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Is Chantel Osahor better than Diamond DeShields?

 
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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 04/03/17 11:48 am    ::: Is Chantel Osahor better than Diamond DeShields? Reply Reply with quote

Osahor is making All-American teams. DeShields is making none.

Is this truly a reflection of their respective basketball abilities?

Or of voter bias, either for or against something?

Or a focus on the wrong end of the endoscope?

Or what?
ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 04/03/17 11:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In answer to your leadoff question:

NO, not even close.

I think it's people getting carried away with a curiosity.

And of DeShields getting punished for (1) not livingup to expectations and (2) earning a reputation as a freshman for being a self-centered hot dog ( a reputation that is hard to shake whether deserved today or not).

In some respects Osahor represents all that DeShields isn't. Someone who seems to play hard and unselfishly and well outperforms her apparent talents. People WANT to like Osahor and want her to succeed. Nobody is going out of their way to vote for DeShields. She's not a sympathetic character.

Their objective skills and performance get lost along the way.




Last edited by ArtBest23 on 04/03/17 11:56 am; edited 2 times in total
summertime blues



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PostPosted: 04/03/17 11:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They don't play the same position.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 04/03/17 12:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would say Osahor was better at what she did than DeShields at what she did.
While Osahor was a big part of why a team like Washington exceeded expectations for two years in a row, DeShields is often pointed to as the reason Tennessee fails to meet their higher expectations.

I mean, how are you not going to recognize the leading rebounder in the country? What has DeShields done that's worthy of note?



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/03/17 12:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:


I mean, how are you not going to recognize the leading rebounder in the country?


Maybe I just missed their names, but I don't recall seeing Anna Strickland, Vicky McIntyre, Jillian Alleyn, or Artemis Spanou as All Americans the past four years. Were you insisting on their inclusion too?


linkster



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PostPosted: 04/03/17 12:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Osahor is a better rebounder and a better outside shooter. I'd have picked DeShields if points were put on the board for tricky dribbling, spin moves, and graceful runs down the court. But they don't. Rolling Eyes


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PostPosted: 04/03/17 1:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The tortoise and the hare.

Hare looks better, runs faster, hops higher, loses the race.



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22



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PostPosted: 04/04/17 12:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Shades wrote:


I mean, how are you not going to recognize the leading rebounder in the country?


Maybe I just missed their names, but I don't recall seeing Anna Strickland, Vicky McIntyre, Jillian Alleyn, or Artemis Spanou as All Americans the past four years. Were you insisting on their inclusion too?


How many of them also shot > 40% from 3 and avg. > 4 assists/gm?


Ay Mate



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PostPosted: 04/04/17 8:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The question is..
Will Osahor's game translate into the WNBA? Which teams could she be a good fit with? I would try her out in CT as JJ's backup. She'd be good for 10-15 minutes to grab a bunch of rebounds and make a couple shots while JJ takes a breather.


zvyn3



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PostPosted: 04/04/17 8:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

22 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Shades wrote:


I mean, how are you not going to recognize the leading rebounder in the country?


Maybe I just missed their names, but I don't recall seeing Anna Strickland, Vicky McIntyre, Jillian Alleyn, or Artemis Spanou as All Americans the past four years. Were you insisting on their inclusion too?


How many of them also shot > 40% from 3 and avg. > 4 assists/gm?


Osahor didn't shoot > 40% from 3.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 04/04/17 11:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Comparing Osahor to DeShields is a little like comparing oranges and watermelons. Both good, but completely unalike in any respect.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/04/17 12:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zvyn3 wrote:
22 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Shades wrote:


I mean, how are you not going to recognize the leading rebounder in the country?


Maybe I just missed their names, but I don't recall seeing Anna Strickland, Vicky McIntyre, Jillian Alleyn, or Artemis Spanou as All Americans the past four years. Were you insisting on their inclusion too?


How many of them also shot > 40% from 3 and avg. > 4 assists/gm?


Osahor didn't shoot > 40% from 3.


There you go, confusing things with facts. Very Happy


22



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PostPosted: 04/04/17 12:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zvyn3 wrote:
22 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Shades wrote:


I mean, how are you not going to recognize the leading rebounder in the country?


Maybe I just missed their names, but I don't recall seeing Anna Strickland, Vicky McIntyre, Jillian Alleyn, or Artemis Spanou as All Americans the past four years. Were you insisting on their inclusion too?


How many of them also shot > 40% from 3 and avg. > 4 assists/gm?


Osahor didn't shoot > 40% from 3.


Correct - she shot 37.2% (126-184) for the full season... I inadvertently looked at her conference season-only #s, when she shot 40.6% (70-105).

The question still stands: did any of the others shoot 37% from 3 and avg. > 4 assists/gm (to go along w her 15.8 rpg)?


myrtle



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PostPosted: 04/04/17 2:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Without considering who will be better in the future (the initial question didn't ask how they would do in the W), if you consider what they did this year in college, then IMO yes, Osahor outperformed Deshields and thus deserves mention on the AA teams more than DD.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/04/17 2:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

22 wrote:
zvyn3 wrote:
22 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Shades wrote:


I mean, how are you not going to recognize the leading rebounder in the country?


Maybe I just missed their names, but I don't recall seeing Anna Strickland, Vicky McIntyre, Jillian Alleyn, or Artemis Spanou as All Americans the past four years. Were you insisting on their inclusion too?


