| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013
Posts: 418
Location: away from here
Back to top |
 Posted: 02/21/17 1:19 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
| MuneravenMN wrote: |
| Jet Jaguar wrote: |
| bryan_february_ wrote: |
| I don't like how people are assuming she's lying as if they know what's going on behind closed locker room doors. It's entirely possible that she's saying outlandish stuff to sell her book but I'm interested in hearing more about her personal experience. |
If a gay player said she was bullied for being gay people would be furious and not question her; whether there were other players who experienced this or not. Since she's straight she gets dismissed as being a lier. Double standards much? |
Context.
She says 98% of players are gay. That is demonstrably untrue.
She says she was bullied for being straight, but then says they called her "b__," an epithet generally referring to behavior rather than sexual orientation.
She is "proud" of being a straight woman. Think about the people you know who like to tell folks they are proud of being White. It has been my experience that proclaiming pride in being part of being part of a majority goes hand in hand with prejudice against minority groups.
I dislike bullying, but Wiggins own words raised a ton of red flags. |
That's not true at all. Why is it okay to say that you're proud to be gay or to be a minority but not that you're proud of being white or being straight?
|
|
zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013
Posts: 418
Location: away from here
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 1:28 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Just saw this Facebook post from Charde Houston.
| Quote: |
Interesting that people only tell one side of the story. Not that part of you actually having a crush on a female, lying, harassing and threatening others because of your issues ...but anyway, I'll get back to eating my pizza...
And I don't want any attention. Just call the shit how you see it. Especially when everyone kissed your ass when you first came smh! |
| Quote: |
Right! Where y'all math come from? Why were you the only only one who was getting pressed by the gay girls though? Nobody is even like that lol
|
| Quote: |
| Lmaoooo right! Her mom and sister calling my phone all day and night talking about how they wanna fight me and how I'm jealous and all types of shit...like girl bye. She did plenty of crazy shit...and I'm still waiting to Catch the Bitch fade til this day. I'm petty and I don't forget a damn thing 😂😂😂😂....seriously though, like who bullied you? |
| Quote: |
"Bread crumbs" comes from her being born with a silver spoon in her mouth. "Bread crumbs" allowed me
To take care of my family. So that big ass house she used to live in stayed dirty so it goes to show...Size doesn't matter. It's who you are and what you stand for as a person. All of a sudden we fighting for "pennies"...like you weren't there too FOH |
| Quote: |
| Ivory Latta Chardé Houston she just mad because 98% of the time her weave was horrible but let me sip my tea and mind my business☕️ 🐸☕️ #PettyLatta |
| Quote: |
| She use to ask sooooooo many gay questions all the time. We all knew she wanted the NBA dick! And nobody cared until they had a story about the experience lol |
| Quote: |
Or mention the night your drunk ass wanted to go home with a guy you just met at the club. And I literally had to argue her down that she wasn't leaving me and Nicky to go fuck with a stranger...talk about how people looked out for you when it could of turned out all bad!! |
|
|
CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 1:38 pm ::: Re: Wiggins: WNBA's 'harmful' culture of bullying, jealousy |
Reply |
|
| Genero, the Burn Book and the Mariah Carey pictures/GIFs were AWESOME!
|
|
hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 5353
Location: Fayetteville
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 2:10 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| zvyn3 wrote: |
That's not true at all. Why is it okay to say that you're proud to be gay or to be a minority but not that you're proud of being white or being straight? |
On the surface of it, theoretically there shouldn't be anything wrong with it per say. Everybody being able to be proud in who or what they are should be a positive, right? Here's the thing... the idea of being white and straight have been lionized since time in memoriam. There is daily affirmation of how good it is to be white and straight. It was held up as the ideal thing to be for generations to the detriment of all others. We didn't see ourselves in print, cinema, news and when we did, more often than not it was in a negative connotation. It is why there are Black Pride, Gay Pride, Cuban Pride, Puerto Rican Pride, etc., etc. movements. We were held out of the mainstream for so long, not considered worthy by the majority. To counteract th negativity we decided to tell ourselves we were worthy. Its not that being white and straight is not something you can take pride in. Its when that pride is taken to a level that becomes racially exclusive, xenophobic, and homophobic that it becomes a problem.
