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miller40



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: 02/03/17 7:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

boom*NNEKA*nneka wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
Jet Jaguar wrote:
On the surface this seems like terrible news. Then you realize, it's just Marianna Tolo.


Exactly. This is a whole lotta "who cares news". She is soooo easily replaceable and the Sparks haven't lost anything here at all.


Hmm dont know about that. Tolo would be a solid defensive option off the bench which would allow Nneka Ogwumike some rest on the defensive end and not get in foul trouble so much..

We all saw that Agler only trusted Lavender off the bench. Her and Tolo would be a solid bench rotation IMO. Lavender for offensive purposes and Tolo focusses on the defensive end


Agreed. Tolo had a very solid season with the Sparks. She is solid to very good defender and an underrated passer from the high post. Her and Lavender worked very well together.

I would think that with Tolo out, this means Gruda is a near-lock to come back, although not sure how European qualifying play would affect her availability. I really hope that if she comes back, Agler uses her more. She can be very useful on both ends of the floor.

I just need to hear that Toliver is coming back!! I am checking my Twitter and this board multiple times throughout the day for updates, but nothing doing. She is so important to the team.


She averaged 5 ppg and 3 rpg in 2015. Not really irreplaceable stats.


mavcarter
#NATC


Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Posts: 5935
Location: Chicago


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PostPosted: 02/03/17 7:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

miller40 wrote:
She averaged 5 ppg and 3 rpg in 2015. Not really irreplaceable stats.


Some people prefer the little things that role players bring as opposed to just looking at stats.



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jewelsongs



Joined: 07 May 2010
Posts: 388



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PostPosted: 02/03/17 8:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tolo seemed like a great fit in LA. I would have preferred her to Gruda.


sigur3



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 6191
Location: Chicago-ish


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PostPosted: 02/03/17 8:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Has Carson re-signed or no? The Sparks Twitter account implied that she'd be back but I'm not seeing anything official.


lynxmania



Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 10697
Location: Minnesota


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PostPosted: 02/03/17 9:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sigur3 wrote:
Has Carson re-signed or no? The Sparks Twitter account implied that she'd be back but I'm not seeing anything official.


Haven't seen anything official but Mo Currie's womensbasketball247 account has her signed with LA today.


ChicagoAnnie



Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 9199
Location: St. Paul, MN


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PostPosted: 02/04/17 1:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Candace teased a Wendy's commercial for Superbowl Sunday... Is she the first W player to be featured in a SB ad?


Michelle89



Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 16464
Location: Holland


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PostPosted: 02/04/17 5:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

miller40 wrote:
boom*NNEKA*nneka wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
Jet Jaguar wrote:
On the surface this seems like terrible news. Then you realize, it's just Marianna Tolo.


Exactly. This is a whole lotta "who cares news". She is soooo easily replaceable and the Sparks haven't lost anything here at all.


Hmm dont know about that. Tolo would be a solid defensive option off the bench which would allow Nneka Ogwumike some rest on the defensive end and not get in foul trouble so much..

We all saw that Agler only trusted Lavender off the bench. Her and Tolo would be a solid bench rotation IMO. Lavender for offensive purposes and Tolo focusses on the defensive end


Agreed. Tolo had a very solid season with the Sparks. She is solid to very good defender and an underrated passer from the high post. Her and Lavender worked very well together.

I would think that with Tolo out, this means Gruda is a near-lock to come back, although not sure how European qualifying play would affect her availability. I really hope that if she comes back, Agler uses her more. She can be very useful on both ends of the floor.

I just need to hear that Toliver is coming back!! I am checking my Twitter and this board multiple times throughout the day for updates, but nothing doing. She is so important to the team.


She averaged 5 ppg and 3 rpg in 2015. Not really irreplaceable stats.


