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Wiggins: WNBA's 'harmful' culture of bullying, jealousy
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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 9:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CW is clearly struggling adapting to life after pro sport. Hopefully she will be connected with some help as a result of this outburst, and it will help her. That would be a good outcome for her.

Another good thing to come of his has been the responses from the players. I've been very impressed with many of them - particularly those from some of the younger players. I know some posters who have been W fans from the start feel like things aren't as passionate now as in the old days, but some of the things I have read this week definitely let me know that the care factor is still there.
So the effect of CW's comments on the players I think will prove to be a positive one overall. I don't feel like the WNBA had a culture problem anyway. I do think that an already good culture will be further lifted by this.

Really the only disappointing thing for me in all of this was the tardy and weak response by the league itself.
The WNBA has done a tremendous job IMO of being a leader in the area of equality and inclusiveness. So what a great opportunity they just missed, to stand tall, point to their impressive history, and loudly reinforce everything that they have to be proud of. It's a shame that they blew it so badly.



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WfanFrJmp



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 10:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
CW is clearly struggling adapting to life after pro sport. Hopefully she will be connected with some help as a result of this outburst, and it will help her. That would be a good outcome for her.

Another good thing to come of his has been the responses from the players. I've been very impressed with many of them - particularly those from some of the younger players. I know some posters who have been W fans from the start feel like things aren't as passionate now as in the old days, but some of the things I have read this week definitely let me know that the care factor is still there.
So the effect of CW's comments on the players I think will prove to be a positive one overall. I don't feel like the WNBA had a culture problem anyway. I do think that an already good culture will be further lifted by this.

Really the only disappointing thing for me in all of this was the tardy and weak response by the league itself.
The WNBA has done a tremendous job IMO of being a leader in the area of equality and inclusiveness. So what a great opportunity they just missed, to stand tall, point to their impressive history, and loudly reinforce everything that they have to be proud of. It's a shame that they blew it so badly.


Great points! Also, we can't overlook that fact that all of this has come on the heels of the women's sports "Equality" campaign: http://www.espn.com/espnw/video/18597659/equality


Howee



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 11:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I took issue with the "nobody cares about the WNBA" even when Ice said it in her original podcast. I cared enough to go to DC. I cared enough to cheer so loudly with my friend that Candice herself acknowledged us when the game was over.

SHE herself cared enough to shoot free throws for 90 minutes in an empty MSG after missing 3 consecutive late-game free throws in a close defeat in 2015. She cared enough to be the most aggressive defender on the team. She cared enough to cheer from the sidelines like every game meant everything to her. None of this makes any sense to me.


Interesting observations from a fan who was 'there'. Again, the (apparent) contradictions can begin to make sense if you consider the strong possibility of some mental/emotional pathology here.

Egos can be such delicate things. To be fiercely driven, to hate losing, to FEEL competition strongly....these are all things that make any great athlete outstanding. But those same emotions, especially in a reversal of (expected) fortunes, can be a double-edged blade. Candice was flamboyant, if nothing....it would be her style to desire to take the whole ship down with her.

This will, fortunately, PASS. I hope we're all too far along in our social progress to let the remarks of one player undermine an entire league of dedicated professionals.

(I'm wondering if we could get Trump's hacks to pronounce this as "Fake News"?? Razz )



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kojthiabkuv



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 11:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WfanFrJmp wrote:
Diggins' tweeted some things that folks have attempted to attribute to the situation. Who knows though? Interestingly enough, there has been little response from folks who have actually played with her...

CP's comments on the saga: http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=18757113 (start at ~33mins).

Geno with classic "Geno" comments: http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-womens-basketball/hc-jacobs-column-geno-wiggins-0225-20170224-column.html


Geno didn't hold back!! Lol


Mysticsfan12



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PostPosted: 02/25/17 5:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
scullyfu wrote:
and her 98% of the league being gay also seems high.


Yeah, Sue Wicks and some former ABL player both estimated it as "more than 50%", but 98% seems way too high. That would mean 3 players are straight.

I can think of at least 3 straight players on each team off the top of my head, although I never even really thought about it till CW threw out that nonsense. It wouldn't matter if the league were 98% gay, it's just that Wiggins is CLEARLY lying and needs to be called out for it.



