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stever



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PostPosted: 03/03/17 4:53 pm    ::: Cooper-Dyke out @U$C Reply Reply with quote

http://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18815697/cynthia-cooper-dyke-resigns-usc-trojans-basketball-coach



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PostPosted: 03/03/17 6:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades-like, I want credit for calling this one ...

In fact, maybe we should award ourselves a Shades Gold Star when we get one right. (And a ClayK Miscalculation when we get one wrong ...)



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PRballer



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PostPosted: 03/03/17 7:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Crazy idea, would they ever call up Cheryl Miller again? How's she doing at Cal State LA? Shocked


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PostPosted: 03/03/17 8:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PRballer wrote:
Crazy idea, would they ever call up Cheryl Miller again? How's she doing at Cal State LA? Shocked


no.



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PostPosted: 03/03/17 8:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
PRballer wrote:
Crazy idea, would they ever call up Cheryl Miller again? How's she doing at Cal State LA? Shocked


no.


Not only no, but hell no. Unless that woman has cleaned up her act, she shouldn't even have the job she has.



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PostPosted: 03/03/17 11:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Shades-like, I want credit for calling this one ...

In fact, maybe we should award ourselves a Shades Gold Star when we get one right. (And a ClayK Miscalculation when we get one wrong ...)


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

I hope she finally hangs it up as a coach. She's the poster child for Sports Stars that Can't Teach It So Great. Can't blame her for trying, but....



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PRballer



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PostPosted: 03/04/17 1:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OK...so what's the speculation? Where will USC look?

Beth Burns,
Jody Wynn
Bonnie Hendrickson
Niele Ivey
??

They will need someone who can keep up high-level recruiting and they have some top-ranked kids coming in next year to mix with some decent pieces. This will be a really fascinating hire.


Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 03/04/17 7:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PRballer wrote:
OK...so what's the speculation? Where will USC look?

Beth Burns,
Jody Wynn
Bonnie Hendrickson
Niele Ivey
??

They will need someone who can keep up high-level recruiting and they have some top-ranked kids coming in next year to mix with some decent pieces. This will be a really fascinating hire.


I really don't see Niele leaving ND for USC. I don't see USC hiring an ND person either. I don't think that would go over very well with the alums. Of either school! Smile

I don't see her going that far away and I think that where ever she goes it would only be for a couple of years and then she would be back at ND. At least I hope that is the plan!



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Durantula



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PostPosted: 03/04/17 8:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
PRballer wrote:
OK...so what's the speculation? Where will USC look?

Beth Burns,
Jody Wynn
Bonnie Hendrickson
Niele Ivey
??

They will need someone who can keep up high-level recruiting and they have some top-ranked kids coming in next year to mix with some decent pieces. This will be a really fascinating hire.


I really don't see Niele leaving ND for USC. I don't see USC hiring an ND person either. I don't think that would go over very well with the alums. Of either school! Smile

I don't see her going that far away and I think that where ever she goes it would only be for a couple of years and then she would be back at ND. At least I hope that is the plan!


That's the risk of leaving, what if she takes a job at a rebuilding program and has a bad record for a few years and then McGraw retires. Are they really going to hire someone with that W/L record or hire someone with a better background? But the risk of not leaving is if the AD thinks head coaching experience is a pre-requisite to the job.

On USC I don't see them hiring the famous pro player again like Miller. Beth Burns is almost 60 and I'd think they go for a more up and coming coach. Don't forget she sued her prior school for millions of dollars when they fired her and I don't see how that helps her get another head coaching job that is better than the one she was recently fired from.


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PostPosted: 03/04/17 9:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Durantula wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
PRballer wrote:
OK...so what's the speculation? Where will USC look?

Beth Burns,
Jody Wynn
Bonnie Hendrickson
Niele Ivey
??

They will need someone who can keep up high-level recruiting and they have some top-ranked kids coming in next year to mix with some decent pieces. This will be a really fascinating hire.


I really don't see Niele leaving ND for USC. I don't see USC hiring an ND person either. I don't think that would go over very well with the alums. Of either school! Smile

I don't see her going that far away and I think that where ever she goes it would only be for a couple of years and then she would be back at ND. At least I hope that is the plan!


