choosing between bad and worse.


Yeah, but the problem with the 2016 election, there was no bad, just two worse. No matter who became president, evil would reside in the white house.



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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 10705
Location: Oklahoma (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 04/22/17 10:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richard 77 wrote:
pilight wrote:
As long as people persist in believing there are only two options, they're going to be forced into choosing between bad and worse.


Yeah, but the problem with the 2016 election, there was no bad, just two worse. No matter who became president, evil would reside in the white house.

Now, THAT'S just utter bullshit. Please define exactly what part of First Lady/Senator/Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's candidacy was "evil". Rolling Eyes I didn't love Hillary, either, but NEVER saw anything that resembled "evil". That's like saying if we had to chose between Marty the local pot dealer or Charles Manson, either way, "evil" would be in the white house


cthskzfn wrote:
But don't worry, it's gonna be great. So great. Believe me. We're gonna win again. There's gonna be so much winning your head is gonna spin. Trust me. No one loves the bible more than me. Believe me. I have words, I have the best words. I know more than the generals. I will defeat ISIS and repeal Obamacare on Day 1. It's a disaster. You know this. I'm gonna make America great again. Only I can do it. I'm gonna make great deals. Trust me. Believe me.
Laughing Laughing What!!?? That's not specific enough for you??? Razz



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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 8787
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump is not president.


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PostPosted: 04/22/17 8:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richard 77 wrote:
pilight wrote:
As long as people persist in believing there are only two options, they're going to be forced into choosing between bad and worse.


Yeah, but the problem with the 2016 election, there was no bad, just two worse. No matter who became president, evil would reside in the white house.




Nonsense. This is the bullshit of "both sides do it", as presented by corporate media.

Clinton can't even imagine how to be as skeevy as Trump, who will prove to be the most corrupt, pathetic president in living memory.



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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump is not president.


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PostPosted: 04/22/17 8:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
pilight wrote:
As long as people persist in believing there are only two options, they're going to be forced into choosing between bad and worse.


Yeah, but the problem with the 2016 election, there was no bad, just two worse. No matter who became president, evil would reside in the white house.

Now, THAT'S just utter bullshit. Please define exactly what part of First Lady/Senator/Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's candidacy was "evil". Rolling Eyes I didn't love Hillary, either, but NEVER saw anything that resembled "evil". That's like saying if we had to chose between Marty the local pot dealer or Charles Manson, either way, "evil" would be in the white house


cthskzfn wrote:
But don't worry, it's gonna be great. So great. Believe me. We're gonna win again. There's gonna be so much winning your head is gonna spin. Trust me. No one loves the bible more than me. Believe me. I have words, I have the best words. I know more than the generals. I will defeat ISIS and repeal Obamacare on Day 1. It's a disaster. You know this. I'm gonna make America great again. Only I can do it. I'm gonna make great deals. Trust me. Believe me.
Laughing Laughing What!!?? That's not specific enough for you??? Razz


Did you hear Don the Con's recent comments re: the healthcare bill??!!

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Laughing Laughing



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mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 04/23/17 10:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

History is not afraid of the gender card, and it's not afraid of the race card. When history looks back at how America treated Hillary Clinton, it's not going to be a good look.

I'm interested in seeing when the media decides to take a look at themselves and share some of the blame in what happened.


As for the "two person race"..first off, Clinton was easily the best choice between the top four candidates. The other three were literally crazy people. (Well, okay..two were crazy, one was just stoned.) Second..as long as the electoral college exists, it IS a race between two people - at the end.



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TALENT

What it takes to play a gay pirate, a gay candymaker, and a gay mad hatter, and still land a role as John Dilinger.
mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 17812



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PostPosted: 04/23/17 10:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
pilight wrote:
As long as people persist in believing there are only two options, they're going to be forced into choosing between bad and worse.


Yeah, but the problem with the 2016 election, there was no bad, just two worse. No matter who became president, evil would reside in the white house.




Nonsense. This is the bullshit of "both sides do it", as presented by corporate media.

Clinton can't even imagine how to be as skeevy as Trump, who will prove to be the most corrupt, pathetic president in living memory.


Truth. Quit treating the Republican and Democratic party like they are the same. They aren't. Literally every inch of progress made by this country, has come from laws the Democratic party has enacted..and literally every step backward, has been from Republicans...and that was from before they jumped the shark. Now..good Lord..



