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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 02/21/17 3:15 pm ::: |
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I think this one was at least partially Laimbeer simply due to receiving the 2-for-1 value in return, and because Kia is a fit with their philosophy and helps organize their post structure differently from a coaching standpoint. Most people differ with me on this point, but I think part of the purpose of the deal was to open up a starter's spot for Zahui, who seems to play better as a starter than off the bench.
FWIW, the only trade I ever thought was potentially Isiah was Schimmel, because she is nothing like the prototype of a Laimbeer-style player. I thought it was a worthwhile risk then, and I also think so now. Even if she doesn't work out. Everyone knew the risks associated with her, and NY gave up a meaningless second round pick that they got back in the Zahui deal anyway. My one thought at the time was that the Libs were going to get carried away with trades for one-way players. But as it turned out, that wasn't a worry at all. All of the trades in the last year, regardless of who has had what input, have been a value-oriented steal for the Libs.
I'm fine with Isiah getting another chance, especially if he makes the most of it with regard to the community.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22474 Location: NJ
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Posted: 02/21/17 9:19 pm ::: |
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per their Facebook page, the Liberty have signed Ameryst Alston and Nayo Raincock-Ekunwe to 2017 Training Camp contracts. Alston's just a training camp body, but thoughts on Nayo? Possibly the 5th post for New York?
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6795
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Posted: 02/21/17 10:51 pm ::: |
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wow there is a lot of competition at SG, I'm not saying it is a sign of this but its more evidence that Wright or possible Zellous will be involved in a trade.
Her stats make it look like Raincock-Ekunwe is a PF or Center, anyone know for sure? It would be cool if she was a big SF.
Prince/Boyd/Hartley
Rodgers/Wright/Schimmel/Alston/Barbee
Zellous/Allen/Burdick
Charles/Zahui B./Raincock-Ekunwe
Stokes/Vaughn
#14 and #34 (so that is 18 players for 12 spots) obviously a few will be showing late to camp.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63763
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Posted: 02/21/17 11:16 pm ::: |
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McKinley's Alston excels in first professional season in Spain
http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/20170123/lovin-basketball-mckinleys-alston-excels-in-first-professional-season-in-spain
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Alston is thriving in her first season playing professional basketball overseas. She is averaging 16.3 points, 3.3 rebounds and 2.4 assists as the starting point guard for Al-Qazeres (8-7), which competes in Liga Femenina de Baloncesto, Spain's top women's league. |
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"It's been fun," Alston said, speaking by phone from Spain. "I'm having a great experience and I'm happy our team is doing well. When I signed there, they were looking for me to have a big impact on the team and I've been able to do that so far." |
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Alston was chosen in the second round of the WNBA Draft by the New York Liberty.
She played in just one regular-season game — for 13 seconds — and was released after the Liberty's second game, the consequence of joining a team that had eight guards on its 12-person roster. (The team's first-round pick, center Adut Bulgak, was waived a few months later.) New York eventually won the Eastern Conference with a 21-13 record.
"They had a lot of (veterans) on the team," Alston said. "It's a business and I didn't take anything personal. They brought in a lot of players who had experience, who had already been in the league.
"It was a great experience to go play against great players in training camp and I was glad I was able to make the roster, even if I was only there for a couple games."
Ameryst said she would like to get back in the WNBA, but doesn't want to look too far ahead.
"I've got no complaints," she said. "I'm happy to have this opportunity and do what I love to do for a job." |
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Al-Qazeres' 26-game regular season ends April 1, with the top four teams advancing to the two-round tournament. Even if Al-Qazeres advances, the season ends in time for Alston to get back to the United States for the WNBA season, which begins May 13. |
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 02/21/17 11:29 pm ::: |
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Raincock-Ekunwe is a post player when she's with the Canadian national team. I've never seen her in Europe. I'd say she's a Cierra Burdick type smaller post. That always leaves the possibility that Bill might try to convert her to SF. Who knows? I do remember thinking Raincock-Ekunwe might make a good camp invite for someone, so I have a vaguely positive impression of her. The interesting thing is that she's gotten more playing time than some better known Canadian posts who starred at US colleges -- like Achonwa and the Plouffe sisters. For that matter, Bulgak and Hamblin didn't even make the Olympic team. Not that it necessarily means that Raincock-Ekunwe is better.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6795
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Posted: 02/21/17 11:35 pm ::: |
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root_thing wrote: |
Raincock-Ekunwe is a post player when she's with the Canadian national team. I've never seen her in Europe. I'd say she's a Cierra Burdick type smaller post. That always leaves the possibility that Bill might try to convert her to SF. Who knows? I do remember thinking Raincock-Ekunwe might make a good camp invite for someone, so I have a vaguely positive impression of her. The interesting thing is that she's gotten more playing time than some better known Canadian posts who starred at US colleges -- like Achonwa and the Plouffe sisters. For that matter, Bulgak and Hamblin didn't even make the Olympic team. Not that it necessarily means that Raincock-Ekunwe is better. |
She is playing in Australia and has decent numbers something like 15 and 8, I don't know if she can shoot the 3 which would make her more of a possibility at the SF spot.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 02/22/17 12:13 am ::: |
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J-Spoon wrote: |
root_thing wrote: |
Raincock-Ekunwe is a post player when she's with the Canadian national team. I've never seen her in Europe. I'd say she's a Cierra Burdick type smaller post. That always leaves the possibility that Bill might try to convert her to SF. Who knows? I do remember thinking Raincock-Ekunwe might make a good camp invite for someone, so I have a vaguely positive impression of her. The interesting thing is that she's gotten more playing time than some better known Canadian posts who starred at US colleges -- like Achonwa and the Plouffe sisters. For that matter, Bulgak and Hamblin didn't even make the Olympic team. Not that it necessarily means that Raincock-Ekunwe is better. |
She is playing in Australia and has decent numbers something like 15 and 8, I don't know if she can shoot the 3 which would make her more of a possibility at the SF spot. |
1-11 in 24 Australian games and 0-3 in 6 Olympic matches. So, not a 3Pt shooter.