Basketball is not all about offense. The Sparks have enough players that can provide scoring. A good defensive post is very usefull and Tolo could have provided that as she has shown that she can handle guarding the likes of Griner



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"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
Ay Mate



Joined: 12 Nov 2016
Posts: 1280



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PostPosted: 02/04/17 7:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder if the Sparks are going to keep or trade their #4 pick. Agler has absolutely no use for rookies so I expect him to trade the pick for a veteran player that will help his team now. Any trade ideas that would help the Sparks and would be worth a #4 pick?


miller40



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 1334



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PostPosted: 02/04/17 9:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
miller40 wrote:
boom*NNEKA*nneka wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
Jet Jaguar wrote:
On the surface this seems like terrible news. Then you realize, it's just Marianna Tolo.


Exactly. This is a whole lotta "who cares news". She is soooo easily replaceable and the Sparks haven't lost anything here at all.


Hmm dont know about that. Tolo would be a solid defensive option off the bench which would allow Nneka Ogwumike some rest on the defensive end and not get in foul trouble so much..

We all saw that Agler only trusted Lavender off the bench. Her and Tolo would be a solid bench rotation IMO. Lavender for offensive purposes and Tolo focusses on the defensive end


Agreed. Tolo had a very solid season with the Sparks. She is solid to very good defender and an underrated passer from the high post. Her and Lavender worked very well together.

I would think that with Tolo out, this means Gruda is a near-lock to come back, although not sure how European qualifying play would affect her availability. I really hope that if she comes back, Agler uses her more. She can be very useful on both ends of the floor.

I just need to hear that Toliver is coming back!! I am checking my Twitter and this board multiple times throughout the day for updates, but nothing doing. She is so important to the team.


She averaged 5 ppg and 3 rpg in 2015. Not really irreplaceable stats.


Basketball is not all about offense. The Sparks have enough players that can provide scoring. A good defensive post is very usefull and Tolo could have provided that as she has shown that she can handle guarding the likes of Griner


Nevermind.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24326
Location: London


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PostPosted: 02/04/17 11:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
I wonder if the Sparks are going to keep or trade their #4 pick. Agler has absolutely no use for rookies so I expect him to trade the pick for a veteran player that will help his team now. Any trade ideas that would help the Sparks and would be worth a #4 pick?

Typically Agler would obviously want vets, but importantly the #4 pick would only be earning about 50,000. On a team already stuffed with high-paid veterans, keeping a cheaper player who should at least be a vaguely serviceable backup might be the best option.



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zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 8180



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PostPosted: 02/04/17 11:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Toliver signs with washington,Gray would be one of the weaker defensive starting pg's in the league.I can see Penny/Agler offering the #4 to chicago for Vandersloot/Faulkner.Another possibility is Lavender & #4 to Dallas for Sims & #3 pick(Coates)




Last edited by zune69 on 02/04/17 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground


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PostPosted: 02/04/17 12:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I still find it interesting that NY felt a need to core Tanisha Wright. She's playing for the closest thing to her home city (born in NY, HS in Pittsburgh), the Liberty have been a top 3 team the last two years, and she's being offered max salary. You wouldn't think someone in that situation would need to be cored. The only places I can imagine her going are Seattle, where she spent most of her career, and LA to reunite with Agler and chase a championship. If Toliver does end up leaving, and LA could squeeze Wright under the cap, I think Agler would love to have her.



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Michelle89



Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 16464
Location: Holland


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PostPosted: 02/04/17 1:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
If Toliver signs with washington,Gray would be one of the weaker defensive starting pg's in the league.I can see Penny/Agler offering the #4 to chicago for Vandersloot/Faulkner.Another possibility is Lavender & #4 to Dallas for Sims & #3 pick(Coates)


I think Gray is a better defender then Toliver tbh. She has the potential to turn into a decent defender who can guard both the PG or SG. They always had to hide Toliver on the weakest offensive player. Although she improved in the last season



_________________
"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
sigur3



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 6191
Location: Chicago-ish


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PostPosted: 02/04/17 1:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="Michelle89"]
zune69 wrote:
If Toliver signs with washington,Gray would be one of the weaker defensive starting pg's in the league.I can see Penny/Agler offering the #4 to chicago for Vandersloot/Faulkner.Another possibility is Lavender & #4 to Dallas for Sims & #3 pick(Coates)