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Mysticsfan12



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PostPosted: 02/25/17 5:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One of the arguably almost as ridiculous parts was when she appeared to be praising her looks. I mean, what kind of person publicly calls themselves hawt and then says everyone is jealous of them for it? Can anyone say narcissist? Laughing Rolling Eyes

Also! Dev. Peters. Shirt. Cool



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UofDel_Alum



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PostPosted: 02/25/17 8:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It is very obvious that Wiggins has done a terrible disservice to the WNBA! Preference of partner has no place in discussion on what is right or wrong with the WNBA.

I became a fan of Women's basketball because of the athletic ability of the women that play the game. Elena Delle Donne was the person that made me a fan of the game forever.


Carol Anne



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PostPosted: 02/25/17 9:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Doug Feinberg covers women's basketball for the AP. A couple of his tweets are interesting for what they say about WNBA media coverage (and lack thereof). These are from Tuesday (sorry I'm late with these).

@DougFeinberg
It's interesting to me how many people pick up a story having never covered a league just for the shock value. #doyourhomework.

@DougFeinberg
This isn't the first time that the bandwagon is jumped on when a "hot-button" topic arises in the league. People jump on then jump off.


hyperetic



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PostPosted: 02/25/17 11:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Carol Anne wrote:
Doug Feinberg covers women's basketball for the AP. A couple of his tweets are interesting for what they say about WNBA media coverage (and lack thereof). These are from Tuesday (sorry I'm late with these).

@DougFeinberg
It's interesting to me how many people pick up a story having never covered a league just for the shock value. #doyourhomework.

@DougFeinberg
This isn't the first time that the bandwagon is jumped on when a "hot-button" topic arises in the league. People jump on then jump off.


I totally agree with Mr. Feinberg.
stever



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PostPosted: 02/26/17 11:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NPR interviewed Mechelle Voepel this morning:

<iframe src="https://www.npr.org/player/embed/517305319/517305320" width="100%" height="290" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" title="NPR embedded audio player"></iframe>



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Scarab



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PostPosted: 02/28/17 11:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mystics [Mike Thibault] rebuke Candice Wiggins comments on bullying and sexuality in WNBA



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PostPosted: 02/28/17 2:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have no doubt that most players had contempt for her due to the fact that she's a lot prettier than most of them, and that men find her appealing. Jealousy always festers among the less attractive ones.

The league will move on, but if said bullying was happening then it's definitely going to be under the microscope now.

I wonder what the more attractive players, such as Swin Cash, Jennifer Lacy, Skylar Diggins and Leilani Mitchell think about Wiggins' comments. Have any of them weighed in on this?


pilight



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PostPosted: 02/28/17 2:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
I have no doubt that most players had contempt for her due to the fact that she's a lot prettier than most of them, and that men find her appealing. Jealousy always festers among the less attractive ones.


If 98% of them are lesbians, why would they be jealous of the attention she gets from men?



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PostPosted: 02/28/17 3:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
I have no doubt that most players had contempt for her due to the fact that she's a lot prettier than most of them, and that men find her appealing. Jealousy always festers among the less attractive ones.

The league will move on, but if said bullying was happening then it's definitely going to be under the microscope now.

I wonder what the more attractive players, such as Swin Cash, Jennifer Lacy, Skylar Diggins and Leilani Mitchell think about Wiggins' comments. Have any of them weighed in on this?


It's really distressing to read a comment here based on distinguishing the allegedly "more attractive" players from the allegedly "less attractive" players. This is wrong in so many different ways that I wouldn't know where to begin.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/28/17 10:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
If 98% of them are lesbians, why would they be jealous of the attention she gets from men?


Thank you.




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PostPosted: 02/28/17 11:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder. Your mileage may vary quite a bit. So does everyone's. And I know this surprises a lot of people, but women don't completely judge women on appearance.

I suspect that if anyone who dealt with Wiggins in the league had contempt for her, it wasn't because they were jealous of her looks.



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PostPosted: 03/01/17 7:59 am    ::: Wiggins isn't that pretty Reply Reply with quote

Candice Wiggins isn't that pretty. She has many of the individual pieces our culture approves of: Long hair, light skin, thin, wears make-up, traditionally feminine clothing. But when you put it all together it doesn't work that well. Her features just aren't those of a great beauty. Diggins pulls that off...the whole traditionally pretty-girl thing. Wiggins doesn't.

I don't think a ton about who is pretty, but Brunson's pretty smiling face would have knocked me out at any point in my life. The WNBA has many attractive players, though.

Jealous of Candice for being pretty? I can't see it. There are prettier women than Candice all over the place.