Last edited by hyperetic on 02/21/17 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14097
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 2:11 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ClayK wrote: |
This is very sad ... and very disappointing.
I've watched Candice Wiggins play since she was in high school, and she's always been a very good basketball player. She also played with a lot of emotion -- she wanted to win, and did what was necessary to do so.
At the same time, she incessantly complained about foul calls on her, and reports make it clear she was a big-time trash talker.
All that to say she was a very good player, but not a perfect one ...
Her father was Alan Wiggins, a major league baseball player who excelled before cocaine addiction ended his career and eventually killed him, but she went to La Jolla Country Day, a tony private school, and Stanford, an elite institution that is justifiably considered one of the best universities in the country, if not the world.
I would estimate, given her overseas earning, that Wiggins made at $2 million and likely closer to $3 million, in her professional career, and traveled around the world.
All that to say that women's basketball contributed greatly to her getting a superior education and also generated more income for her before the age of 30 than many people make in a lifetime.
And yet this is the message she chooses to deliver ...
Very sad, and very disappointing |
I agree wholeheartedly. And on three fronts my thought process was very similar to yours. Her will to win would make one believe she loved playing and competing. Her thoughts about her dad, some of which she has made public in articles and interviews, are very compelling. And playing this sport has enabled to her to earn an enormous amount of money and get a free top-tier education. I really valued Wiggins in NY. It's very disappointing.
Not to mention, the conservative-leaning NY Post ran an article about it today, as people have predicted.
http://nypost.com/2017/02/21/retired-wnba-star-i-was-tormented-for-not-being-gay/
_________________
The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
|
|
Hoops9092
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 1639
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 2:15 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Very interesting statements by my beloved Candice.
To be honest, when I attended my first WNBA game in Sacramento in 2004 or 2005 I was absolutely stunned how many lesbians I was surrounded by. I have nothing against lesbians, gays, trans, etc - but I Just didn't realize how much of a social outing WNBA games were for lesbian couples.
I, as a young fan at the time, didn't necessarily feel the "out of place" feeling, but I sure learned that day that this was a lesbian dominated sporting event.
Sad to see Candice take it to this point. Hoping she steps forward to clarify and/or apologize.
Last edited by Hoops9092 on 02/21/17 2:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
jap
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 7922
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 2:16 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| i think Wiggy seriously needs a hug.
_________________
Regards,
J A P
|
|
Hoops9092
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 1639
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 2:20 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Wasn't it Deanna Nolan who targeted her as a rookie and said some pretty F'd up stuff?
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 2:48 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| zvyn3 wrote: |
That's not true at all. Why is it okay to say that you're proud to be gay or to be a minority but not that you're proud of being white or being straight? |
This is a very good question, with a very complex answer. It is complex because it deals with relative relationships between different social classes and it is not always a static metric.
We must distinguish the context in which someone is asserting their "pride". It is always good to feel proud of who you are. People should not be ashamed of themselves, no matter their background or identity. And anyone who struggles with self image issues should be encouraged to vocalize their self worth in a constructive manner.
When someone who is part of a traditionally marginalized class announces their "pride" it is typically in direct response to that marginalization. Traditional cultural and social ideologies work against them, interpellating them to be ashamed of who they are. "Pride" movements are meant to counter those forces.
As with most movements, there tends also to be a reactionary force that wants to maintain the current culture and social balances. This is where the term "White Pride" arises, with its specific connotation. Because of this, certain terms are freighted with these connotations, no matter who is using them or why.
But outside of that, we also have to understand that none of this happens in a vacuum. While I can be proud of who I am, when I take a public stance about that pride I am now affecting other people. For a non-marginalized person to do this, it flaunts their privilege in the face of those who do not have it. Think of a wealthy person bragging about their wealth in a homeless shelter. It is at best tactless, and at worst deliberately cruel. Ultimately, the question comes down to Why do I need to proclaim my pride at being white (or straight), when all of society already accepts me as I am?. What does this proclamation accomplish?
Think of it also in terms of why it is okay to have a United Negro College Fund, but a United White Person College Fund would be inappropriate. In one it works to fix a well-established imbalance, in the other it would pile on to that imbalance.