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root_thing
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24349 Location: London
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Posted: 02/22/17 12:59 am ::: |
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Luuuc and I had a brief discussion about Raincock-Ekunwe over in the WNBL thread a while back. I liked her when she was playing for Canada in the Olympics, and stood out ahead of players I'd heard of before. Hustle, energy-post who at the very least will make people work to beat her out in training camp. |
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 02/22/17 1:54 am ::: |
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I usually check the boxscore before I watch an archived game to see if the player I'm "scouting" played significant minutes and performed well. I was lazy this time and it cost me. Raincock-Ekuwe only played 18:37 and she had a crappy game. Even missed some key free throws when it was still competitive. My first impression is that NRE appears shorter than her listed 6-2. It also looks like she can't shoot at all. On the positive side, she moves her feet well on defense. I forgot that Luuuc has game links, so maybe I'll find one where Raincock-Ekunwe played well and watch that later.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 02/26/17 8:08 pm ::: |
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Do you guys think there will be a significant addition in the neighborhood of draft day? My thought is still yes. I just don't think we're going to see a team with 4 or 5 players all ideally best suited to the 2 spot. What do you guys think?
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 02/26/17 9:05 pm ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
Do you guys think there will be a significant addition in the neighborhood of draft day? My thought is still yes. I just don't think we're going to see a team with 4 or 5 players all ideally best suited to the 2 spot. What do you guys think? |
I've said all along that I expect a significant roster move. I still do. But there's always a chance that Bill Laimbeer has been trying and trying and hasn't come up with a deal that genuinely makes sense.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 02/26/17 9:13 pm ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
Do you guys think there will be a significant addition in the neighborhood of draft day? My thought is still yes. I just don't think we're going to see a team with 4 or 5 players all ideally best suited to the 2 spot. What do you guys think? |
I think that's the consensus, but it takes two to make a trade. All these major deals completed early in the process makes me wonder if teams haven't already shot their load. Plus, who out there actually needs 2-guard help?
Even if nothing happens, we actually have less uncertainty than at the start of the last two seasons. Remember, in 2015 the Liberty acquired Prince but we knew she would miss the first 10 games. Everyone was hoping we could survive that period going like 3-7 -- just not 1-9 or 0-10. We also had a bunch of other question marks: Carson, Cash, and Wiggins trying to bounce back from bad seasons, Swords returning to the league after being cut due to injury, and three low profile rookies in Boyd, Stokes, and Allen. In 2016, we knew Prince was out for most of the season and she probably wouldn't be much help even if she returned. So, who was the number 2 option? And then there was no SF on the roster to begin the year. At least for 2017, we know Rodgers is the second option and Prince could be a great third option if she's back to normal. The roster also includes half a dozen third or fourth-year players who have shown enough ability that we can hope one or two will step-up like Sugar did. Yes, the Liberty may not look that impressive on paper, but that was also true the prior two seasons. I honestly believe the talent level on this roster 1 through 12 is better than ever.
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006 Posts: 4174 Location: QUEENS!!!!
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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Posted: 02/26/17 10:44 pm ::: |
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I see where you both are coming from. I think it's unquestionable the 3 spot will be addressed because I don't see NY going with just Zellous behind Allen. It would run counter to how a Bill Laimbeer coached team has ever attained success. I think an alternative to Allen (possibly a better one) is definitely in the cards. I don't say that due to the lack of trust in the playoffs, but rather because the SF spot is a spot where you can assert a physical/height mismatch in your favor with the right player. And we know that when Laimbeer has had success, that's exactly how he has done it.
