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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 5349
Location: Fayetteville
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 Posted: 02/21/17 12:10 am ::: |
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| sigur3 wrote: |
| miller40 wrote: |
| She complained about the WNBA's lack of attention and pay, but she's going to try beach volleyball at 30+? |
And also, if no one cares about the WNBA, who is going to buy her book? |
Evangelicals, he-man women hater ex-jocks, hetero females, Republicans maybe...
Wait...
We can't use the word h-a-t-e-r in here? And it autochanges it now? |
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MNfan22
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 2750
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| Posted: 02/21/17 12:16 am ::: |
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| AAOK423 wrote: |
Serious question: Why did the San Diego Union-Tribune publish this? Who is Todd Leonard and why didn't he seem to get any other sources then Wiggins? ...
So why didn't Todd Leonard do more research? Talk to more WNBA players? Make sure that the person they were writing on article on was credible and not just a bitter former employee? |
Well she played HS ball & gained fame in SD, he was writing about her due to some hall of fame induction? So most likely this is what she chose to speak on ... in order to bring up her book.
Story about "her experience" in the league, so who more credible to quote then the subject you're doing the story on? Lots of quotes from her so she's the one to have to answer to them.
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Minnesota Lynx-est 1999-WNBA Champs! '11,'13,'15, '17
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bryan_february_
Joined: 28 Aug 2015
Posts: 702
Location: USA
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| Posted: 02/21/17 12:30 am ::: |
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| I don't like how people are assuming she's lying as if they know what's going on behind closed locker room doors. It's entirely possible that she's saying outlandish stuff to sell her book but I'm interested in hearing more about her personal experience.
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sigur3
Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 6191
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: 02/21/17 12:41 am ::: |
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| hyperetic wrote: |
| sigur3 wrote: |
| miller40 wrote: |
| She complained about the WNBA's lack of attention and pay, but she's going to try beach volleyball at 30+? |
And also, if no one cares about the WNBA, who is going to buy her book? |
Evangelicals, he-man women person with an opinion different from mine ex-jocks, hetero females, Republicans maybe...
Wait...
We can't use the word h-a-t-e-r in here? And it autochanges it now? |
It's been that way for a while. I would have autocorrected it to "word used to discredit someone else's point without having any sort of argument" but I don't make the rules, I just follow them. Usually.
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jmpenn90
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 461
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| Posted: 02/21/17 12:48 am ::: |
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| I am very sorry if she was bullied but I feel that it was very harmful to make statements like this without specifics. She claims that players were physically trying to hurt her all of the time. I highly doubt every player in the league was doing that so why say it without naming names? Does she not see that it hurts everyone that she played against even friends. And this is why you don't lump an entire group together. There are good and bad in every group. If this needed to come out she should have saved it until she was ready to give the details and then the players that bullied her could respond. That way people not involved could be left out. Question can she right about players in her book without their permission especially if it is negative?
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MNfan22
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 2750
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| Posted: 02/21/17 1:07 am ::: |
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| bryan_february_ wrote: |
| I don't like how people are assuming she's lying as if they know what's going on behind closed locker room doors. It's entirely possible that she's saying outlandish stuff to sell her book but I'm interested in hearing more about her personal experience. |
Well I think it was outlandish to state 98% of the league is gay and that heterosexuals (all 3 of them) are being bulled by the 98%. Many in the league are disputing that so ....
As to her experience, it is what it was and that will apparently be in her book. Whatever happened in her situation is unfortunate but is not the norm according to many players. So over the last 20yrs if there are others who experienced what she did they'll have to speak their own stories.
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Jet Jaguar
Joined: 11 Feb 2014
Posts: 1111
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| Posted: 02/21/17 1:16 am ::: |
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| bryan_february_ wrote: |
| I don't like how people are assuming she's lying as if they know what's going on behind closed locker room doors. It's entirely possible that she's saying outlandish stuff to sell her book but I'm interested in hearing more about her personal experience. |
If a gay player said she was bullied for being gay people would be furious and not question her; whether there were other players who experienced this or not. Since she's straight she gets dismissed as being a lier. Double standards much?
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
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| Posted: 02/21/17 1:38 am ::: |
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| Jet Jaguar wrote: |
| bryan_february_ wrote: |
| I don't like how people are assuming she's lying as if they know what's going on behind closed locker room doors. It's entirely possible that she's saying outlandish stuff to sell her book but I'm interested in hearing more about her personal experience. |
If a gay player said she was bullied for being gay people would be furious and not question her; whether there were other players who experienced this or not. Since she's straight she gets dismissed as being a lier. Double standards much? |
It's not that she was bullied that we question. That very well could be the case. It's her suggestion that she was bullied for being a heterosexual. That stretches credulity.
