| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
 Posted: 09/27/16 2:44 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
| mercfan3 wrote: |
That CNN debate article is interesting, agree with a lot of it, disagree with some. I think the biggest disagreement is on Clinton's patience. She scored a lot of points with a lot of people by just smiling and patiently waiting. She became relatable to a lot of women in the workplace, and Donald screaming about temperament. Her choice in demeanor paid off. |
For most of it, I agree. But I think the debate coach was right, too. If I were prepping her I would have told her to address it once then just smile knowingly with a slight shake of her head or roll of her eyes when he did it again...and again...and again.
I would have given her a scripted line like "Mr. Trump, I would yield the floor to you if I thought you had anything of substance and truth to add to this, but since you have proven you do not, I'll have to ask you to stop interupting me." And then just continue.
The reason being is that she has two major goals, sway the undecideds and energise those of her base that may be luke warm at best with her (likely Sanders supporters). Showing a little spunk in the face of belligerence would have spoken to those voters. And then by just using non verbals to return people to this moment later when he interupted again would have allowed her to seem to both stay above it and show spunk. Could have had best of both worlds.
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19760
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/27/16 5:52 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| justintyme wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
That CNN debate article is interesting, agree with a lot of it, disagree with some. I think the biggest disagreement is on Clinton's patience. She scored a lot of points with a lot of people by just smiling and patiently waiting. She became relatable to a lot of women in the workplace, and Donald screaming about temperament. Her choice in demeanor paid off. |
For most of it, I agree. But I think the debate coach was right, too. If I were prepping her I would have told her to address it once then just smile knowingly with a slight shake of her head or roll of her eyes when he did it again...and again...and again.
I would have given her a scripted line like "Mr. Trump, I would yield the floor to you if I thought you had anything of substance and truth to add to this, but since you have proven you do not, I'll have to ask you to stop interupting me." And then just continue.
The reason being is that she has two major goals, sway the undecideds and energise those of her base that may be luke warm at best with her (likely Sanders supporters). Showing a little spunk in the face of belligerence would have spoken to those voters. And then by just using non verbals to return people to this moment later when he interupted again would have allowed her to seem to both stay above it and show spunk. Could have had best of both worlds. |
True. I think when an opponent is shooting themselves in the foot like that, there are several ways to earn points with the public. 
I'm just saying, from what I've seen, I think her smiling and waiting patiently actually made her relatable to a lot of people. I've seen a lot of women posting "I have my problems with Hillary, but I'm angry for her. I've been there."
Now, those voters would probably choose her anyway, but I do think her choice made her more likable.
_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15739
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/27/16 7:29 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| justintyme wrote: |
| Showing a little spunk in the face of belligerence would have spoken to those voters. |
Ya, a little more of that couldn't have hurt, but honestly? I thought she did well in that regard.
Remember his defense of the class action lawsuit brought against him for discrimination in housing? He countered with something to the effect that they settled out of court with "no admission of guilt". If I was her, I couldn't have resisted putting the lawyer hat and saying something like, "Yes, but 'no admission of guilt' doesn't mean you're INNOCENT either, now does it!? The discrimination was there!"
There were also times, if I were her, I'd have simply said, "I'm not going to dignify that with a response!" However, she just remained quiet at key times, which was probably even wiser. (i.e., "tell us about those 3,000 e-mails?")
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15739
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/27/16 10:06 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Howee wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| Showing a little spunk in the face of belligerence would have spoken to those voters. |
Ya, a little more of that couldn't have hurt, but honestly? I thought she did well in that regard.
Remember his defense of the class action lawsuit brought against him for discrimination in housing? He countered with something to the effect that they settled out of court with "no admission of guilt". If I was her, I couldn't have resisted putting on the lawyer hat and saying something like, "Yes, but 'no admission of guilt' doesn't mean you're INNOCENT either, now does it!? The discrimination was there!"
There were also times, if I were her, I'd have simply said, "I'm not going to dignify that with a response!" However, she just remained quiet at key times, which was probably even wiser. (i.e., "tell us about those 3,000 e-mails?") |
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19760
Back to top |
|
norwester
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 6367
Location: Seattle
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/30/16 12:04 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Just thought this was interesting, since I've mostly based the "untrustworthy" Clinton meme on decades of attacks from her political opponents, versus her gender.
Hillary Clinton’s ‘Angry’ Face
| Quote: |
In other words, these beliefs about men and women are based on stereotypes.
And it turns out that people are highly protective of these stereotypes. When a woman violates her emotion stereotype, people tend to view her as less likable and less trustworthy. |
Also this article, since I've annoyingly and painfully experienced this myself (from well-meaning dudes who I don't even think knew they were doing it):
How could sexism hurt Clinton in the debates? These female high school debaters know.
| Quote: |
| McCarthy once lost a round because a judge said she was not calm enough — even though her male partner is more aggressive than her. (I’ve judged them both before. She’s right.) |
_________________
Don't you know the plural of "anecdote" is "data"?
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/30/16 4:34 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| justintyme wrote: |
And also:
Her name is Alicia Machado.
Her name is Alicia Machado.
Her name is Alicia Machado.
Trump doubled down on this today calling in to Fox and Friends. Taking on Rosie is one thing since she does have an abrasive personality so many Republican-leaning women might well just shrug. But by expanding his targets to more sympathetic women, this type of a meme could really take off. It's something that combines both sexism and racism and could actually create a wedge between him and these voters.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ihO5KootGjY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
Lol. Now he is sending out tweets calling Alicia "disgusting" and making reference to a sex tape (that one, doesn't actually exist, and two, who cares anyways?).
