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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7841 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 04/19/17 10:09 am ::: |
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I think this is a specious thread that Glenn started to try to ignite a dumpster fire.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9620
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Posted: 04/19/17 12:26 pm ::: |
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Ay Mate wrote: |
muffett is an excellent coach. There are a very few excellent coaches out there. But fact is, there's Geno and then there's everyone else. Everyone knew this was the year to beat them after drafting the top three players in the WNBA. Mississippi State were the lucky ones that caught UConn at just the right time this season.
Next season, UConn is heavily favored like they WERENT this year. Their streak had to end. I'm a big UConn fan and happy another team won. UConn has 4 in a row. That's enough for now. Let someone else have the season because next season it's back to UConn 100%. |
UConn was undefeated (wins over Norte Dame, South Carolina, Maryland and Ohio State) and heavily favored this year. They lost 3 players to the WNBA, but still had National Players of the Year and US and Canadian National Team members.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9620
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Posted: 04/19/17 12:29 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
Since some conferences are less competitive than others, a tournament is very important. What am I missing here? |
Compare the number of games in a tournament to the number in a season.
Is the final results of the tournament a better view of the team rankings than a season of play? A better judge of a coach?
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012 Posts: 5423
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Posted: 04/19/17 1:07 pm ::: |
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tfan wrote: |
Shades wrote: |
Since some conferences are less competitive than others, a tournament is very important. What am I missing here? |
Compare the number of games in a tournament to the number in a season.
Is the final results of the tournament a better view of the team rankings than a season of play? A better judge of a coach? |
I've had this discussion in the past and my position has always been that the entire season is a better measure but the reality is that coaches and teams are judged primarily by the NCAA tournament, either how far they get with regards to top teams, or whether or not they get invited in the cases of most other teams.
Without the NCAA's Warlick may not still have her job. Her regular season results, given the talent she has had, has been average to poor over the last 3 years. There were some nice wins this year but far more bad losses. But twice she has turned bad seasons into good ones by making the E8.
In most sports the measure of a season is the performance on the big stage.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9620
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Posted: 04/19/17 1:37 pm ::: |
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linkster wrote: |
In most sports the measure of a season is the performance on the big stage. |
But they try to avoid single elimination. I guess football is to tiring to do that.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012 Posts: 5423
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Posted: 04/19/17 2:20 pm ::: |
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tfan wrote: |
linkster wrote: |
In most sports the measure of a season is the performance on the big stage. |
But they try to avoid single elimination. I guess football is to tiring to do that. |
I've always favored shrinking the NCAA field to 32, playing 2 single elimination rounds the first weekend and then making the E8 play a double elimination tournament for the championship. Politics makes that unlikely to an extreme.
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Ay Mate
Joined: 12 Nov 2016 Posts: 1280
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Posted: 04/19/17 3:56 pm ::: |
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tfan wrote: |
Ay Mate wrote: |
muffett is an excellent coach. There are a very few excellent coaches out there. But fact is, there's Geno and then there's everyone else. Everyone knew this was the year to beat them after drafting the top three players in the WNBA. Mississippi State were the lucky ones that caught UConn at just the right time this season.
Next season, UConn is heavily favored like they WERENT this year. Their streak had to end. I'm a big UConn fan and happy another team won. UConn has 4 in a row. That's enough for now. Let someone else have the season because next season it's back to UConn 100%. |
UConn was undefeated (wins over Norte Dame, South Carolina, Maryland and Ohio State) and heavily favored this year. They lost 3 players to the WNBA, but still had National Players of the Year and US and Canadian National Team members. |
True. They were favored come tournament time but they weren't favored at all to win those games earlier in the regular season.