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 1091
Location: NorCal
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| Posted: 02/21/17 5:18 am ::: |
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| Belief often clouds perception. It might be possible that she believed coming into the league that it was predominately homosexual. If she had never been exposed to lesbians before than she might have been very fearful. We fear what we do not understand. That also might have been why she acted so aggressive on court. It might have been a defense mechanism. He attitude created negative reactions from other players which fed into and justified her initial biased attitude. She probably wanted to keep other players at a distance to avoid being hit on.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18028
Location: Queens
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| Posted: 02/21/17 7:29 am ::: |
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| willtalk wrote: |
| Belief often clouds perception. It might be possible that she believed coming into the league that it was predominately homosexual. If she had never been exposed to lesbians before than she might have been very fearful. We fear what we do not understand. That also might have been why she acted so aggressive on court. It might have been a defense mechanism. He attitude created negative reactions from other players which fed into and justified her initial biased attitude. She probably wanted to keep other players at a distance to avoid being hit on. |
She went to Stanford. Either she's so dense that one wonders how she would have gotten into any college- let alone one with Stanford's lofty academic standards- or she's been exposed to lesbians.
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Scarab
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 3265
Location: Atlanta (Decatur)
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| Posted: 02/21/17 7:33 am ::: |
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Former WNBA player Chantelle Anderson made a comment/post on Facebook about this: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10210980998414237&id=1032417279
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"In light of the recent article referencing quotes from a former player about the WNBA, I'll say this...
In 6 years in the league, I never saw or heard of anyone being bullied for being heterosexual.
I was NEVER asked to be more manly and less feminine. Actually, I probably had more off court opportunities because of how I looked (which is a discussion in itself for another time...the WNBA has become more progressive in their marketing than they were when I played, which is Awesome).
Though percentage wise, the league has more people who identify as homosexual than the general population, it is NOT "98% gay". That's just false. And that makes me wonder what else in the article is "exaggerated".
Of course it's competitive. It's sports. Ummm...ya.
The women of the WNBA are some of the best, strongest, most amazing people I know and I'm proud to have been a part of it.
#done #WNBA #womensbasketball #dreambig |
And then she made this additional comment about the Wiggins article:
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| "Ya...it was a mess...very disappointing. I just commented bc I saw people on another page just assuming it was true. I'm not gonna go in on anyone. And I have no room to judge. But I wanted to share my experience so people know it's not true. Plus, I just felt like I needed to defend the league and other players. Like what the heck. Sigh." |
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Last edited by Scarab on 02/21/17 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Carol Anne
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1739
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: 02/21/17 7:51 am ::: |
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| Candice Wiggins just turned 30 on February 14 (see her Facebook page for her slutty, one-woman party). Her basketball career is done. This interview was a pathetic cry for attention.
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MuneravenMN
Champion Tipster
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 3990
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| Posted: 02/21/17 7:53 am ::: |
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| Jet Jaguar wrote: |
| bryan_february_ wrote: |
| I don't like how people are assuming she's lying as if they know what's going on behind closed locker room doors. It's entirely possible that she's saying outlandish stuff to sell her book but I'm interested in hearing more about her personal experience. |
If a gay player said she was bullied for being gay people would be furious and not question her; whether there were other players who experienced this or not. Since she's straight she gets dismissed as being a lier. Double standards much? |
Context.
She says 98% of players are gay. That is demonstrably untrue.
She says she was bullied for being straight, but then says they called her "b__," an epithet generally referring to behavior rather than sexual orientation.
She is "proud" of being a straight woman. Think about the people you know who like to tell folks they are proud of being White. It has been my experience that proclaiming pride in being part of being part of a majority goes hand in hand with prejudice against minority groups.
I dislike bullying, but Wiggins own words raised a ton of red flags.
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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| Posted: 02/21/17 8:11 am ::: |
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| Jet Jaguar wrote: |
If a gay player said she was bullied for being gay people would be furious and not question her; whether there were other players who experienced this or not. Since she's straight she gets dismissed as being a lier. Double standards much? |
That's a crock of shit. She's being dismissed for her generalizations and the broad brush she's painted the league with.
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 5349
Location: Fayetteville
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| Posted: 02/21/17 9:46 am ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| Regarding there being just 3 straight players in the league, Candice's 2015 Liberty team had Cash and Warley-Talbert married to men and Kiah Stokes had a boyfriend. So, that's four just on her team alone. |
Side note, I know speculation is always going to happen, and I'm not disputing anything about any particular player, but for me personally I don't think that being pregnant or being married to a man or having a boyfriend is proof that someone is straight.
(I don't think it really matters either. I just think we should be careful about what we cite as "proof" given that reality is far less black-and-white than that, people put up fronts, people can change over time, etc...) |
Soooo...basically there is no way to prove, if you choose to, that you are strictly heterosexual? I mean yeah it shouldn't matter. But not making assumptions goes both ways. Sure some closeted individuals may take that route but usually if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, duck paddles like a duck, we give it the benefit of the doubt and see them as a duck, right? |
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 02/21/17 10:07 am ::: |
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| hyperetic wrote: |
| Luuuc wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| Regarding there being just 3 straight players in the league, Candice's 2015 Liberty team had Cash and Warley-Talbert married to men and Kiah Stokes had a boyfriend. So, that's four just on her team alone. |
Side note, I know speculation is always going to happen, and I'm not disputing anything about any particular player, but for me personally I don't think that being pregnant or being married to a man or having a boyfriend is proof that someone is straight.