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TALENT

What it takes to play a gay pirate, a gay candymaker, and a gay mad hatter, and still land a role as John Dilinger.
ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 04/24/17 2:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:

Truth. Quit treating the Republican and Democratic party like they are the same. They aren't. Literally every inch of progress made by this country, has come from laws the Democratic party has enacted..and literally every step backward, has been from Republicans...and that was from before they jumped the shark. Now..good Lord..


This is such typical bullshit propaganda from you. Just a few of the many examples of Republican led and created domestic policy legislation in recent times:

Civil Rights Act of 1957 - the first major piece of civil rights legislation in the modern era. Passed by a GOP president. Vote in the House - Republicans 167–19 for, Democrats 118–107 for; in the Republicans 43–0 for, Democrats 29–18 for.

National Environmental Policy Act (creation of EPA)

Occupational Safety and Health Act (creation of OSHA)

Endangered Species Act

No Child Left Behind Act

Medicare Part D prescription drug benefit program

Bush actually tried hard (although in the end unsuccessfully) to pass a comprehensive immigration reform act providing a path to citizenship for undocumented aliens, something neither Clinton nor Obama ever attempted.

And of course, you attributed "every inch of progress made by this country" to the democrats, which ignores that Presidents such as Abraham Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt were............you guessed it ..........Republicans.

You are so wrapped up in labels that you have lost all track of reality. You just spout the same phony platitudes over and over and over again. Just a litany of ridiculous fanciful talking points. Unthinking knee-jerk zealots like you on both sides of the aisle are our nation's biggest political problem.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 10705
Location: Oklahoma (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 04/24/17 2:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
No Child Left Behind Act


Just for the record, THIS was NOT anything of value that anyone should want credit for. Razz

AND. Roosevelt and Lincoln would have no part of TODAY's GOP. But that supports the idea of how spurious *labels* can be.



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mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 04/24/17 4:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:


This is such typical bullshit propaganda from you. Just a few of the many examples of Republican led and created domestic policy legislation in recent times:

Civil Rights Act of 1957 - the first major piece of civil rights legislation in the modern era. Passed by a GOP president. Vote in the House - Republicans 167–19 for, Democrats 118–107 for; in the Republicans 43–0 for, Democrats 29–18 for.

National Environmental Policy Act (creation of EPA)

Occupational Safety and Health Act (creation of OSHA)

Endangered Species Act

Medicare Part D prescription drug benefit program





Do you honestly think Richard Nixon fits into the modern day GOP? Would he be a conservative by your definition?

Are you just ignoring political ideologies?

As for the Civil Rights Act? Are you playing dumb, or actually dumb?



Quote:
And of course, you attributed "every inch of progress made by this country" to the democrats, which ignores that Presidents such as Abraham Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt were............you guessed it ..........Republicans.


I'll repeat. Are you dumb or are you playing dumb?

Quote:

You are so wrapped up in labels that you have lost all track of reality. You just spout the same phony platitudes over and over and over again. Just a litany of ridiculous fanciful talking points. Unthinking knee-jerk zealots like you on both sides of the aisle are our nation's biggest political problem.



You are so wrapped up in this pompous idea that because you are "neutral", you are objective. You look silly.

It is not accurate to look at the state of the Republican party, since Reagan, and think it is the same as the Democratic party.

"Democrats" are synonymous right now with the more liberal party. If you'd like me to change my phrasing to "the more liberal party" ..whatever, have at it. It means the same thing. It's not about labels, it's about ideology. (And yes, it's the same fucking ideology. We're still having the Federalist vs. Anti-federalist argument) The liberal party is the party that historically creates positive change, the conservative party is the one that has held us back..and has continued to do so at an alarming rate in recent history.



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TALENT

What it takes to play a gay pirate, a gay candymaker, and a gay mad hatter, and still land a role as John Dilinger.
ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 04/24/17 7:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well that's imaginative of you. But I'm not the clown who wrote quite plainly

mercfan3 wrote:


Quit treating the Republican and Democratic party like they are the same. They aren't. Literally every inch of progress made by this country, has come from laws the Democratic party has enacted..and literally every step backward, has been from Republicans.


But now when the manifest foolishness of that statement is pointed out, supposedly you're not the one who's dumb for writing it, but rather I'm the one who's dumb for assuming you meant exactly what you wrote. Interesting.

I suppose that in the normal course I would have recognized that the statement was so absurd that the author must not have meant what they plainly wrote, but in this instance, you have such a track record of similar nonsense that I had to assume you were serious.