I think Gray is a better defender then Toliver tbh. She has the potential to turn into a decent defender who can guard both the PG or SG/quote]

Agreed on both points. She made some really nice defensive plays in the Finals in particular.


zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 8180



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PostPosted: 02/04/17 2:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
If Toliver signs with washington,Gray would be one of the weaker defensive starting pg's in the league.I can see Penny/Agler offering the #4 to chicago for Vandersloot/Faulkner.Another possibility is Lavender & #4 to Dallas for Sims & #3 pick(Coates)


I think Gray is a better defender then Toliver tbh. She has the potential to turn into a decent defender who can guard both the PG or SG. They always had to hide Toliver on the weakest offensive player. Although she improved in the last season


Lindsey Whalen has lost one to two steps.Gray does not have the footspeed nor lateral movement to stay in front of the faster/quicker pg's like D.Robinson,S.Diggins,Faulkner,Vandersloot etc.

Just to add on,at one point early in gm 5 of the finals,Agler screamed at his assistant coaches..."If she doesn't want to play,i'm gonna take her out of the game".....He was referring to Gray's poor defense.And if Gray is such a better defender than Toliver,why was she benched in gm 3 against chicago ? (only played 10 minutes)


Michelle89



Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 16464
Location: Holland


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PostPosted: 02/04/17 3:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
If Toliver signs with washington,Gray would be one of the weaker defensive starting pg's in the league.I can see Penny/Agler offering the #4 to chicago for Vandersloot/Faulkner.Another possibility is Lavender & #4 to Dallas for Sims & #3 pick(Coates)


I think Gray is a better defender then Toliver tbh. She has the potential to turn into a decent defender who can guard both the PG or SG. They always had to hide Toliver on the weakest offensive player. Although she improved in the last season


Lindsey Whalen has lost one to two steps.Gray does not have the footspeed nor lateral movement to stay in front of the faster/quicker pg's like D.Robinson,S.Diggins,Faulkner,Vandersloot etc.

Just to add on,at one point early in gm 5 of the finals where Agler screamed at his assistant coaches..."If she doesn't want to play,i'm gonna take her out of the game".....He was referring to Gray and her poor defense.And if Gray is such a better defender than Toliver,why was she benched in gm 3 against chicago ? (only played 10 minutes)


Because she is a young player that has enough to learn still. Agler will always bench young players that make mistake 10 times earlier then veteran players...Trust me ive seen it enough with the Storm.
So comparing her minutes or her benching with Toliver doesnt prove anything.

Toliver cant defend Drob Diggins Faulkner Sloot either so her leaving doesnt all of a sudden turn their PG spot into the one of the weakest.
At this point they are both in the Whalen Bird weaker defenders PG category IMO. But i think when Gray gets in better shape she has the potential to turn into a decent defender that can guard the PG or SG



_________________
"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 8180



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PostPosted: 02/04/17 3:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
If Toliver signs with washington,Gray would be one of the weaker defensive starting pg's in the league.I can see Penny/Agler offering the #4 to chicago for Vandersloot/Faulkner.Another possibility is Lavender & #4 to Dallas for Sims & #3 pick(Coates)


I think Gray is a better defender then Toliver tbh. She has the potential to turn into a decent defender who can guard both the PG or SG. They always had to hide Toliver on the weakest offensive player. Although she improved in the last season


Lindsey Whalen has lost one to two steps.Gray does not have the footspeed nor lateral movement to stay in front of the faster/quicker pg's like D.Robinson,S.Diggins,Faulkner,Vandersloot etc.

Just to add on,at one point early in gm 5 of the finals where Agler screamed at his assistant coaches..."If she doesn't want to play,i'm gonna take her out of the game".....He was referring to Gray and her poor defense.And if Gray is such a better defender than Toliver,why was she benched in gm 3 against chicago ? (only played 10 minutes)


Because she is a young player that has enough to learn still. Agler will always bench young players that make mistake 10 times earlier then veteran players...Trust me ive seen it enough with the Storm.
So comparing her minutes or her benching with Toliver doesnt prove anything.