(I don't think it really matters either. I just think we should be careful about what we cite as "proof" given that reality is far less black-and-white than that, people put up fronts, people can change over time, etc...) |
Soooo...basically there is no way to prove, if you choose to, that you are strictly heterosexual? I mean yeah it shouldn't matter. But not making assumptions goes both ways. Sure some closeted individuals may take that route but usually if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, duck paddles like a duck, we give it the benefit of the doubt and see them as a duck, right? |
Not making assumptions absolutely goes both ways, yes! I'm not trying to imply otherwise. Stereotypes in both directions aren't 100% accurate. That's all I'm saying.
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stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 6916
Location: https://womensbasketballdaily.net
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 02/21/17 10:26 am ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| willtalk wrote: |
| Belief often clouds perception. It might be possible that she believed coming into the league that it was predominately homosexual. If she had never been exposed to lesbians before than she might have been very fearful. We fear what we do not understand. That also might have been why she acted so aggressive on court. It might have been a defense mechanism. He attitude created negative reactions from other players which fed into and justified her initial biased attitude. She probably wanted to keep other players at a distance to avoid being hit on. |
She went to Stanford. Either she's so dense that one wonders how she would have gotten into any college- let alone one with Stanford's lofty academic standards- or she's been exposed to lesbians. |
I completely agree. The notion that Candice Wiggins may never have been exposed to lesbians before is ridiculous.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 02/21/17 10:28 am ::: |
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Good to see Currie did not trivialize Wiggins' claims of being bullied
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| If Wiggins perceived her maltreatment to stem from her femininity in a league that "encouraged women to look and act like men in the NBA," if she was bullied because she was "proud to be a woman," then these feelings are real and we cannot discount what she felt. This was her perception |
Last edited by zune69 on 02/21/17 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jap
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 02/21/17 10:33 am ::: |
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Nice reasonable comments by Mo.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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Location: New York City
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| Posted: 02/21/17 10:47 am ::: |
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| jap wrote: |
Nice reasonable comments by Mo. |
Excellent statement by Currie.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 02/21/17 11:16 am ::: |
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This is very sad ... and very disappointing.
I've watched Candice Wiggins play since she was in high school, and she's always been a very good basketball player. She also played with a lot of emotion -- she wanted to win, and did what was necessary to do so.
At the same time, she incessantly complained about foul calls on her, and reports make it clear she was a big-time trash talker.
All that to say she was a very good player, but not a perfect one ...
Her father was Alan Wiggins, a major league baseball player who excelled before cocaine addiction ended his career and eventually killed him, but she went to La Jolla Country Day, a tony private school, and Stanford, an elite institution that is justifiably considered one of the best universities in the country, if not the world.
I would estimate, given her overseas earning, that Wiggins made at $2 million and likely closer to $3 million, in her professional career, and traveled around the world.
All that to say that women's basketball contributed greatly to her getting a superior education and also generated more income for her before the age of 30 than many people make in a lifetime.
And yet this is the message she chooses to deliver ...
Very sad, and very disappointing
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defenseallday
Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 794
Location: Boston
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| Posted: 02/21/17 12:13 pm ::: |
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How long until Conservative "news " outlets pick this up & use it as an "example" of LGBT being "bullies " & "pushing themselves " on people .
She just smeared a whole group of people in the name of selling a book .
The idea that the "reasonable " response is to not " trivialize " her experience when she is clearly either delusional or more likely straight up lying is laughable .
Listening to both sides of the story does not equal everyone is entitled to spew whatever they like without backlash .
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coffy73
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 2601
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| Posted: 02/21/17 12:51 pm ::: |
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| defenseallday wrote: |
How long until Conservative "news " outlets pick this up & use it as an "example" of LGBT being "bullies " & "pushing themselves " on people .
She just smeared a whole group of people in the name of selling a book .
The idea that the "reasonable " response is to not " trivialize " her experience when she is clearly either delusional or more likely straight up lying is laughable .
Listening to both sides of the story does not equal everyone is entitled to spew whatever they like without backlash . |
Yep and those Conservative outlets will never try and look at the other side of things to get a more balanced view on things. Wiggins assumptions will be taken as a blanket truth about the WNBA and lesbian women. Just terrible.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 02/21/17 1:17 pm ::: |
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As many of us have feared since first reading the comments by Candice Wiggins, this is about to become a very popular story among right-wing media. I just noticed this article prominently featured on the website of Rupert Murdoch's rag, the New York Post. I hate to post anything from the Post, but I do so now only to substantiate what we've been expecting.
Headline: "Straight WNBA Star: Lesbian Culture Broke My Spirit." So many women and girls, inside and outside the WNBA, inside and outside women's sports, will be hurt by what Wiggins has done.
http://nypost.com/2017/02/21/retired-wnba-star-i-was-tormented-for-not-being-gay/
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