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Germany to ban internal combustion engines

 
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pilight



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PostPosted: 10/09/16 8:20 am    ::: Germany to ban internal combustion engines Reply Reply with quote

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/10/08/germanys-bundesrat-resolves-end-of-internal-combustion-engine/#fc6113331d95

Quote:
Diesel and gasoline-powered vehicles officially are an endangered species in Germany, and possibly all of the EU. This after Germany’s Bunderat has passed a resolution to ban the internal combustion engine starting in 2030



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tfan



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PostPosted: 10/09/16 12:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting that they see this as turning Tesla into "roadkill". The Tesla fanatics seem to mostly think that Tesla has a lead that they will never relinquish to the big automakers.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 10/09/16 3:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In August 2016, Tesla held about 0.2 percent of the car and light truck market in the United States.

Is that supposed to be an insurmountable lead?


tfan



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PostPosted: 10/09/16 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
In August 2016, Tesla held about 0.2 percent of the car and light truck market in the United States.

Is that supposed to be an insurmountable lead?



But it is the leading electric car maker. They see electric cars as rapidly taking over the marketplace and big auto not prepared for it, and think that Tesla can rapidly build up their production capacity. They also look at the Tesla Supercharger Network as giving them a huge edge (even though they built it up to some significance in only a few years).

I personally think that if electric cars took off, the big auto makers would have more of an advantage from their production experience than Tesla has from electric car knowledge. Tesla also "open sourced" all, or most of their patents in the interest of making electric cars gain in popularity faster and driving overall costs down as well as fighting global warming.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 10/09/16 5:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
In August 2016, Tesla held about 0.2 percent of the car and light truck market in the United States.

Is that supposed to be an insurmountable lead?



But it is the leading electric car maker. They see electric cars as rapidly taking over the marketplace and big auto not prepared for it, and think that Tesla can rapidly build up their production capacity. They also look at the Tesla Supercharger Network as giving them a huge edge (even though they built it up to some significance in only a few years).

I personally think that if electric cars took off, the big auto makers would have more of an advantage from their production experience than Tesla has from electric car knowledge. Tesla also "open sourced" all, or most of their patents in the interest of making electric cars gain in popularity faster and driving overall costs down as well as fighting global warming.


Distribution.

The big automakers have huge worldwide car, parts, retail sales, and service distribution infrastructure in place.

I think that if Toyota or Ford or VW/Audi got serious about selling electric cars, they would swamp Tesla almost overnight.


Luuuc



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PostPosted: 03/01/19 12:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So today Tesla released their $35k version of the Model 3.

The revolution is well underway, competition is ramping up, and EV prices are constantly falling.
I don't know that gasoline cars will ever be completely extinct, but I'm pretty sure they'll have niche status pretty soon and that's great news.



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Stonington_QB



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PostPosted: 03/01/19 1:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't see it playing out the way these lawmakers in the EU think it will. The batteries in their current state require a ton of rare metals including cobalt. Even Elok Musk has admitted that one of his main sources for cobalt comes from regimes where forced child labor is a normal everyday reality. They will have to find viable alternatives or else the cost of manufacturing to the masses will skyrocket. I think they will regret this decision one day. We will see.

With a lower demand for fossil fuels, the price of gasoline will continue to drop. Without government intervention, there's no way ICE engines (or Diesel engines for that matter) are going to disappear in our lifetime.


Shades



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PostPosted: 03/01/19 2:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
I don't see it playing out the way these lawmakers in the EU think it will. The batteries in their current state require a ton of rare metals including cobalt. Even Elok Musk has admitted that one of his main sources for cobalt comes from regimes where forced child labor is a normal everyday reality. They will have to find viable alternatives or else the cost of manufacturing to the masses will skyrocket. I think they will regret this decision one day. We will see.

With a lower demand for fossil fuels, the price of gasoline will continue to drop. Without government intervention, there's no way ICE engines (or Diesel engines for that matter) are going to disappear in our lifetime.


When you ban things for the greater good, that’s when human innovation really steps up.
https://metro.co.uk/2016/04/23/scientists-accidentally-work-out-how-they-could-make-phone-batteries-last-forever-5836772/#ixzz46gaNIvJh



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 03/01/19 7:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
I don't see it playing out the way these lawmakers in the EU think it will. The batteries in their current state require a ton of rare metals including cobalt. Even Elok Musk has admitted that one of his main sources for cobalt comes from regimes where forced child labor is a normal everyday reality. They will have to find viable alternatives or else the cost of manufacturing to the masses will skyrocket. I think they will regret this decision one day. We will see.

Regret which decision? Trying something different?



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Stonington_QB



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PostPosted: 03/01/19 8:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
I don't see it playing out the way these lawmakers in the EU think it will. The batteries in their current state require a ton of rare metals including cobalt. Even Elok Musk has admitted that one of his main sources for cobalt comes from regimes where forced child labor is a normal everyday reality. They will have to find viable alternatives or else the cost of manufacturing to the masses will skyrocket. I think they will regret this decision one day. We will see.

Regret which decision? Trying something different?

Forcing the market by decree is trying something?


Luuuc



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PostPosted: 03/01/19 8:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
I don't see it playing out the way these lawmakers in the EU think it will. The batteries in their current state require a ton of rare metals including cobalt. Even Elok Musk has admitted that one of his main sources for cobalt comes from regimes where forced child labor is a normal everyday reality. They will have to find viable alternatives or else the cost of manufacturing to the masses will skyrocket. I think they will regret this decision one day. We will see.

Regret which decision? Trying something different?

Forcing the market by decree is trying something?

Unless changing regulations and taxation rates is somehow irreversible then yeah, it is trying something. (Something I applaud them for, too. It's an obvious move IMO, and one that we will see elsewhere too. If Europe doesn't push the world then China certainly will)



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 03/01/19 11:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
I don't see it playing out the way these lawmakers in the EU think it will. The batteries in their current state require a ton of rare metals including cobalt. Even Elok Musk has admitted that one of his main sources for cobalt comes from regimes where forced child labor is a normal everyday reality. They will have to find viable alternatives or else the cost of manufacturing to the masses will skyrocket. I think they will regret this decision one day. We will see.

With a lower demand for fossil fuels, the price of gasoline will continue to drop. Without government intervention, there's no way ICE engines (or Diesel engines for that matter) are going to disappear in our lifetime.


This is the most even-handed and cogent thing you have ever said on this web site, and, though I am loathe to admit it, I think you might be right. I think there are likely to be unintended and unexpected consequences to a ban like this.


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