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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7842 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 03/06/17 10:06 pm ::: |
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LitePal wrote: |
How is TT thinking big? At least CCD had head coaching experience. |
Most head coaches were assistants somewhere, sometime.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18030 Location: Queens
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Posted: 03/06/17 10:25 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
There are more than 280 non-P5 Div I WBB teams. That's a pretty big pool. There have to be at least a few excellent head coaches among that group who would see Southern Cal as a terrific opportunity. |
Depends on who thinks they can establish/reestablish themselves in the LA recruiting area on a Pac-12 level, and who wants to move, and what kind of institutional support they think they'll get/retain, and if USC is offering a competitive/reasonable salary.
And then you have to assume that USC will conduct a full national search. Their last couple of attempts have seemed somewhat half-hearted, at least from my perspective (across the country, mind you).
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 03/07/17 12:51 pm ::: |
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Queenie wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
There are more than 280 non-P5 Div I WBB teams. That's a pretty big pool. There have to be at least a few excellent head coaches among that group who would see Southern Cal as a terrific opportunity. |
Depends on who thinks they can establish/reestablish themselves in the LA recruiting area on a Pac-12 level, and who wants to move, and what kind of institutional support they think they'll get/retain, and if USC is offering a competitive/reasonable salary.
And then you have to assume that USC will conduct a full national search. Their last couple of attempts have seemed somewhat half-hearted, at least from my perspective (across the country, mind you). |
I didn't say everyone would be a good fit or want to leave their current job. Just that with 280 potential candidates, there have to be a few that are good coaches, good recruiters, and would jump at the opportunity. You only need one.
Now whether USC will do a good search is a bigger question. They haven't even done a genuine search for their last three football hires, and that's their bread and butter. They have been far too focused on USC connections rather than hiring the best coach recently. We'll see if Swann is any better than Haden.
USC has a great history including a couple titles. It's a shame how they have allowed their WBB program to deteriorate.
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LitePal
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 613
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Posted: 03/07/17 2:08 pm ::: |
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Both Michael Cooper and Cynthia Cooper Dyke were considered good choices at the time. Cooper had NBA and WNBA experience as well as a couple of championships. His record for three years was actually not bad at all, but he took a nosedive in his fourth and was gone. Still, he had a better record than did CCD. CCD was a WNBA legend and had winning seasons in all her smaller conference colleges. She also said the right things to the people who were in charge. The fact that both were let go after four years with no contract extensions suggests that the AD is serious about womens basketball but hasn't found the right coaching formula.
After all this, I can't imagine how Tina Thompson could be considered a dream choice.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66912 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 03/07/17 2:23 pm ::: |
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If I were USC I think my first target would be Ryun Williams from Colorado State
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 03/07/17 2:35 pm ::: |
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LitePal wrote: |
Both Michael Cooper and Cynthia Cooper Dyke were considered good choices at the time. Cooper had NBA and WNBA experience as well as a couple of championships. His record for three years was actually not bad at all, but he took a nosedive in his fourth and was gone. Still, he had a better record than did CCD. CCD was a WNBA legend and had winning seasons in all her smaller conference colleges. She also said the right things to the people who were in charge. The fact that both were let go after four years with no contract extensions suggests that the AD is serious about womens basketball but hasn't found the right coaching formula.
After all this, I can't imagine how Tina Thompson could be considered a dream choice. |
She got hired because she starred on USC's two title teams. That's all that mattered. Her coaching record wasn't miserable, but it certainly wasn't great. She was coming off a 20-13 record at Texas Southern. If she wasn't a USC legend, if she had, let's say, had the identical resume but with Iowa as her college instead of USC, she never would have gotten a sniff. If USC limits it's search to someone "from the family" again, they'll fail again.
I don't know the California mid-majors very well, but Clay does. Are there any stellar young coaches at any of the non-PAC California colleges? That would be where I'd start looking if I was Lynn Swann.