Given that, I'd be surprised if the Libs still have their 2018 first round pick when the season starts.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 02/26/17 11:16 pm ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
I see where you both are coming from. I think it's unquestionable the 3 spot will be addressed because I don't see NY going with just Zellous behind Allen. It would run counter to how a Bill Laimbeer coached team has ever attained success. I think an alternative to Allen (possibly a better one) is definitely in the cards. I don't say that due to the lack of trust in the playoffs, but rather because the SF spot is a spot where you can assert a physical/height mismatch in your favor with the right player. And we know that when Laimbeer has had success, that's exactly how he has done it.
Given that, I'd be surprised if the Libs still have their 2018 first round pick when the season starts. |
I agree with your thinking about the SF position. I just don't believe that what Laimbeer decided about Allen for a one-game 2016 postseason is all that crucial. If, for example, Allen can become a significant scorer, hit three-pointers, and spread the floor for Charles, she'll get a good deal of playing time. But, even if that happens, it would surely be ideal to have someone to share the SF position who can (as you say) "assert a physical/height mismatch" and help the team that way.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6795
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Posted: 02/26/17 11:30 pm ::: |
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But it still comes back to there has to be someone to trade for, and you have to give something to get something, so what could it be at this point I'm not sure if something is going to happen, bringing in players like Burdick and Raincock-Ekunwe seems like we're crossing our finger one can be that bigger SF who can defend. The options I can come up with for trades all seem pretty unlikely, (obviously there are option I might have missed) but we've all been trying all off season to come up with something and I'm not sure this trade is out there, or if there is one, that it is going to be all that thrilling.
Stokes for Bonner (if she is willing to play this season in NY)
Stokes for Christmas (maybe with #4 or #10 thrown in)
2018 first round pick for Christmas (Maybe with Zellous, Schimmel or #14 thrown in)
Stokes for TRP and #6
Zellous or Wright for Currie or T. Young?
Stokes for Currie and #5
Stokes for Young and #9
Zellous for #7 (not sure a pick resolves the SF situation)
Wright for O'hea
Schimmel and #14 for O'hea
Schimmel and Wright for Clark
Wrigt for R. Williams even though she is another SG
Wright for Dabovic
Someone to Minny for K. Hampton
2018 first round pick for Coleman or S. Johnson?
Rodgers and Stokes for McCoughtry
Who are the possible targets that I might be missing? And what is the asking price?
I'm not against a trade I'm just becoming more skeptical that there is one out there that will help more than it might possible hurt, and the fact that a lot has already happened makes it seems less possible than it did a few weeks ago. I'm also pretty weary of trading Stokes unless it for someone game changing, and even though I like both Zellous and Wright (the other players I could see being traded) I'm not sure what they bring back will be anything more than a lateral move.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63763
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Posted: 02/27/17 12:28 am ::: |
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J-Spoon wrote: |
Stokes for Bonner (if she is willing to play this season in NY) |
I think PHX has enough centers
J-Spoon wrote: |
Stokes for Christmas (maybe with #4 or #10 thrown in) |
Merry Christmas to Dallas
J-Spoon wrote: |
2018 first round pick for Christmas (Maybe with Zellous, Schimmel or #14 thrown in) |
You're not appreciating the value of the 2018 draft
J-Spoon wrote: |
Stokes for TRP and #6 |
I think WAS might be targeting somebody with that #6 pick.
J-Spoon wrote: |
Zellous for #7 (not sure a pick resolves the SF situation) |
Only if you think a rookie will help your situation
J-Spoon wrote: |
Schimmel and #14 for O'hea
Schimmel and Wright for ClarkWright for O'hea |
Most teams probably know Schimmel could be cut
J-Spoon wrote: |
Wright for O'hea
Wright for R. Williams even though she is another SG
Wright for Dabovic |
All the attempts to trade Wright are pretty shameful
J-Spoon wrote: |
Someone to Minny for K. Hampton |
Second rounder in 2018?