That's the risk of leaving, what if she takes a job at a rebuilding program and has a bad record for a few years and then McGraw retires. Are they really going to hire someone with that W/L record or hire someone with a better background? But the risk of not leaving is if the AD thinks head coaching experience is a pre-requisite to the job.

On USC I don't see them hiring the famous pro player again like Miller. Beth Burns is almost 60 and I'd think they go for a more up and coming coach. Don't forget she sued her prior school for millions of dollars when they fired her and I don't see how that helps her get another head coaching job that is better than the one she was recently fired from.


I hope that the plan for Niele is when Muffet retires, she's the coach. If the AD is wanting head coaching experence, when Muffet is 3-4 years away, Niele goes somewhere where the previous successful coach has moved up to a bigger school, gets it, and comes back. Maybe somewhere like Princeton when CB moves on.

Now, back to the next USC coach, because I don't want it to be Niele!



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Matt5762



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PostPosted: 03/04/17 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:


I hope that the plan for Niele is when Muffet retires, she's the coach. If the AD is wanting head coaching experence, when Muffet is 3-4 years away, Niele goes somewhere where the previous successful coach has moved up to a bigger school, gets it, and comes back. Maybe somewhere like Princeton when CB moves on.

Now, back to the next USC coach, because I don't want it to be Niele!


An interesting thought considering Banghart was a finalist the last time the USC job was open...


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PostPosted: 03/04/17 1:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SC could be a premier destination with the right coach. Why not someone like Charli Turner Thorne who does a lot with a little, rarely has the top recruits and now can actually sell a sexy destination unlike Tempe........


PRballer



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PostPosted: 03/04/17 3:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hoops9092 wrote:
SC could be a premier destination with the right coach. Why not someone like Charli Turner Thorne who does a lot with a little, rarely has the top recruits and now can actually sell a sexy destination unlike Tempe........


I love the idea there - what else is Charli gonna accomplish in Tempe? - but I feel like she puts her family first and wouldn't want to uproot her boys.


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PostPosted: 03/04/17 4:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Shades-like, I want credit for calling this one ...

In fact, maybe we should award ourselves a Shades Gold Star when we get one right. (And a ClayK Miscalculation when we get one wrong ...)


Dead. Laughing



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tfan



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PostPosted: 03/05/17 12:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Shades-like, I want credit for calling this one ...

In fact, maybe we should award ourselves a Shades Gold Star when we get one right. (And a ClayK Miscalculation when we get one wrong ...)


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

I hope she finally hangs it up as a coach. She's the poster child for Sports Stars that Can't Teach It So Great. Can't blame her for trying, but....


You are thinking of her with the Mercury (which was a team with zero talent) and now with USC. But she coached winning teams at 3 other colleges. Her in conference records were [64-26 .711] at Prairie View A&M, [25-11 .694] at University North Carolina Wilmington and [16-2 .889] at Texas Southern. But she did get hit with recruiting violations at Prairie View A&M that caused her to lose scholarships as a penalty, and two of those schools were short stops so you can't verify her recruiting ability. Still, the three other schools don't support the idea that she should stop trying and that she can't teach it. Judging from USC my concern would be can she recruit elite talent, or should she stay with HBCUs.


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PostPosted: 03/05/17 1:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not a fan of schools in the same conference poaching head coaches from each other.

I guess since I have a degree from there, I have some stake in this.

After some of the current head coach choices, I would like them to think about Shannon Perry. She's a former assistant there, she's from the area, and she has recruited both locally and nationally. Sure the current employer is a bit of an issue, but it can be worked around.
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PostPosted: 03/06/17 10:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Shades-like, I want credit for calling this one ...

In fact, maybe we should award ourselves a Shades Gold Star when we get one right. (And a ClayK Miscalculation when we get one wrong ...)


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

I hope she finally hangs it up as a coach. She's the poster child for Sports Stars that Can't Teach It So Great. Can't blame her for trying, but....


I had the same conversation about her yesterday. Coop could ball with the best of them. But coaching is not her game.



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PostPosted: 03/06/17 10:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wondering how this will impact her incoming recruits? I think she has 3 pretty good kids coming in.



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PostPosted: 03/06/17 11:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kailapea wrote:
Wondering how this will impact her incoming recruits? I think she has 3 pretty good kids coming in.