Toliver cant defend Drob Diggins Faulkner Sloot either so her leaving doesnt all of a sudden turn their PG spot into the one of the weakest.
At this point they are both in the Whalen Bird weaker defenders PG category IMO. But i think when Gray gets in better shape she has the potential to turn into a decent defender that can guard the PG or SG


You just validated my concern about the sparks pg situation if Toliver chooses to sign with washington

"But i think when Gray gets in better shape she has the potential to turn into a decent defender that can guard the PG or SG"

"Because she is a young player that has enough to learn still. Agler will always bench young players that make mistake 10 times earlier then veteran players"

Is Gray ready to be the sparks starting pg ?.......LA needs PG insurance(T.Wright,T.Johnson)


Michelle89



Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 16464
Location: Holland


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PostPosted: 02/04/17 4:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Toliver is going because of cap issues then they cant afford T Wright either. Tameka Johnson was a ball hog and is an even weaker defender then Toliver and Gray



_________________
"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24326
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PostPosted: 02/04/17 4:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Toliver's a poor defender. Even if you think Gray's bad, it's just replacing a different kind of bad.



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zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 8180



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PostPosted: 02/04/17 4:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Toliver's a poor defender. Even if you think Gray's bad, it's just replacing a different kind of bad.


But Toliver is a career 45%/40%/88% shooter.She also had a 2.71 asst/to ratio(best on the team)

You guys are really underrating the importance of Toliver.By the way,who's going to replace Gray as the backup point guard ?


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24326
Location: London


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PostPosted: 02/04/17 4:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Toliver's a poor defender. Even if you think Gray's bad, it's just replacing a different kind of bad.


But Toliver is a career 45%/40%/88% shooter.She also had a 2.71 asst/to ratio(best on the team)

You guys are really underrating the importance of Toliver.

Really not. You're the one making a point of Gray's defense, entirely separate of the offense. We're pointing out that the defensive drop-off really isn't anything like as significant as you're suggesting.



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root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 02/04/17 5:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
If Toliver is going because of cap issues then they cant afford T Wright either.


We don't know that cap space is actually the problem. Everything is speculation. If you think a player is worth it, cap space can be created by cutting bench players and carrying 11 or even 10. Just as likely, it could be Toliver who wants to move on. People assume that winning a championship makes everything alright, but maybe not. We don't know what else is going on behind the scenes.



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Michelle89



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PostPosted: 02/04/17 5:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
If Toliver is going because of cap issues then they cant afford T Wright either.


We don't know that cap space is actually the problem. Everything is speculation. If you think a player is worth it, cap space can be created by cutting bench players and carrying 11 or even 10. Just as likely, it could be Toliver who wants to move on. People assume that winning a championship makes everything alright, but maybe not. We don't know what else is going on behind the scenes.


Yes we dont know anything. We dont even know if she is actually leaving



_________________
"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 8180



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PostPosted: 02/04/17 5:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Toliver's a poor defender. Even if you think Gray's bad, it's just replacing a different kind of bad.


But Toliver is a career 45%/40%/88% shooter.She also had a 2.71 asst/to ratio(best on the team)

You guys are really underrating the importance of Toliver.

Really not. You're the one making a point of Gray's defense, entirely separate of the offense. We're pointing out that the defensive drop-off really isn't anything like as significant as you're suggesting.


Kristi has improved her defense every season since coming to the sparks.To say "Toliver is a poor defender" is not giving her credit for the hard work she's put in to become an above average wnba defender.Toliver can guard pg's better than Gray.However,due to her lack of height,Kristi is overmatched at the sg position.Gray might be a more versatile defender,but Toliver is a better on ball defender.Go back and watch games 1 & 2 of the sky series.Faulkner ran circles around Gray.




Last edited by zune69 on 02/06/17 10:41 pm; edited 5 times in total
Michelle89



Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: 02/04/17 5:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If you think she's an above average defender then that's fine. We cant agree on everything Surprised Wink

But i agree with you that if Toliver goes to another team it will be a very big loss for the Sparks



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"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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