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stever



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PostPosted: 03/01/17 10:35 am    ::: Wiggins drops ’98 percent’ bomb on WNBA Reply Reply with quote

http://spokesman-recorder.com/2017/02/28/wiggins-drops-98-percent-bomb-wnba/

Quote:
“She [Wiggins] was very open-minded, a strong lady,” recalled “Ethan” (not his real name — he agreed to speak to us only on condition that his real identity would not be revealed). Ethan was a former Lynx employee who was there when Wiggins was there. “We had so many cliques on our team. I don’t think she fit into one of those cliques,” he said.

But Ethan quickly affirmed a common perception of Wiggins: “She was one of those players who could easily get on your nerves, male or female.”



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 03/01/17 12:07 pm    ::: Re: Wiggins drops ’98 percent’ bomb on WNBA Reply Reply with quote

stever wrote:
http://spokesman-recorder.com/2017/02/28/wiggins-drops-98-percent-bomb-wnba/

Quote:
“She [Wiggins] was very open-minded, a strong lady,” recalled “Ethan” (not his real name — he agreed to speak to us only on condition that his real identity would not be revealed). Ethan was a former Lynx employee who was there when Wiggins was there. “We had so many cliques on our team. I don’t think she fit into one of those cliques,” he said.

But Ethan quickly affirmed a common perception of Wiggins: “She was one of those players who could easily get on your nerves, male or female.”

So Wiggins was a person that would get on people's nerves regardless of gender. Hmnm, is that a description of an a$$hole?



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PostPosted: 03/01/17 12:09 pm    ::: Re: Wiggins isn't that pretty Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
Candice Wiggins isn't that pretty. She has many of the individual pieces our culture approves of: Long hair, light skin, thin, wears make-up, traditionally feminine clothing. But when you put it all together it doesn't work that well. Her features just aren't those of a great beauty. Diggins pulls that off...the whole traditionally pretty-girl thing. Wiggins doesn't.

I don't think a ton about who is pretty, but Brunson's pretty smiling face would have knocked me out at any point in my life. The WNBA has many attractive players, though.

Jealous of Candice for being pretty? I can't see it. There are prettier women than Candice all over the place.


Really, so thats why you talk about the long hair, light skin, thin etc. Oh but say thats others yeah right you brought it up. And then say there are others prettier.

There are some real hypocrites on this board and people acting like women and gay women don't judge. Women can be some of the biggest Biatches and along with some mysoginistic pig men are brutal to one another as those men are to women. Then just as Trump does deny it and come of as self righteous.


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PostPosted: 03/01/17 12:16 pm    ::: Re: Wiggins drops ’98 percent’ bomb on WNBA Reply Reply with quote

stever wrote:
http://spokesman-recorder.com/2017/02/28/wiggins-drops-98-percent-bomb-wnba/

Quote:
“She [Wiggins] was very open-minded, a strong lady,” recalled “Ethan” (not his real name — he agreed to speak to us only on condition that his real identity would not be revealed). Ethan was a former Lynx employee who was there when Wiggins was there. “We had so many cliques on our team. I don’t think she fit into one of those cliques,” he said.

But Ethan quickly affirmed a common perception of Wiggins: “She was one of those players who could easily get on your nerves, male or female.”


Earlier in this thread:

Quote:
WomensBasketball247
‏@womensbball247
The B word will float around during games but i'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with your sexuality and more to do with just being a B...


Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 03/01/17 12:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One can disagree with her comments i.e. numbers etc. but calling her names and acting like people don't bully is just as bad as the things some are saying about her.


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PostPosted: 03/01/17 12:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
One can disagree with her comments i.e. numbers etc. but calling her names and acting like people don't bully is just as bad as the things some are saying about her.


You will find if you have not already that gossipers, slanderers, or character assassinators (all three terms are equivalent in this context) are the ugliest, rudest, most vulgar people in this life.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 03/01/17 12:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I took issue with the "nobody cares about the WNBA" even when Ice said it in her original podcast. I cared enough to go to DC. I cared enough to cheer so loudly with my friend that Candice herself acknowledged us when the game was over.

SHE herself cared enough to shoot free throws for 90 minutes in an empty MSG after missing 3 consecutive late-game free throws in a close defeat in 2015. She cared enough to be the most aggressive defender on the team. She cared enough to cheer from the sidelines like every game meant everything to her. None of this makes any sense to me.


Interesting observations from a fan who was 'there'. Again, the (apparent) contradictions can begin to make sense if you consider the strong possibility of some mental/emotional pathology here.