USA Today has endorsed Clinton now, the first time in their history that they have actually endorsed a candidate. Among other things is the fact that Trump is unfit for office.
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9627
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/09/16 4:47 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Trump's surrogates keep talking about him showing contrition tonight, but they have to know that there are probably few politicians in modern history worse prepared or wired to show (or even fake show) contrition. Just his speaking cadence alone will do him in. You have to speak slowly and pause when you are "showing contrition" and Trump doesn't speak slowly, and is low on pauses.
|
|
Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8947
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/09/16 8:03 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Get the popcorn ready and fasten your seat belt.
This is gonna be interesting!!!!!
|
|
Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21929
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/09/16 8:31 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| This is too much. He's making the Trump parodies look restrained.
_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
|
|
scullyfu
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 8860
Location: Niagara Falls
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/09/16 8:32 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Trump is having that sniffing issue again. lets see if he starts fading here soon.
_________________
i'll always bleed Storm green.
|
|
Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8947
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/09/16 8:40 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| scullyfu wrote: |
| Trump is having that sniffing issue again. lets see if he starts fading here soon. |
That is so annoying!!!
|
|
mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19760
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/09/16 8:46 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| I'm getting anxiety every time he lurks behind her. It's creepy.
_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
|
|
Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8947
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/09/16 8:59 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| I'm getting anxiety every time he lurks behind her. It's creepy. |
He's creepy!!
|
|
Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8947
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/09/16 9:52 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Nora O'Donnell just said that the Pence team is "pissed" about Trump's comments.
She got an email from someone in the Pence camp.
|
|
Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21929
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/09/16 10:00 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| It started out promisingly, but by the end of it I was feeling pretty unimpressed with both of them.
_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
|
|
Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8947
Back to top |
|
mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19760
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/09/16 10:07 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Luuuc wrote: |
| It started out promisingly, but by the end of it I was feeling pretty unimpressed with both of them. |
It's impossible for either candidate to look good.
First debate, he didn't have pointed attacks, she got under his skin and could talk about what she wanted to talk about and let him act crazy.
Second debate, he had a pointed debate and tried to drag it into the gutter.
There's no substance in these debates. She's clearly more knowledgable, but she can't talk about that because she's gotta defend "You should go to prison" ten times. He just turns it into a shit show. And the more it looks like a shit show, the better it is for him.
_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
|
|
Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21929
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/09/16 10:28 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| Luuuc wrote: |
| It started out promisingly, but by the end of it I was feeling pretty unimpressed with both of them. |
It's impossible for either candidate to look good.
First debate, he didn't have pointed attacks, she got under his skin and could talk about what she wanted to talk about and let him act crazy.
Second debate, he had a pointed debate and tried to drag it into the gutter.
There's no substance in these debates. She's clearly more knowledgable, but she can't talk about that because she's gotta defend "You should go to prison" ten times. He just turns it into a shit show. And the more it looks like a shit show, the better it is for him. |
Yeah, these "debates" are definitely frustrating from the point of view of wanting to see how the candidates address the issues. Clinton at least starts on topic sometimes before running away on a tangent. From relevance of his answers, one could easily believe Trump didn't even hear the question.
Overall I'd have to say that the biggest loser tonight was the GOP.
_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
|
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8227
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/09/16 10:38 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
 |
|
Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8947
Back to top |
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/09/16 10:57 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
This one wasn't as clear cut as the first debate, but Trump did himself no real favors. His aggressive approach is going to make his supporters happy but will do little to win back what he has lost, and definitely isn't going to swing undecideds.
And it will be interesting to see what Pence does going forward.
It will be interesting to see where the Clinton campaign goes next week. That is what won them the first debate. It should not get lost in the mix that Trump straight up admitted that he hasn't paid income taxes tonight. And his lack of any real contrition, by contjnually trying to pass it off as "locker room" talk and going after Bill is just going to allow Clinton to destroy him in their ads. And those are going to hit home with the people that matter.
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21929
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/09/16 11:07 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I don't understand the outrage about the tax thing.
If the rules say he doesn't need to pay a particular tax, then why should he? Would anyone else pay extra tax than necessary out of the goodness of their heart? Of course not.
If the rules are crap then fix the rules, don't go after the people who are just playing by them.
_________________
Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66920
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/09/16 11:14 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Luuuc wrote: |
I don't understand the outrage about the tax thing.
If the rules say he doesn't need to pay a particular tax, then why should he? Would anyone else pay extra tax than necessary out of the goodness of their heart? Of course not.
If the rules are crap then fix the rules, don't go after the people who are just playing by them. |
We don't know if Trump followed the rules because he's refused to release his tax records.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8947
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/09/16 11:18 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
Nora O'Donnell just said that the Pence team is "pissed" about Trump's comments.
She got an email from someone in the Pence camp. |
Edit:
| Quote: |
| But Trump’s “I disagree” comment was striking, particularly as the fallout from Trump’s controversial 2005 hot mic remarks continues to play out. Various media reports have portrayed Pence as being anguished by Trump’s 11-year-old remarks and perhaps even contemplating removing himself from the GOP ticket – reports that the Trump campaign has strongly denied. |
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/10/09/trump-on-pences-syrian-position-disagree.html
Wow, would that be a first?
|
|
|
|