Now, this is the general state of that question. Different dynamics can change the equation so that it makes sense to make that statement. In the case of Wiggins, I actually don't have an issue with her using this phrase. As I mentioned, pride is about taking ownership of who you are in the face of opposing forces. Due to the outside perception of the WNBA as a league full of lesbians, it actually makes sense that a straight woman would want to express her identity. That it is possible to be straight, embrace what is traditionally thought of as feminine, and still be a world class women's basketball player.
The problem with what she wrote is that she did this in a framework that allows her to express her identity while simultaneously perpetuating the erroneous perceptions about the league and making it into an "us vs. them" issue between gay and straight players. When she writes about being proud in the direct context of that gay vs. straight dynamic it no longer is just about how she is marginalized by outside forces, and necessarily draws comparisons to the pride movements as a whole. It should not be surprising that people would be taken aback by her comments.
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
Scarab
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 3265
Location: Atlanta (Decatur)
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 3:52 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Imani Boyette's response: Dear Candice
_________________
Dream Founding Fan/STH
Be afraid. Be very afraid. One Team. One Dream baby!
|
|
Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 4:20 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Thanks for posting this powerful statement.
_________________
Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
|
|
Carol Anne
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1739
Location: Seattle
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 4:25 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
|
Thank you for the link to Imani's blog. I posted it with a comment to the Seattle Times, which printed Tod Leonard's interview with Candice (why, I have no idea).
|
|
root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 4:56 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Carol Anne wrote: |
|
Thank you for the link to Imani's blog. I posted it with a comment to the Seattle Times, which printed Tod Leonard's interview with Candice (why, I have no idea). |
Good thinking. I was just lamenting the fact that the general public won't see what Mo and Imani wrote. However, if we have an opportunity to post those links ourselves, that would help the cause somewhat.
_________________
You can always do something else.
|
|
Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 11188
Back to top |
|
Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 11188
Back to top |
|
sigur3
Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 6191
Location: Chicago-ish
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 5:45 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| God, I'm so proud to have Imani in Chicago.
|
|
MuneravenMN
Champion Tipster
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 3990
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 6:08 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| hyperetic wrote: |
| zvyn3 wrote: |
That's not true at all. Why is it okay to say that you're proud to be gay or to be a minority but not that you're proud of being white or being straight? |
On the surface of it, theoretically there shouldn't be anything wrong with it per say. Everybody being able to be proud in who or what they are should be a positive, right? Here's the thing... the idea of being white and straight have been lionized since time in memoriam. There is daily affirmation of how good it is to be white and straight. It was held up as the ideal thing to be for generations to the detriment of all others. We didn't see ourselves in print, cinema, news and when we did, more often than not it was in a negative connotation. It is why there are Black Pride, Gay Pride, Cuban Pride, Puerto Rican Pride, etc., etc. movements. We were held out of the mainstream for so long, not considered worthy by the majority. To counteract th negativity we decided to tell ourselves we were worthy. Its not that being white and straight is not something you can take pride in. Its when that pride is taken to a level that becomes racially exclusive, xenophobic, and homophobic that it becomes a problem. |
Well-stated.
I was a season ticket holder the whole time Wiggins was in MN. My wife and I always found her a bit odd. She was talented and a hard worker. I wish I could pin down why we found her off-putting but I can't. It is often hard to know exactly why you are put off by someone. We cheered her on and certainly felt bad for her when she was injured. But somehow she was hard to warm up to. Obviously some players are gregarious and easy to like, and others are harder to get to know. That wasn't it. But if I were going to compare her to another athlete I just never could warm up to, it would be A-Rod. I am a long-time Mariners fan but I never liked A-Rod. Huge talent. Something odd about the guy.
_________________
Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character.
--John Wooden
|
|
Scarab
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 3265
Location: Atlanta (Decatur)
Back to top |
|
elsie
Joined: 08 Apr 2016
Posts: 276
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 7:40 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
" If the environment was so bad, then why did't she quit and just play overseas"
would you say that about a gay man who played in the nfl, nba, etc and stayed there many years?.....no.....you would say they did for the love of the game, the money, the travel, etc....
I believe every word CW says and most people know it as well...