Now I understand that I should assume in the future that what you write is just more meaningless fictional left wing tripe and is not to be read literally or paid any heed. Now that that's straightened out you should feel free to continue with your backtracking.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 4037
Location: Heisenberg


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PostPosted: 04/24/17 8:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Such anger.

Democrats are perhaps still bitter that the Republicans took away their slaves after the Civil War.

Fortunately, however, the Dems have progressed to become more tolerant today than when they formed the Ku Klux Klan immediately after the Civil War to oppose the Republican Party's Reconstruction-era policies to establish political and economic equality for blacks.

The Lib-Dems then progressed into a love affair with totalitarian communism, and especially Russia, during the first half of the 20th century.

Now the Dems have toned it down to where they are merely Fascist in their anti-First Amendment, and often violent, opposition to allowing opposing views even to be spoken on university campuses. And their primary form of political, social and cultural argumentation is usually nothing more substantive than slinging tired insults, labels and vulgarities.

Yes, so "progressive".

These observations do not apply to all or even most Democrats historically or currently, but they do to a very significant subset. This intolerant, out-of-touch, Democrat ingrown-toenail-ism shows up in the book that is the OP's topic.
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 04/24/17 9:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:


Bush actually tried hard (although in the end unsuccessfully) to pass a comprehensive immigration reform act providing a path to citizenship for undocumented aliens, something neither Clinton nor Obama ever attempted..


Two thumbs up for Clinton and Obama avoiding another amnesty for ILLEGAL aliens which is a reward to them from America's rich for long term damage they have done to American workers. But none of them wanted to prosecute the rich who hire illegal workers.


mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 04/25/17 4:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Well that's imaginative of you. But I'm not the clown who wrote quite plainly

mercfan3 wrote:


Quit treating the Republican and Democratic party like they are the same. They aren't. Literally every inch of progress made by this country, has come from laws the Democratic party has enacted..and literally every step backward, has been from Republicans.


But now when the manifest foolishness of that statement is pointed out, supposedly you're not the one who's dumb for writing it, but rather I'm the one who's dumb for assuming you meant exactly what you wrote. Interesting.

I suppose that in the normal course I would have recognized that the statement was so absurd that the author must not have meant what they plainly wrote, but in this instance, you have such a track record of similar nonsense that I had to assume you were serious.

Now I understand that I should assume in the future that what you write is just more meaningless fictional left wing tripe and is not to be read literally or paid any heed. Now that that's straightened out you should feel free to continue with your backtracking.


Personal insults and strawman arguments.

Continue looking like the idiot, please.



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TALENT

What it takes to play a gay pirate, a gay candymaker, and a gay mad hatter, and still land a role as John Dilinger.
ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 04/26/17 12:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:

Personal insults and strawman arguments.

Continue looking like the idiot, please.


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Classic Clinton. Right out of the Billary playbook. When exposed as a fraud yet again, turn reality on its head and attack, attack, attack. You've obviously been studying hard. Laughing Laughing Laughing

You call me "dumb" and now an "idiot" and then YOU complain about insults. Wow. Just classic.

Keep up the hard work and soon it might be your turn to be the Democratic nominee in some losing effort.


scullyfu



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PostPosted: 04/26/17 1:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pompous people really are off-putting. that is all.



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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 04/26/17 5:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

An oft-employed tactic by those on the wrong side of an argument is to pick nits, then amplify them, in order to detract from the general truth of what has been said.

Replace "literally" with "most", and the comment is spot on, especially from 1932 on.

Teddy Roosevelt would be labelled left of Bernie and skewered daily by the usual rightwing assholes on FUX NEWS and white geezer hate radio today.

And as the biggest asshole to pose as POTUS attempts to drop the corporate tax rate to 15% and line his pockets with other reductions and eliminations, remember that during the glory days of the American White 50s, those times that so many soured, pissed off white guys yearn for, the highest tax rate was 91% and corporations paid a much bigger percentage of tax revenue than they do today.

If I see ONE reporter or pundit mention that "trickle down" has always FAILED as an economic stimulus, I'll die of shock. Same old bullshit, and the same fucking white idiots will buy it hook, line, and sinker.



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 04/26/17 5:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

scullyfu wrote:
pompous people really are off-putting. that is all.


That is a big part of why Clinton lost, yes



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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump is not president.


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PostPosted: 04/26/17 5:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
scullyfu wrote:
pompous people really are off-putting. that is all.


That is a big part of why Clinton lost, yes


Of course, nearly 3 million more voters preferred her pompousness to that of the current Pomposity Of The United States.



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