Egos can be such delicate things. To be fiercely driven, to hate losing, to FEEL competition strongly....these are all things that make any great athlete outstanding. But those same emotions, especially in a reversal of (expected) fortunes, can be a double-edged blade. Candice was flamboyant, if nothing....it would be her style to desire to take the whole ship down with her.

This will, fortunately, PASS. I hope we're all too far along in our social progress to let the remarks of one player undermine an entire league of dedicated professionals.

(I'm wondering if we could get Trump's hacks to pronounce this as "Fake News"?? Razz )


I really think that's the crux of it. In 2015 and 2016, Wiggins languished out there as an unsigned free agent. She probably didn't get much interest or the kind of money she wanted. Her whole career was a disappointment given her college success and early performance in the WNBA. A lot of it wasn't her fault -- injuries took their toll. Nonetheless, she must have felt the sting of rejection. Throw in the fact that there was always a "look at me" aspect to Candice's personality. I don't really care about fashion, but the way she dresses always struck me as being garishly flamboyant. I can only describe it as vintage hooker. Then, there's the hardnosed maybe dirty play on defense and the rumored trash-talking. It's not hard to see why she was unpopular. I say this as someone who was a big fan of hers. In 2008, I switched sides and rooted for Stanford over UConn even though I was a Big East fan. I just liked Candice that much. And even though she was ineffective for most of that final season in New York, Wiggins had some well-timed good games -- including the two playoff Game 3s. I think most Liberty fans wanted her back last year. So, this whole episode has been a major disappointment. At the same time, I can't say there weren't signs along the way that Candice was a bit of a drama queen. I even remember her self-reported reaction to experiencing cold and snow for the first time while playing in Europe. As Candice is scraping snow off her car, she's freaking-out and thinking "How can people live this way?" It just sounds like she's prone to overreaction.



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PostPosted: 03/01/17 6:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
I have no doubt that most players had contempt for her due to the fact that she's a lot prettier than most of them, and that men find her appealing.


I have a lot of doubt about that.


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PostPosted: 03/02/17 7:57 am    ::: Re: Wiggins isn't that pretty Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
Candice Wiggins isn't that pretty. She has many of the individual pieces our culture approves of: Long hair, light skin, thin, wears make-up, traditionally feminine clothing. But when you put it all together it doesn't work that well. Her features just aren't those of a great beauty. Diggins pulls that off...the whole traditionally pretty-girl thing. Wiggins doesn't.

I don't think a ton about who is pretty, but Brunson's pretty smiling face would have knocked me out at any point in my life. The WNBA has many attractive players, though.

Jealous of Candice for being pretty? I can't see it. There are prettier women than Candice all over the place.


SMH at you calling Candice Wiggins Light Skin.That's something a ignorant non-black person or insecure black person would say.And then complement Brunson on her smile without pointing out that she has a similar skin tone to Candice.






If Wiggins is Light skin,what is Brunson ?


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PostPosted: 03/02/17 11:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I recently read a powerful new book by Lori L. Tharps, SAME FAMILY, DIFFERENT COLORS: Confronting Colorism in America's Diverse Families. It's about the politics of skin color in African American, Latino, Asian, and interracial families. I recommend it to anyone interested in this issue.



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PostPosted: 03/02/17 12:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
I recently read a powerful new book by Lori L. Tharps, SAME FAMILY, DIFFERENT COLORS: Confronting Colorism in America's Diverse Families. It's about the politics of skin color in African American, Latino, Asian, and interracial families. I recommend it to anyone interested in this issue.

I read that book as well. Highly recommended.



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PostPosted: 03/02/17 12:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm much encouraged by the responses I'm hearing from current players around the league, as I saw at least one other poster here express. Particularly among young players I've been impressed with the overall eloquence and thought put into their statements.

I've also been impressed overall with the tenor of the conversation here. Some posts have been iffy, but the bulk of the conversation has been thoughtful and even compassionate for the mental health of CW (even as she's rightfully called to task for her blanket statements).

I kind of feel like since the initial inception of the WNBA there have been waves of fans, either coming in with particular college classes or groups of players, or with the success of particular teams. I had been in a sort of ebb, not only as the Storm transitioned, but also because it just coincided with some life transitions, so I haven't been as dialed in to the pulse of the WNBA, its teams, fans and players, but this whole dust up has had the effect of buoying my optimism for the future.



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PostPosted: 03/03/17 9:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Okay, okay calm down.