J-Spoon wrote: |
Rodgers and Stokes for McCoughtry
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Toss in the first round in 2018
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 02/27/17 1:27 am ::: |
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Here is the distribution of minutes for that playoff game against Phoenix:
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Tina Charles 36:22
Swin Cash 11:34
Carolyn Swords 26:35
Sugar Rodgers 24:12
Tanisha Wright 28:11
Shavonte Zellous 27:49
Brittany Boyd 11:58
Epiphanny Prince 16:40
Amanda Zahui B 6:26
Kiah Stokes 10:14
Rebecca Allen -
Shoni Schimmel -
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If Laimbeer didn't trust Allen's defense, which better defender got her minutes? Well, it looks like Prince took Allen's place in the rotation. Now, if your goal is to improve your defense against the biggest team in the league, one with only two players under six feet tall (Xargay 5-11, Harding 5-8 ), do you bench the 6-1 player with long arms and good speed in favor of a 5-9 player who is still recovering from her knee injury? It doesn't sound logical to me -- especially since Prince is not known for her defense. Furthermore, if this is about trust, it doesn't appear that Bill trusted Cash or Zahui B either. Even Rodgers played fewer minutes than usual. Stokes didn't look recovered from her injury, so it's no surprise her minutes dropped. Boyd essentially took herself out of the game by racking up 5 fouls in under 12 minutes. So who got extra minutes besides Prince? Swords, Wright, and Zellous. Carolyn is no longer with the team. If minutes in that one playoff game is so indicative of what's to come, then does New York's future lie with Wright and Zellous?
Laimbeer told Allen before the season ended that she might not play against Phoenix. This was not an in-game decision. The team finished the season playing poorly, and I think Bill couldn't find any quick solutions to the problem. So, he did what coaches usually do when they run out of ideas -- go conservative and use veterans. I don't think it had anything to do with offense or defense. It was mostly "these guys have been here before". As things turned out, Prince actually played pretty well -- scoring 12 points in under 17 minutes. But that was offensive success, not defense.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 02/27/17 2:08 am ::: |
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root_thing wrote: |
Here is the distribution of minutes for that playoff game against Phoenix:
Code: |
Tina Charles 36:22
Swin Cash 11:34
Carolyn Swords 26:35
Sugar Rodgers 24:12
Tanisha Wright 28:11
Shavonte Zellous 27:49
Brittany Boyd 11:58
Epiphanny Prince 16:40
Amanda Zahui B 6:26
Kiah Stokes 10:14
Rebecca Allen -
Shoni Schimmel -
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If Laimbeer didn't trust Allen's defense, which better defender got her minutes? Well, it looks like Prince took Allen's place in the rotation. Now, if your goal is to improve your defense against the biggest team in the league, one with only two players under six feet tall (Xargay 5-11, Harding 5-8 ), do you bench the 6-1 player with long arms and good speed in favor of a 5-9 player who is still recovering from her knee injury? It doesn't sound logical to me -- especially since Prince is not known for her defense. Furthermore, if this is about trust, it doesn't appear that Bill trusted Cash or Zahui B either. Even Rodgers played fewer minutes than usual. Stokes didn't look recovered from her injury, so it's no surprise her minutes dropped. Boyd essentially took herself out of the game by racking up 5 fouls in under 12 minutes. So who got extra minutes besides Prince? Swords, Wright, and Zellous. Carolyn is no longer with the team. If minutes in that one playoff game is so indicative of what's to come, then does New York's future lie with Wright and Zellous?
Laimbeer told Allen before the season ended that she might not play against Phoenix. This was not an in-game decision. The team finished the season playing poorly, and I think Bill couldn't find any quick solutions to the problem. So, he did what coaches usually do when they run out of ideas -- go conservative and use veterans. I don't think it had anything to do with offense or defense. It was mostly "these guys have been here before". As things turned out, Prince actually played pretty well -- scoring 12 points in under 17 minutes. But that was offensive success, not defense. |
Thanks for sharing the breakdown of playing time for that game and for your analysis. Goes along with what I was trying to say above.
My guess: whether there is a significant roster move for a SF or not, Bill Laimbeer will come into training camp with an open mind about the team's younger players. And Rebecca Allen will have an opportunity to show that her offense and defense are good enough to merit significant playing time.
Indeed, New York looks likely to have enough talent from 1-12 on the roster that there will be plenty of competition for playing time. If I'm right, training camp and the first 10-15 games of the season will be a testing ground to see what these players can give the Liberty in 2017.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6795
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Posted: 02/27/17 2:12 am ::: |
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Shades just listing out all the possibilities even slight that I can come up with,
But the actual point of the whole post is that I don't think we'll make a trade, because I don't think there is a trade out there for us to make that will improve our SF situation, at least without hurting our team by giving up other assets we shouldn't be giving up.
I like Wright, want to keep Wright, a little surprised we haven't re-signed her, I like Zellous and Stokes, want to keep Zellous and Stokes but those three along with the 2018 first round pick are our only assets that I think we could move. Maybe Zahui B, but I don't think Zahui B. has proved herself enough in the W to carry a big return even though I think she could break out next season, MIP and Six Woman on the table IMO.
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Shades
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32335
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Posted: 02/27/17 1:29 pm ::: |
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Her face isn't nearly as puffy as when she was at her fattest. Nice to see she is still inspiring youngsters anyway.
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if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12528 Location: Dallas , Texas
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