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CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004 Posts: 1055 Location: PA
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Posted: 04/25/17 1:14 am ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
I think this is a specious thread that Glenn started to try to ignite a dumpster fire. |
Yeah, I wasn't taking the bait.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18371 Location: Phoenix
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Posted: 04/25/17 9:00 am ::: |
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CBiebel wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
I think this is a specious thread that Glenn started to try to ignite a dumpster fire. |
Yeah, I wasn't taking the bait. |
X________________
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12535 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 04/25/17 9:06 am ::: |
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CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
CBiebel wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
I think this is a specious thread that Glenn started to try to ignite a dumpster fire. |
Yeah, I wasn't taking the bait. |
X________________ |
xx________________________________
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32335
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5155 Location: Carson City
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Posted: 04/27/17 4:38 pm ::: |
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tfan wrote: |
With regard to her "choking", how many seasons was Notre Dame ranked #1 at the end of the year (and ideally for most of the year)? |
The answer is zero. Since 2000 UConn has been ranked #1 in the final AP poll 12 times and has won the national championship 8 of those years. They have also won the NC in 2013 (when they were third) and 2004 (sixth). Baylor has been #1 twice (2012 and 2013) and has been the NC twice (2005 as the #5 team and 2012.) Tennessee has won two championships but has not been ranked #1. In 2007 they won as the #4 team and in 2008 as the #3 team. Duke (twice), North Carolina and Stanford have been the #1 team at the end of the year without winning an NC. Conversely Maryland (#3 in 2006), South Carolina (#4 in 2017) and Texas A&M (#7 in 2011) won the NC but were not ranked #1.
I would certainly not use the word "choke" for any of these teams or coaches. The Duke program has probably underperformed their ranking the most over this period but when you have so few top teams that are consistently at the top the word isn't appropriate. In the past six years UConn and Notre Dame have been in the top 5 each year, Baylor has been in 5 years, Maryland 4, South Carolina 4 and these five teams have been the top 5 each of the last three years. Only Stanford 3 times and Louisville and Cal once each, have also broke through.
Even more surprising, over the past 18 years only 7 teams account for over 2/3 of the top 5 slots (61 of 90), and only 23 teams have been there even once. Every national champion has been ranked in the top 7 and half have been number one. This concentration at the top makes it very difficult to grow the game.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8227 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 04/27/17 7:13 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
every time I see the title of this thread I just go |
Admittedly, I have zero experience using those round cartoon thingies, but I don't believe for a minute, Myrtle, that you can simultaneously keep your eyes wide open and also blinking.
I opened this thread with the admission that Muffet is "more liked, more Teflon and less criticized" than just about any other coach and is "universally praised".
But in order to provoke some critical discusion about her, I asked some provocative questions about "choking" and "losing it". Note that these were all posed as questions, not as my conclusions, my opinions nor even as arguments.
However, I did lay out some background. Muffet has lost some tournament games that, in opinions I've read and heard, she should have won. The topic was most recently suggested by her losses to Stanford the past two years, which many have said she should have won. It's also a heard opinion that Notre Dame shouldn't have lost to TAMU in the finals or to UConn a few years ago. Muffet was upset by 10th seeded Minnesota in the first round in 2009.
So I wonder how many times Muffet has lost to lower ranked teams throughout her 25 years of post-season tournament losses.
For example, can anyone here explain how she came in 7th in the WNIT in 1989 with a 20-11 team, or 8th in that tournament with a 23-9 team in 1991? Ahah . . . no one has considered these famous historical mysteries.
Similarly, no one has addressed the recent, high visibility player departures from the program, which seem very atypical for a Muffet team. Does losing these players not betoken any sort of evidence that something may be awry in South Bend?
RebKellians have no inhibitions about calling out other coaches with superb records, with numerous appearances in the NCAA tournament, Final Four appearances, NC wins, and memberships in the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame and even the Naismith Hall of Fame. For example, I give you such objets-de-sadism as Holly Warlick, Joanne McCallie, Sylvia Hatchell, Andy Landers and Vivian Stringer. Geno Auriemma is constantly insulted, though usually not for losing. He has, however, been accused of blowing close games, OT games and some tournament games, even by his own fans and himself.
Why should Muffet McGraw be such an untouchable China doll? |
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