Heard the top kid coming in the 6'1 post player, doesn't have the grades.
patsweetpat



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PostPosted: 03/06/17 2:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kailapea wrote:
Wondering how this will impact her incoming recruits? I think she has 3 pretty good kids coming in.


If the new coach (whoever he or she ends up being) is classy, he/she will release the recruits from their LOIs and try to re-recruit them.


IM in OC



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PostPosted: 03/06/17 6:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

patsweetpat wrote:
Kailapea wrote:
Wondering how this will impact her incoming recruits? I think she has 3 pretty good kids coming in.


If the new coach (whoever he or she ends up being) is classy, he/she will release the recruits from their LOIs and try to re-recruit them.


I would think if the recruit wanted out that should happen. Not just an automatic release.

I will give you my pick who I would love to see, although I have no idea if he would leave his current job.

Russ Davis of Vanguard and Cal Swish/AAU.
He has coached 11 players who were drafted or played in the WNBA
He has coached 10 McDonald's All American players.
He is well respected, especially by the Pac12 coaches and by UConn.
He knows a ton of the So Cal, Central Cal and Arizona talents.
He runs great offensive sets.
He stresses accountability by the players, on and off the court.
He has won a National Championship. He was also named coach of the Year.
His Vanguard team have played, in the past few years, UConn, Stanford, UCLA, Cal, ASU, Maine and UCSB. They actually beat UCSB a few years ago.

Again I have no idea if he is interested or wants to leave.


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PostPosted: 03/06/17 7:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Does Davis have a college degree? Then again, Michael Cooper didn't either.


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PostPosted: 03/06/17 9:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Howee wrote:
I hope she finally hangs it up as a coach. She's the poster child for Sports Stars that Can't Teach It So Great. Can't blame her for trying, but....


You are thinking of her with the Mercury (which was a team with zero talent) and now with USC. But she coached winning teams at 3 other colleges. Her in conference records were [64-26 .711] at Prairie View A&M, [25-11 .694] at University North Carolina Wilmington and [16-2 .889] at Texas Southern. But she did get hit with recruiting violations at Prairie View A&M that caused her to lose scholarships as a penalty, and two of those schools were short stops so you can't verify her recruiting ability. Still, the three other schools don't support the idea that she should stop trying and that she can't teach it. Judging from USC my concern would be can she recruit elite talent, or should she stay with HBCUs.


Nah. All the ^^ above is just a lotta blah-blah about mediocrity. I mean, it's "okay" for lotsa folks, but Coop IS one of the all-time great players--her coaching doesn't match that, it's .... mediocre. Hope she finds a different niche in the game....I think she's pretty cool, just not a terrific coach. (or this thread wouldn't have been born)

I think USC should Think Big. Don't know if it'd be repeating history here, but....what about Tina? She's put in a few years as an assistant in TX. Is she ready?



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PostPosted: 03/06/17 9:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How is TT thinking big? At least CCD had head coaching experience.


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PostPosted: 03/06/17 10:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There are more than 280 non-P5 Div I WBB teams. That's a pretty big pool. There have to be at least a few excellent head coaches among that group who would see Southern Cal as a terrific opportunity.


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PostPosted: 03/06/17 10:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
How is TT thinking big? At least CCD had head coaching experience.


Most head coaches were assistants somewhere, sometime.



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PostPosted: 03/06/17 10:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
There are more than 280 non-P5 Div I WBB teams. That's a pretty big pool. There have to be at least a few excellent head coaches among that group who would see Southern Cal as a terrific opportunity.


Depends on who thinks they can establish/reestablish themselves in the LA recruiting area on a Pac-12 level, and who wants to move, and what kind of institutional support they think they'll get/retain, and if USC is offering a competitive/reasonable salary.

And then you have to assume that USC will conduct a full national search. Their last couple of attempts have seemed somewhat half-hearted, at least from my perspective (across the country, mind you).



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PostPosted: 03/07/17 12:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
There are more than 280 non-P5 Div I WBB teams. That's a pretty big pool. There have to be at least a few excellent head coaches among that group who would see Southern Cal as a terrific opportunity.