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LitePal
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 613
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Posted: 03/07/17 2:40 pm ::: |
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They barely got by USC at Galen this season, but I'd place the first call to Vic Schaefer. He signed a fairly large contract extension so it might be window dressing but I'd still reach out. I think he has the personality that would do exceptionally well in Southern California.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66912 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 03/07/17 2:45 pm ::: |
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LitePal wrote: |
They barely got by USC at Galen this season, but I'd place the first call to Vic Schaefer. He signed a fairly large contract extension so it might be window dressing but I'd still reach out. I think he has the personality that would do exceptionally well in Southern California. |
Schaefer's probably not gettable. Johnnie Harris, their associate head coach, could be interesting.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66912 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 03/07/17 2:47 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
If USC limits it's search to someone "from the family" again, they'll fail again. |
Yep, hiring alumni is bad practice for a major conference school.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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LitePal
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 613
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Posted: 03/07/17 2:48 pm ::: |
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CCD's only season at Wilmington had her winning the conference. She always kept her teams competitive at the top of their conferences and Prairie View was an unqualified success. I agree that her name got her the USC job but she definitely had mid-major success as a head coach. It certainly made as much sense as hiring an assistant coach with no head coaching experience.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66912 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 03/07/17 2:51 pm ::: |
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LitePal wrote: |
It certainly made as much sense as hiring an assistant coach with no head coaching experience. |
If you're looking for national championships, the track record of first time head coaches is much better than hires from mid-majors.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11148
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Posted: 03/07/17 2:56 pm ::: |
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LitePal wrote: |
CCD's only season at Wilmington had her winning the conference. She always kept her teams competitive at the top of their conferences and Prairie View was an unqualified success. I agree that her name got her the USC job but she definitely had mid-major success as a head coach. It certainly made as much sense as hiring an assistant coach with no head coaching experience. |
Prairie View lost scholarships because of CCD's violations, so "an unqualified success" might be stretching it.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/womensbasketball/2008-01-08-prairie-view-violations_N.htm
Michael Cooper was a pretty good coach when he had Lisa Leslie and the other Sparks' stars -- then again, most of us on this board would probably do pretty well with that roster too. Cooper was a disaster in the NBA, didn't make it at USC and is average in Atlanta.
USC was going for the glitz rather than substance, as Mike Garrett, who I believe hired both, was not that interested in women's basketball. Tina Thompson may turn out to be a good coach, but given the quality of coaching in the league, a proven commodity would be a wiser choice.
A mid-major winner, such as Kelly Graves or J. R. Payne, with West Coast connections, would seem to be the best bet, but there are no obvious candidates. That doesn't mean there isn't talent out there, but no one jumps out, at least to me. My best bet would be Mark Trakh, who USC fired long ago, but has brought New Mexico State out of nowhere to an undefeated conference season and a ticket to the Big Polka.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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LitePal
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 613
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Posted: 03/07/17 3:04 pm ::: |
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Right now, the two hottest coaches in the Pac are guys who came from Gonzaga and George Fox. Then again, JR Payne and Lynn Roberts have the same pedigree, so who knows.
Nikki Caldwell did great at UCLA but was exposed at LSU and I think Neighbors might be the same.
As for a national championship, does anyone outside of UConn think it's a realistic possibility for the next few years?
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LitePal
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 613
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Posted: 03/07/17 4:43 pm ::: |
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"Michael Cooper was a pretty good coach when he had Lisa Leslie and the other Sparks' stars -- then again, most of us on this board would probably do pretty well with that roster too."
How did Henry Bibby do with that roster?
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18030 Location: Queens
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Posted: 03/07/17 8:06 pm ::: |
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And wasn't there an abuse issue with one of her assistants at Wilmington? Trouble seems to follow her wherever she goes, and she has never struck me as having a personality that works well with college-age players.
Thompson I don't think is ready yet, and I agree that hiring within the alumni network is not a good plan; if nothing else, it makes it abundantly clear to outsiders that they aren't welcome.
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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IM in OC
Joined: 25 Mar 2009 Posts: 999 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: 03/07/17 8:07 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
LitePal wrote: |
It certainly made as much sense as hiring an assistant coach with no head coaching experience. |
If you're looking for national championships, the track record of first time head coaches is much better than hires from mid-majors. |
nm
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IM in OC
Joined: 25 Mar 2009 Posts: 999 Location: Orange County, CA
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LitePal
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 613
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Posted: 03/07/17 8:57 pm ::: |
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Similar to Sheryl Swoopes, I think CCD is the type of player who doesn't understand that what worked for her doesn't necessarily work for others. The aren't teachers and have little understanding of the players they recruited. I don't know what her transfer record was like elsewhere, but it was terrible at USC.
CCD did not dismiss that assistant coach and yes, that was completely inexcusable. But the Trojan Powers That Be overlooked it.
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taropatch
Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 814 Location: Kau Rubbish Dump
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Posted: 03/09/17 1:34 am ::: |
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Here's a dark horse candidate, Laura Beeman who just completed year 5 at Hawaii. Got to the Big Dance last year but had a rough season which just ended a few hours ago in the Big West Tourney quarterfinals. She would be a stronger candidate had she demonstrated better recruiting for the Wahine. It's puzzling because she was head coach for 16 years at Mt. SAC (.780), California JC, and you would think she built a great network by now. Worked under Michael Cooper with the Sparks and had two good seasons under him at USC. She left for Hawaii a year before Cooper's disastrous last season. Hawaii fans have often wondered when the PAC-12 would come calling for her.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11148
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Posted: 03/09/17 11:05 am ::: |
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I don't know that working for Michael Cooper is much of a positive ...
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 03/09/17 12:07 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
I don't know that working for Michael Cooper is much of a positive ... |
This is the school that hired Sarkisian to replace fired Kiffin and Helton to replace fired Sarkisian, so being a buddy and staff member of a fired head coach is evidently not disqualifying at USC. Indeed, evidently it's actually helpful because it means you're a "club member."
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