I know of straight college bb players who got NO chance in the WNBA clique...none....due to their being "different"...iows....straight....
discrimination....it looks ugly no matter who is doing it.....
|
|
Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18029
Location: Queens
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 7:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Oh, shiiiiiiiiit, Charde goin' in.
Now I'm paranoid and wondering if it's just a coincidence that Wiggins opened her mouth and snagged the spotlight right when Augustus was announcing the film thing, or if she's being petty because she can.
_________________
Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
|
|
WfanFrJmp
Joined: 24 May 2016
Posts: 1423
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 7:45 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Goodness, this whole thing is just....sad all around....
Great response from Imani.
|
|
elsie
Joined: 08 Apr 2016
Posts: 276
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 7:51 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
so, let me get this "straight"...
she's the jerk for making these charges....
but most on this board are NOT jerks for attacking her...????? me thinks many people doth protest too much...
truth hurts..
..maybe the best solution would be for the wnba to LOOK at itself and wonder why such charges are brought up, because anybody in the general population will completely agree with them, and why it struggles to attract a big fan base and why it has to give away tickets to make it look like it has any fans....
you want fans, you have to appeal to ALL people and not small segments....
its called marketing....its called selling a product...
|
|
Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18029
Location: Queens
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 7:55 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| It's called "straight people can watch, admire, and look up to lesbians too".
_________________
Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
|
|
NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14097
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 8:04 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| elsie wrote: |
so, let me get this "straight"...
she's the jerk for making these charges....
but most on this board are NOT jerks for attacking her...????? me thinks many people doth protest too much...
truth hurts..
..maybe the best solution would be for the wnba to LOOK at itself and wonder why such charges are brought up, because anybody in the general population will completely agree with them, and why it struggles to attract a big fan base and why it has to give away tickets to make it look like it has any fans....
you want fans, you have to appeal to ALL people and not small segments....
its called marketing....its called selling a product... |
She's one of my favorite players but I have to call it like I see it. First off, the 98% is a total exaggeration. And to paraphrase what Chantelle Anderson said on Facebook, when there's an exaggeration to that extent you have to wonder about the veracity of the rest of her statement. Secondly, WNBA players have uniformly on social media disagreed with the part discussing orientation and its influence.
Wiggins was a physical and chippy player. She was slender and had lost something of her athleticism through injury. I actually admired her toughness. In pickup basketball, and being the smallest player in stature on the court, I often did the same to compensate. I was sometimes disliked for it. Basketball is a physical sport. As a rookie, I'm not surprised that she was introduced to the pro game so harshly. Becky Hammon was roughed up by the Liberty in her first training camp as well. It's a way to initiate players so that they know what they are up against as pros. Becky (never one of my favorites) didn't whine about it and admitted it made her a better player. It's hardly a stretch to think that the same standard was applied to Ice, with the caveat that maybe it got a little personal because some players didn't like her. Wouldn't be the first time a rookie had to be reminded of their stature relative to other players...regardless of the sport.
I don't have a problem with her expression of the experience of feeling bullied. No one can tell her how to feel. But when you make such sweeping statements about the orientation of players you damn well should have something more in the way of evidence and not just your opinion before you do. It's unfair to the league, individual players and the fans. End of story.
_________________
The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
|
|
MuneravenMN
Champion Tipster
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 3990
Back to top |
| Posted: 02/21/17 8:13 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| elsie wrote: |
" If the environment was so bad, then why did't she quit and just play overseas"
would you say that about a gay man who played in the nfl, nba, etc and stayed there many years?.....no.....you would say they did for the love of the game, the money, the travel, etc....
I believe every word CW says and most people know it as well...
I know of straight college bb players who got NO chance in the WNBA clique...none....due to their being "different"...iows....straight....
discrimination....it looks ugly no matter who is doing it..... |
Sorry, not buying it.
Tell me a WNBA locker room can be bitchy? I'll bite. Tell me there is jealousy, that differences in race, class, sexual orientation, and religion can lead to cliques and arguments and so on? Sure. But there is no way there is some lesbian cabal that comprises 98% of WNBA players and goes around picking on the poor straight girls who play basketball.
You have an agenda and it is showing, not unlike Wiggins.
_________________
Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character.
--John Wooden
|
|
|
|