Depends on who thinks they can establish/reestablish themselves in the LA recruiting area on a Pac-12 level, and who wants to move, and what kind of institutional support they think they'll get/retain, and if USC is offering a competitive/reasonable salary.

And then you have to assume that USC will conduct a full national search. Their last couple of attempts have seemed somewhat half-hearted, at least from my perspective (across the country, mind you).


I didn't say everyone would be a good fit or want to leave their current job. Just that with 280 potential candidates, there have to be a few that are good coaches, good recruiters, and would jump at the opportunity. You only need one.

Now whether USC will do a good search is a bigger question. They haven't even done a genuine search for their last three football hires, and that's their bread and butter. They have been far too focused on USC connections rather than hiring the best coach recently. We'll see if Swann is any better than Haden.

USC has a great history including a couple titles. It's a shame how they have allowed their WBB program to deteriorate.


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PostPosted: 03/07/17 2:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Both Michael Cooper and Cynthia Cooper Dyke were considered good choices at the time. Cooper had NBA and WNBA experience as well as a couple of championships. His record for three years was actually not bad at all, but he took a nosedive in his fourth and was gone. Still, he had a better record than did CCD. CCD was a WNBA legend and had winning seasons in all her smaller conference colleges. She also said the right things to the people who were in charge. The fact that both were let go after four years with no contract extensions suggests that the AD is serious about womens basketball but hasn't found the right coaching formula.

After all this, I can't imagine how Tina Thompson could be considered a dream choice.


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PostPosted: 03/07/17 2:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If I were USC I think my first target would be Ryun Williams from Colorado State



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/07/17 2:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
Both Michael Cooper and Cynthia Cooper Dyke were considered good choices at the time. Cooper had NBA and WNBA experience as well as a couple of championships. His record for three years was actually not bad at all, but he took a nosedive in his fourth and was gone. Still, he had a better record than did CCD. CCD was a WNBA legend and had winning seasons in all her smaller conference colleges. She also said the right things to the people who were in charge. The fact that both were let go after four years with no contract extensions suggests that the AD is serious about womens basketball but hasn't found the right coaching formula.

After all this, I can't imagine how Tina Thompson could be considered a dream choice.


She got hired because she starred on USC's two title teams. That's all that mattered. Her coaching record wasn't miserable, but it certainly wasn't great. She was coming off a 20-13 record at Texas Southern. If she wasn't a USC legend, if she had, let's say, had the identical resume but with Iowa as her college instead of USC, she never would have gotten a sniff. If USC limits it's search to someone "from the family" again, they'll fail again.

I don't know the California mid-majors very well, but Clay does. Are there any stellar young coaches at any of the non-PAC California colleges? That would be where I'd start looking if I was Lynn Swann.


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PostPosted: 03/07/17 2:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They barely got by USC at Galen this season, but I'd place the first call to Vic Schaefer. He signed a fairly large contract extension so it might be window dressing but I'd still reach out. I think he has the personality that would do exceptionally well in Southern California.


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PostPosted: 03/07/17 2:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
They barely got by USC at Galen this season, but I'd place the first call to Vic Schaefer. He signed a fairly large contract extension so it might be window dressing but I'd still reach out. I think he has the personality that would do exceptionally well in Southern California.


Schaefer's probably not gettable. Johnnie Harris, their associate head coach, could be interesting.



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PostPosted: 03/07/17 2:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
If USC limits it's search to someone "from the family" again, they'll fail again.


Yep, hiring alumni is bad practice for a major conference school.



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PostPosted: 03/07/17 2:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CCD's only season at Wilmington had her winning the conference. She always kept her teams competitive at the top of their conferences and Prairie View was an unqualified success. I agree that her name got her the USC job but she definitely had mid-major success as a head coach. It certainly made as much sense as hiring an assistant coach with no head coaching experience.


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PostPosted: 03/07/17 2:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
It certainly made as much sense as hiring an assistant coach with no head coaching experience.


If you're looking for national championships, the track record of first time head coaches is much better than hires from mid-majors.



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PostPosted: 03/07/17 2:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
CCD's only season at Wilmington had her winning the conference. She always kept her teams competitive at the top of their conferences and Prairie View was an unqualified success. I agree that her name got her the USC job but she definitely had mid-major success as a head coach. It certainly made as much sense as hiring an assistant coach with no head coaching experience.