How many of them also shot > 40% from 3 and avg. > 4 assists/gm?


Osahor didn't shoot > 40% from 3.


Correct - she shot 37.2% (126-184) for the full season... I inadvertently looked at her conference season-only #s, when she shot 40.6% (70-105).

The question still stands: did any of the others shoot 37% from 3 and avg. > 4 assists/gm (to go along w her 15.8 rpg)?


Who cares? First, the post asked "how can you overlook the rebound leader ". Other stats weren't part of it. The point is that rebound leaders get "overlooked" routinely. Second, unless you do a full comparison of the players' total performance, 37% from the arc and 4 apg isn't earning AA status for anyone. So the question may still stand, but it's stil lirrelevant. I'm not even bothering to look up other stats for the other players.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 04/04/17 2:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Without considering who will be better in the future (the initial question didn't ask how they would do in the W), if you consider what they did this year in college, then IMO yes, Osahor outperformed Deshields and thus deserves mention on the AA teams more than DD.


Not to go off topic but do you feel the same about Vivians vs Deshields also ? I agree Osahor had a better season overall but Tori was suspect.



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Queenie



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PostPosted: 04/04/17 7:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Shades wrote:


I mean, how are you not going to recognize the leading rebounder in the country?


Maybe I just missed their names, but I don't recall seeing Anna Strickland, Vicky McIntyre, Jillian Alleyn, or Artemis Spanou as All Americans the past four years. Were you insisting on their inclusion too?


FWIW, I'd have been happy if Alleyne or Spanou got nods their respective years. Underappreciated, IMO.



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PostPosted: 04/04/17 7:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
22 wrote:
zvyn3 wrote:
22 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Shades wrote:


I mean, how are you not going to recognize the leading rebounder in the country?


Maybe I just missed their names, but I don't recall seeing Anna Strickland, Vicky McIntyre, Jillian Alleyn, or Artemis Spanou as All Americans the past four years. Were you insisting on their inclusion too?


How many of them also shot > 40% from 3 and avg. > 4 assists/gm?


Osahor didn't shoot > 40% from 3.


Correct - she shot 37.2% (126-184) for the full season... I inadvertently looked at her conference season-only #s, when she shot 40.6% (70-105).

The question still stands: did any of the others shoot 37% from 3 and avg. > 4 assists/gm (to go along w her 15.8 rpg)?


Who cares? First, the post asked "how can you overlook the rebound leader ". Other stats weren't part of it. The point is that rebound leaders get "overlooked" routinely. Second, unless you do a full comparison of the players' total performance, 37% from the arc and 4 apg isn't earning AA status for anyone. So the question may still stand, but it's stil lirrelevant. I'm not even bothering to look up other stats for the other players.


Well, first the original post asked if Osahor is better than DeShields, and if Osahor's making AA teams and Diamond's not reflected their abilities.

Then Shades posted "I would say Osahor was better at what she did than DeShields at what she did...." and that Osahor was a big part of UW's success.

And then Shades' post asked (somewhat rhetorically, I imagine) about recognizing the leading rebounder.

To the extent that you were only concerned with trying to shut down Shades' last comment, out of context from the rest of the post or the original post, I can see why you wouldn't care....

I thought the unique combination of Osahor's stats, which reflect her diverse skills and impact on games, was relevant to the OP's more interesting questions (as it probably was to the AA selectors), and so, that readers of the entire thread may care.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/04/17 9:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The point was pretty obvious since it only mentioned the previous four rebounding leaders. Is there some other reason why any of those four players would have been mentioned here? Maybe you can tell me because it certainly escapes me.

Now maybe you didn't know who those players were or that they led the country in rebounding in 2013-2016, but I'm confident Shades understood my post.

And cherry picking a couple of stat categories in which she marginally exceeded DeShields but where both had run of the mill performances doesn't really paint a complete picture of either player or their respective "impacts on games".


22



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PostPosted: 04/05/17 12:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
The point was pretty obvious since it only mentioned the previous four rebounding leaders. Is there some other reason why any of those four players would have been mentioned here? Maybe you can tell me because it certainly escapes me.

Now maybe you didn't know who those players were or that they led the country in rebounding in 2013-2016, but I'm confident Shades understood my post.

And cherry picking a couple of stat categories in which she marginally exceeded DeShields but where both had run of the mill performances doesn't really paint a complete picture of either player or their respective "impacts on games".


Yes, the point was obvious, and I'm confident I understood it, as well as Shades. Shades apparently didn't find it very interesting, given the lack of any response, and I only found it interesting for what it (and Shades) left out....

My point should have been pretty obvious -- that it is not run of the mill for a post, who also rebounds at such a high rate, to also shoot 3s and pass so well. The 2 stats I provided were not picked to compare to DeShields, but to the other 4 posts who led in rebounding (whom you so graciously remind us could only have been mentioned for such comparison).

That Osahor's 3pt% and apg exceeded DeShields' at their respective positions, while also grabbing 9rpg more (and scoring 1.6ppg fewer, though at a more efficient rate), provides enough of a picture to make an argument for Osahor being named AA over DeShields.

Of course no stats ever "really paint a complete picture," but if you watched enough UW games you would likely understand that Osahors 3pt% and apg were indicative of her ability to help spread the floor from the 5 position while also hurting teams up with her passes from the post, especially when double-teamed,... which of course contributed to Washington's highly effective offense and more successful season than TN.


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