My post regarding Wiggin's beauty or lack thereof was catty. Candice pissed-off this lesbian.

HOWEVER, I was not talking about Black standards of beauty. I can see why you might think that, but if you look at ALL the things I mention rather than just skin tone and hair you can see that I was describing an overall picture of what culture sees as feminine that isn't race-specific. I can totally see why some of you read it as race-specific, but really it was more me-specific. I grew up in the 60s when long-straight hair was THE feminine ideal. And I am an English major and, as such, I am aware of the historical idea of women having to keep their skin pale and avoid the sun. And, yes, I am aware that there is some of that in the Black community as well. I mean, Toni Morrison's "The Bluest Eye" is my favorite book, so sure I know that those same weird beauty standards mess with Black people. But I was addressing an overall, non-race-specific beauty standard that has been around way longer than I have been around and that affects everyone.

So call me out for being snippy and call me out for going off on a bit of a tangent about Brunson and call me out for posting on Nyquil (flu got me) but please don't think I was talking about the Black experience. I just wasn't.

BTW, looking back at the post I made, I found it a bit hilarious that I was basically trying to say "Stupid boys ideas of what is pretty" then lapsed into "CANDICE U AREN'T ALL THAT" and finished up with "Ooooo I have a crush on Brunson." Yeah that sounds like me on medication, pretty much.



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PostPosted: 03/04/17 10:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

i just hope the players dont get stuck answering wiggins questions all summer.


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PostPosted: 03/05/17 12:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
I have been following this story from the beginning. I do have one question to ask. Where is Skylar? I thought her and Candice were best buddies. I have not heard one statement from her yet.


FWIW, Wiggins made a taped appearance on Skylar's "Little Ballers" show



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PostPosted: 03/05/17 11:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ChicagoAnnie wrote:
i just hope the players dont get stuck answering wiggins questions all summer.


Depends when the book drops.


pilight



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PostPosted: 03/05/17 11:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

miller40 wrote:
ChicagoAnnie wrote:
i just hope the players dont get stuck answering wiggins questions all summer.


Depends when the book drops.


Any publicist worth his salt would drop it during the season. They want WNBA players answering questions about it all summer, it's free publicity.



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PostPosted: 03/05/17 6:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jap wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
One can disagree with her comments i.e. numbers etc. but calling her names and acting like people don't bully is just as bad as the things some are saying about her.


You will find if you have not already that gossipers, slanderers, or character assassinators (all three terms are equivalent in this context) are the ugliest, rudest, most vulgar people in this life.


I've seen a lot of those on this board.


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PostPosted: 03/07/17 6:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Washington Mystics weighs in on comments by Wiggins;


Mystics rebuke Candice Wiggins comments on bullying and sexuality in WNBA


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PostPosted: 03/09/17 9:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

UofDel_Alum wrote:
Washington Mystics weighs in on comments by Wiggins;


Mystics rebuke Candice Wiggins comments on bullying and sexuality in WNBA


Scroll up...this was posted earlier in the thread on Feb. 28 fyi. Smile



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PostPosted: 04/07/17 12:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
I have been following this story from the beginning. I do have one question to ask. Where is Skylar? I thought her and Candice were best buddies. I have not heard one statement from her yet.


http://www.sportingnews.com/au/ncaa-basketball/news/skylar-diggins-uconn-womens-basketball-maya-moore-tina-charles-geno-auriemma-notre-dame/t1zz9y1w5ucp1t93uj78txu19

Quote:
SD: What did you make of Candice Wiggins’ comments saying that she was bullied in the WNBA for being heterosexual? Did you have any similar experiences?

SN: You’re trying to stir the pot!


Not sure why SD and SN are reversed in the article



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PostPosted: 04/07/17 9:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Completely unsubstantiated rumor from SoCal, so I'm looking for anyone who knows for sure: Candice had a girlfriend last year.

I'm hoping someone can say it's categorically untrue, for though I really dislike what she did, this kind of story going round just makes it all seem worse.



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PostPosted: 04/08/17 4:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Completely unsubstantiated rumor from SoCal, so I'm looking for anyone who knows for sure: Candice had a girlfriend last year.

I'm hoping someone can say it's categorically untrue, for though I really dislike what she did, this kind of story going round just makes it all seem worse.


Part of me wants it to be true so we can all point and laugh at her hypocrisy.

Part of me thinks she'd turn around and talk about being "forced" into the homosexual lifestyle, with all the predatory implications thereof, and then we get a whole new level of WTFery.



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