Prairie View lost scholarships because of CCD's violations, so "an unqualified success" might be stretching it.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/womensbasketball/2008-01-08-prairie-view-violations_N.htm

Michael Cooper was a pretty good coach when he had Lisa Leslie and the other Sparks' stars -- then again, most of us on this board would probably do pretty well with that roster too. Cooper was a disaster in the NBA, didn't make it at USC and is average in Atlanta.

USC was going for the glitz rather than substance, as Mike Garrett, who I believe hired both, was not that interested in women's basketball. Tina Thompson may turn out to be a good coach, but given the quality of coaching in the league, a proven commodity would be a wiser choice.

A mid-major winner, such as Kelly Graves or J. R. Payne, with West Coast connections, would seem to be the best bet, but there are no obvious candidates. That doesn't mean there isn't talent out there, but no one jumps out, at least to me. My best bet would be Mark Trakh, who USC fired long ago, but has brought New Mexico State out of nowhere to an undefeated conference season and a ticket to the Big Polka.



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LitePal



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PostPosted: 03/07/17 3:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Right now, the two hottest coaches in the Pac are guys who came from Gonzaga and George Fox. Then again, JR Payne and Lynn Roberts have the same pedigree, so who knows.

Nikki Caldwell did great at UCLA but was exposed at LSU and I think Neighbors might be the same.

As for a national championship, does anyone outside of UConn think it's a realistic possibility for the next few years?


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PostPosted: 03/07/17 4:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Michael Cooper was a pretty good coach when he had Lisa Leslie and the other Sparks' stars -- then again, most of us on this board would probably do pretty well with that roster too."

How did Henry Bibby do with that roster?


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PostPosted: 03/07/17 8:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And wasn't there an abuse issue with one of her assistants at Wilmington? Trouble seems to follow her wherever she goes, and she has never struck me as having a personality that works well with college-age players.

Thompson I don't think is ready yet, and I agree that hiring within the alumni network is not a good plan; if nothing else, it makes it abundantly clear to outsiders that they aren't welcome.



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PostPosted: 03/07/17 8:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
LitePal wrote:
It certainly made as much sense as hiring an assistant coach with no head coaching experience.


If you're looking for national championships, the track record of first time head coaches is much better than hires from mid-majors.


nm


IM in OC



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PostPosted: 03/07/17 8:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
CCD's only season at Wilmington had her winning the conference. She always kept her teams competitive at the top of their conferences and Prairie View was an unqualified success. I agree that her name got her the USC job but she definitely had mid-major success as a head coach. It certainly made as much sense as hiring an assistant coach with no head coaching experience.



She also had this incident at UNC-W

http://www.starnewsonline.com/news/20100921/uncw-womens-basketball-coach-apologizes-after-player-punishment-goes-too-far


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PostPosted: 03/07/17 8:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Similar to Sheryl Swoopes, I think CCD is the type of player who doesn't understand that what worked for her doesn't necessarily work for others. The aren't teachers and have little understanding of the players they recruited. I don't know what her transfer record was like elsewhere, but it was terrible at USC.

CCD did not dismiss that assistant coach and yes, that was completely inexcusable. But the Trojan Powers That Be overlooked it.


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PostPosted: 03/09/17 1:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here's a dark horse candidate, Laura Beeman who just completed year 5 at Hawaii. Got to the Big Dance last year but had a rough season which just ended a few hours ago in the Big West Tourney quarterfinals. She would be a stronger candidate had she demonstrated better recruiting for the Wahine. It's puzzling because she was head coach for 16 years at Mt. SAC (.780), California JC, and you would think she built a great network by now. Worked under Michael Cooper with the Sparks and had two good seasons under him at USC. She left for Hawaii a year before Cooper's disastrous last season. Hawaii fans have often wondered when the PAC-12 would come calling for her.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 11:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't know that working for Michael Cooper is much of a positive ...



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/09/17 12:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I don't know that working for Michael Cooper is much of a positive ...


This is the school that hired Sarkisian to replace fired Kiffin and Helton to replace fired Sarkisian, so being a buddy and staff member of a fired head coach is evidently not disqualifying at USC. Indeed, evidently it's actually helpful because it means you're a "club member."


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